"Pay to win"

[panda040]

Getting a single character to level 58 is not "winning" WoW.

That is all.

This depends entirely on what an individual would consider "winning" in WoW.

If someone views getting to max level as "winning" it certainly IS pay to win.

[anon5123]

If someone views getting to max level as "winning" it certainly IS pay to win.

"well if your goal is to just kill 1 raid boss, that means you won the game!"

lmao

[Daymanmb]

Your refusal/inability to acknowledge nuance in a complicated circumstance (see: hundreds of replies here alone) != me white knighting. Not surprising you’d label someone that based on a single topic.

When Cata launched with the first DE, I was able to play at exactly 12am, while box buyers had to wait to pick it up and install. According to your definition, that’s p2w. I was way ahead of my guildies by the time they installed and got through server queues.

Tons of AAA titles on PSN let me buy the CE/Deluxe and start playing a day ahead. Apparently that’s p2w.

Your incredibly narrow definition is convenient to your argument but fails on simple tests.

And before you try to reply with “but…”, just remember: any real money to bypass time sinks is p2w, because apparently context just complicates the conversation for you.

Lolwut? You should look up the definition of non-sequitur while you look up p2w, because youre way off and none of this is relevant..

[Vash The Stampede]

You feeling personally injured by other people being level 58 through the boost is a YOU problem.

I think you're misinterpreting the issue here. It's a game and the playing field is unfair.

It’s created exactly zero problems for the community.

The number on this thread says otherwise.

No apocalyptic botting sprees, or sudden saturation of profession CDs. Just a bunch of Warriors/Mages switching to Hunters/Warlocks.

That's very specific.

Expecting Activision to not do Activision things, pretending Classic was some return to Indie Blizzard, and trying to reshape the definition of p2w is also a YOU issue.

Is this a meme reference?

It’s one thing to be like “I don’t like this”, but this whole “go back to retail/another game” while you refuse to just accept that, despite its faults, it’s an enjoyable game.

Less enjoyable.

You wanna complain? Fine.

Actually yes.

But to take ownership of a game based on what it was like FOURTEEN YEARS and literally hundreds of employees ago is a little too “get off my lawn” to take seriously.

I don't see a problem with this. If Activision wants to ruin their future by catering to more whales then it'll be a short lived profitable experience. After WOTLK nobody will have any reason to continue to play classic, because the community feels that Cataclysm and up is when WoW declined. Fix these issues now or forever file for bankruptcy.

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Not the same thing because you actually need to be logged into the game. The character boost just requires you to spend money and you are IMMEDIATELY level 58.

58 is about 58 times more powerful than level 1. That's simple P2W math.

[panda040]

"well if your goal is to just kill 1 raid boss, that means you won the game!"

lmao

I know, it sounds ridiculous but that is the truth. MMO's have no defined ending, therefore, it's up to the player to determine what "winning" is. For most i would assume its getting BiS and clearing endgame content and or full pvp gear with a high rank. Both of which can be achieved with real life money in retail at this point, sadly.

[TheRevenantHero]

Just because it is your stance doesn't mean it is the definition. It just means your stance is incorrect and you refuse to change it.

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Ironically you need to be logged into the game to activate the Boost.

I love how the only thing you can do is nitpick one part of my comment. Which just further proves that paid character boosts are absolutely p2w.

[Dhrizzle]

Buying any power for money is P2W. That has been my stance since always.

Good try.

So a game that charges you to skip a half hour grind is as much pay2win as one that let's you buy a cash-only amulet that doubles your damage output?

[kail]

So a game that charges you to skip a half hour grind is as much pay2win as one that let's you buy a cash-only amulet that doubles your damage output?

There are varying degrees of P2W and both of your examples could easily apply. Paying to skip is an advantage, especially for an MMO game. Time is a resource in a grindy game like WoW, the boost is pretty much buying extra time over someone leveling to 58.

[Ohvul]

I find wow is P2W while having used the boost and have no problems with it, or desire to see it changed lol

I paid IRL cash to skip a large portion of the game. P2W.

True anti p2wers only play xp cap lvl 20 bgs.

[TheRevenantHero]

So a game that charges you to skip a half hour grind is as much pay2win as one that let's you buy a cash-only amulet that doubles your damage output?

If you're able to use real money to purchase any kind of character power then it's p2w.

[Darkeon]

So a game that charges you to skip a half hour grind is as much pay2win as one that let's you buy a cash-only amulet that doubles your damage output?

Nope, that's why I mentioned that there games with much worse practices than WoW's. Doesn't change the fact that you are buying power and time on WoW. Which is the discussion at hand. (Well, in general, I guess this one is more aimed towards the boost in Classic, but you know what I mean).

[Dhrizzle]

If you're able to use real money to purchase any kind of character power then it's p2w.

So you don't bother distinguishing then? Even if someone's character is actually a lot weaker due to RNG or a lack of time to play, you consider them to be just as much pay-2-win as you would if someone had bought a character with all the top gear and a +50% damage buff that can only be bought for real cash. Even if you can out-compete another character in PvP or PvE you still consider yourself a loser because they saved a couple of dozen hours in the levelling process?

[schwank05]

HA! NO! WoW has many methods to gain power and those two are the most relevant. Factions which can get you gear, and pvp can reward you with gear. Spec and macros also play a huge role. As a Ret Paladin I plan to abuse Seal twisting and spec a certain way that no whale is going to know about. You won't function very well as a Paladin without same basic macros. This is not something you can do on Shadowlands since there's no spec and macros don't give you as much of an advantage as it did in TBC.

As someone who's played on private servers I can tell you I know exactly how it feels to boost to 58 because private servers have done it. Though its a feature everyone got, and not those who payed money for it. Where you think Activision got the idea of giving alliance Paladins Seal of Blood and starting players off at level 58 from? It's a huge advantage that nobody would avoid abusing.


I get it but you're not a special snow flake to get it because you decided to pull out moms credit card. You want to boost to 58 then let everyone do it for free. Even Steven.

You're not listening to why it's making it harder.

1. Harder to group with players to do 1-60 dungeons.
2. People taking my ore because they're too high of a level for mobs to attack.
3. Huge PvP advantage against leveling players because 58 > 35.
4. By the time leveling players hit 70 the boosted guys won't do dungeons with them because they already ran them.
5. Encouraging more bots because those people don't pay $15 per month.
6. Ruining the economy because of said bots.

Yep!

LOL, Moms credit card? I pulled out my own wallet I have paid my own way since I was 14. I started playing when I was 17 My time is more important than $60.00 when It takes me months to level to 58, hell Im only lvl 62.5 currently in BCC because of play time constraints.

[Potatowizard]

That is how the game was back then.

You should adapt to the game, not the other way around.

No one is stopping you from leveling 1-70. No one. Not a single person. Enjoy missing everyone raiding, grinding heroics and the first two tiers and you level.

[TheRevenantHero]

So you don't bother distinguishing then? Even if someone's character is actually a lot weaker due to RNG or a lack of time to play, you consider them to be just as much pay-2-win as you would if someone had bought a character with all the top gear and a +50% damage buff that can only be bought for real cash. Even if you can out-compete another character in PvP or PvE you still consider yourself a loser because they saved a couple of dozen hours in the levelling process?

If you can use real money to buy power for your character, it's p2w. Period. You can do mental gymnastics all you want to try and say it's not p2w but you'll be wrong every time.

[arkanon]

If you can use real money to buy power for your character, it's p2w. Period. You can do mental gymnastics all you want to try and say it's not p2w but you'll be wrong every time.

There is an identical thread running parallel in the 'retail' general sub forum, and some are claiming that because there is an additional step between 'swiping' your card and receiving the 'power', it is NOT P2W. I dont agree with that idea, but what are your thoughts?

[Vash The Stampede]

So you don't bother distinguishing then? Even if someone's character is actually a lot weaker due to RNG or a lack of time to play, you consider them to be just as much pay-2-win as you would if someone had bought a character with all the top gear and a +50% damage buff that can only be bought for real cash. Even if you can out-compete another character in PvP or PvE you still consider yourself a loser because they saved a couple of dozen hours in the levelling process?

Things like RNG and lack of time is not Pay to Win. That's just a L2P moment. If you bought a character then that's against the rules and cheating. The thing about classic WoW is that there's a lot of exploits built into the game that many players abuse to move things along faster. So much so that some players laugh at the idea of a boost when there's already plenty of fast methods to level a character. You boosting will not make you a good player at 58. You're hurting other players because you think your good at playing your class when you'll soon find out that you aren't. Lots of classes have a very high learning curve that gives certain players an edge that other players wouldn't know about.

LOL, Moms credit card? I pulled out my own wallet I have paid my own way since I was 14. I started playing when I was 17 My time is more important than $60.00 when It takes me months to level to 58, hell Im only lvl 62.5 currently in BCC because of play time constraints.

Thanks for clarifying.

There is an identical thread running parallel in the 'retail' general sub forum, and some are claiming that because there is an additional step between 'swiping' your card and receiving the 'power', it is NOT P2W. I dont agree with that idea, but what are your thoughts?

Not sure what idiocy that is but if you're swiping a credit card then you're not doing the player base any good. Lots of developers think that if you use speed boosts then it isn't P2W, but in reality you're just rubbing against what the developer thinks is a very fine line but in reality that line was crossed long ago. I'd even argue that cosmetic micro-transactions is P2W because you're playing a game where the entire point is doing awesome stuff and getting awesome rewards that looks cool. You see a person in T3 gear you know that person did something awesome because everyone else looks like crap in the game. When was the last time you saw the game with unique class specific tier gear? How many unique armor pieces are available on the store?

Clearly micro-transactions had a very negative effect on Activision-Blizzard since they lost 50% of their players during a pandemic where everyone is home playing video games more than ever. Not just WoW but all their games were effected. Clearly the player base isn't happy about it and you have a 39 page thread for classic this thread and a 100 page thread in the retail section. You have YouTube videos on this subject that a lot of people are clearly agreeing with. You can sit here and tell everyone who thinks character boost P2W is just in their head, but 50% of the players have already moved on and don't care what people here post. What mattes in the end is how people feel and people feel it's P2W.

[Nalam the Venom]

No one is stopping you from leveling 1-70. No one. Not a single person. Enjoy missing everyone raiding, grinding heroics and the first two tiers and you level.

Huh?

1-60 was done in pre-patch and 60-70 took like what.. 4 days tops by just questing normally.

[Dhrizzle]

Clearly micro-transactions had a very negative effect on Activision-Blizzard since they lost 50% of their players during a pandemic where everyone is home playing video games more than ever. Not just WoW but all their games were effected. Clearly the player base isn't happy about it and you have a 39 page thread for classic this thread and a 100 page thread in the retail section. You have YouTube videos on this subject that a lot of people are clearly agreeing with. You can sit here and tell everyone who thinks character boost P2W is just in their head, but 50% of the players have already moved on and don't care what people here post.

Where is this 50% figure coming from? Blizz has dropped about 10% since Shadowlands released and Activision reported record high number of users last quarter.

What mattes in the end is how people feel and people feel it's P2W.

I suppose if not buying the boost makes you feel like you are losing I can't argue against your feelings, but that seems more like a you problem.

[TheRevenantHero]

There is an identical thread running parallel in the 'retail' general sub forum, and some are claiming that because there is an additional step between 'swiping' your card and receiving the 'power', it is NOT P2W. I dont agree with that idea, but what are your thoughts?

That's an utterly asinine train of thought and it's just them doing mental gymnastics to avoid saying anything negative about WoW. If it was any other game, it'd be p2w. Somehow it stops being p2w when Blizzard does it, according to some people in these forums.

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Where is this 50% figure coming from? Blizz has dropped about 10% since Shadowlands released and Activision reported record high number of users last quarter.



I suppose if not buying the boost makes you feel like you are losing I can't argue against your feelings, but that seems more like a you problem.

The only "you problem" is on your end, dude. If you can spend real money to buy player power, it's p2w. It's really that simple.