Do you think a talent system revamp is in the future?

[NineSpine]

your projecting really hard as evident by you ignoring things like FF14 having delays after saying it had none.

but here's some more info.



https://www.engadget.com/2014-01-17-...d-history.html
So ya there was an extend ban on new wow accounts from china for the time of that report.

The statement was not "During the period of time when China did not have new accounts, 70% of players didn't make it past level 10". The figure of 70% was given as a general figure, not something related to the temporary chinese account creation issue. You aren't honest and I don't owe your dishonesty anymore of my time.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The statement was not "During the period of time when China did not have new accounts, 70% of players didn't make it past level 10". The figure of 70% was given as a general figure, not something related to the temporary chinese account creation issue. You aren't honest and I don't owe your dishonesty anymore of my time.

I'm sorry that you don't believe blizzard/FF14 press releases and have to project your dishonesty onto others, but as to the mod note I can no other prove your dishoesnt statements false with actual verifiable facts.

[VinceVega]

Each major talent should have branching paths you can tweak each of those talents in a unique way, balance be damned the game's never going to be fucking balanced and people need to get over it before somebody brings that up.

Agreed. Fuck balance^^

Look at TBC. Moonkins are dogshit and there are still plenty of them.
Only the RTWF groups and top PVP/PVE groups will net to stack.

Well as long as it doesn't get tooo bad.

[Thundering]

At the rate we're going, I think we'll be lucky to see another expansion, let alone big revamps...

they will release now exp since thats extra cash but "free" content will be kept at a minimum and i say "free" due to the monthly sub store ect...

[Falkeshall]

Wow...that is interesting. Could you link the source?

Probably can't link photos of butts on here.

[Unholyground]

Agreed. Fuck balance^^

Look at TBC. Moonkins are dogshit and there are still plenty of them.
Only the RTWF groups and top PVP/PVE groups will net to stack.

Well as long as it doesn't get tooo bad.

The thing is balancing is fine the problem is they hold it as like the ultimate goal in wow and it's never going to happen.

[Wolfrick]

hopefully so. theres barely any decision to be made in regards to talent builds... and havent been able to make hybrids in a long time.

Dont get me wrong you can have different build styles these days but it just seems too forced into... its either AoE build or a single target build, and alot of the talents are just clearly worst in their tier.

Classic has taught me that ultimately our characters have far more freedom to work with (no preset specialization), you dont all need to be the exact same build either... sure there are the meta builds and what performs the best but there are still a few talents you can swap around if someone else has them, more teamwork there.
I played a warrior and we had a warrior dps group in the raid so we all didnt need to have improved battleshout for example, and not everyone needed piercing howl... i bet almost all of us had slightly different builds in that regard but still we were competitive with eachother in dps, gear was the main reason for our dps differences and not talents.
Even fire mages could have one person with improved scorch while the rest do not, i dont know about the rest of their choices tho but all i know is only ONE of them has to put the debuff on and everyone benefits... same with warlocks and their curses for optimum raid dps (although those dont get buffed from talents but the teamwork is there)

Ofcourse classic has its own issues but teamwork and build variety isnt one of them.

I could not agree more!

it is so true what you are saying! amen to that ^^

[Soon-TM]

Yeah there is basically no difference between a priest and a warrior anymore.

I love when people resort to such strawmen, it means that they've basically ran out of arguments. Almost every single dps spec (and even some healing ones!) using some variation of builder/spender gets old really fast, as you could have easily realised if you were arguing in good faith instead of chasing dem interwebz points.

[arkanon]

I love when people resort to such strawmen, it means that they've basically ran out of arguments. Almost every single dps spec (and even some healing ones!) using some variation of builder/spender gets old really fast, as you could have easily realised if you were arguing in good faith instead of chasing dem interwebz points.

A Strawman argument is arguing against a point that the other person is not even making - introducing a NEW argument, and then proving it wrong. This very clearly is absolutely nothing like that, since the person i replied to literally said "all classes feel exactly the same". You on the other hand, HAVE used a strawman by argueing that "almost every single DPS SPEC are using some VARIATION (not the same) of a builder spender". This is NOT what was being discussed at all, the person i quoted said all CLASSES feel exactly the same, not that all DPS SPECS kinda sorta in a way kind of play sort of similar. Even in your reply you acknowledge that it is only SOME (not all) specs, mostly DPS, and even then its just a similar (not the same) resource system.

Let me quote what I replied to again:

Classes all feel the exact same currently.

The reply I made, although clearly sarcasm, was that a Priest doesn't play or feel anything at all like a Warrior. Similarities exist between all classes, and specs, but to claim every class plays or feels exactly the same is disingenuous at best.

[DeathKnightRum]

A Strawman argument is arguing against a point that the other person is not even making - introducing a NEW argument, and then proving it wrong. This very clearly is absolutely nothing like that, since the person i replied to literally said "all classes feel exactly the same". You on the other hand, HAVE used a strawman by argueing that "almost every single DPS SPEC are using some VARIATION (not the same) of a builder spender". This is NOT what was being discussed at all, the person i quoted said all CLASSES feel exactly the same, not that all DPS SPECS kinda sorta in a way kind of play sort of similar. Even in your reply you acknowledge that it is only SOME (not all) specs, mostly DPS, and even then its just a similar (not the same) resource system.

Let me quote what I replied to again:



The reply I made, although clearly sarcasm, was that a Priest doesn't play or feel anything at all like a Warrior. Similarities exist between all classes, and specs, but to claim every class plays or feels exactly the same is disingenuous at best.

Every class has a shield wall, every class has a 1-2 minute damage amp, every class can more or less do the exact same in every scenario. There are 4 classes, ranged, melee, tank, healer

[arkanon]

Every class has a shield wall, every class has a 1-2 minute damage amp, every class can more or less do the exact same in every scenario. There are 4 classes, ranged, melee, tank, healer

This sounds like it comes from someone whos never gone beyond LFR - someone with an EXTREMELY poor knowledge of their own class, let alone the other classes, and how they play. So your argument is that a Warrior plays EXACTLY like a priest?

[DeathKnightRum]

This sounds like it comes from someone whos never gone beyond LFR - someone with an EXTREMELY poor knowledge of their own class, let alone the other classes, and how they play. So your argument is that a Warrior plays EXACTLY like a priest?

Warrior plays exactly the same as every other melee class, priests arent melee

[arkanon]

Warrior plays exactly the same as every other melee class, priests arent melee

Oh right, so you agree with me, that all classes do NOT play the same. Out of interest, do you tend to save up your combo points on your Warrior, or spend them as they come?

You cant just point out some similarities and say "these things are exactly the same" while ignoring countless differences.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Warrior plays exactly the same as every other melee class, priests arent melee

I for one love being able to use all my mobility on my paladin heroic leap and charge make getting around so easy and having an execute? wonderful! I know my warrior fellow's also like having multiple immunity's to deal with all kinds of boss mechanics.

[Alcsaar]

While I'm not any happier with the current expansion(I didn't touch it or classic for 4 months and just dicked around on Swtor out of boredom) I'd like to point out that as long as it makes money it will continue to get expansions. I mean Ultima Online doesn't have a tenth of WoW's subscriber base and it's still getting updates.

Exactly what I was about to say.

Ultima Online and EQ are from the late 90s and these MMORPGs still receive new expansion content to this day, which a tiny fraction of the subscriber base and 5+ years older.

[DeathKnightRum]

I for one love being able to use all my mobility on my paladin heroic leap and charge make getting around so easy and having an execute? wonderful! I know my warrior fellow's also like having multiple immunity's to deal with all kinds of boss mechanics.

You mean like Divine Steed and Hammer of Wrath

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You mean like Divine Steed and Hammer of Wrath

Yes my divine steed that takes me over Hazards Or puts me directly into combat range with no other buttons!

Though I did forget wrath like an idiot, Sure is a good thing I didn't forgot my enh shaman's execute as well!

[arkanon]

I play all games on my PC using Keyboard and Mouse - All games play EXACTLY the same - just a series of button presses and mouse movements / clicks. Starcraft plays EXACTLY the same as Forza which plays EXACTLY like Fifa.

See, when you use ridiculously broad terms, everything is similar. If all you look for is some similarities, thats all you will find, but all classes have countless differences and strengths / weaknesses.

[WowIsDead64]

Title pretty much sums it up.

Classic and BC have had me recently browsing the talent systems though the years. In LK we got glyphs stapled on and Cataclysm was the first big change when the number of available points were squished. Then came MoP where we switched to the proto version of what we have now but you could borrow from each of your class specs fantasy powers. Then finally WoD brought the version we still have today. My point being every few expansions we seem to get something new, I'm wondering if after what's being suspected as an 'interlude' expansion(before some weird changes happen to the wow universe) we aren't due for a different take on talents again.

Problem is - talents are RPG thing, tied to character progression. It's better for leveling, as leveling is integral part of RPG. But Blizzard no longer treat leveling as content. That's why we have borrowed power systems and talents are just perks, that help us to tune our specs for our needs.

[Big Thanks]

History lesson

First in Cataclysm

Some players miss true hybrid builds. (Hybrid in this context means spending near evenly in two trees -- I’m not talking about the more common use of “hybrid” as a tank or healing class.) To be fair, these builds were either not very competitive or were just cherry picking a few powerful talents in order to create something that was likely overpowered, especially in PvP. In other words, the reality of the hybrid build never lived up to the myth. But it’s fair to say that it’s impossible now to have a hybrid build, and we understand some players want them back.

Then the ultimate "surrender" in MOP

Look, we tried the talent tree model for seven years. We think it’s fundamentally flawed and unfixable. We know some of you have faith in us that someday we’ll eventually replace all of the boring +5% crit talents with interesting talents and give you 80 talent points that you can spend wherever, and that the game will still remain relatively balanced and fun. We greatly appreciate your faith, but we fear it is misplaced. It’s not a matter of coming up with enough fun mechanics, which is challenging but ultimately doable. The problem is the extreme number of combinations. When you have such a gigantic matrix, the chances of having unbeatable synergies, or combinations of talents that just don’t work together is really high. That’s not lazy design. That is recognizing how math works.

So given that we don’t think it’s humanly possible to have 40-50 fun, interesting and balanced talents in a tree, the alternative is to continue on with bloated trees that have a ton of inconsequential talents that you have to slog through to get to the fun stuff. A lot of you guys have stuck with us for years, continue to play regularly, and still love World of Warcraft. You are the reason we’re still making this game. We think you deserve better, and we think we can do better.

Have fun reading the entire thing Here:

CATACLYSM
https://pt.wowhead.com/news=190220.2...ee-post-mortem
and
MOP
https://pt.wowhead.com/news=198422/d...e-talent-trees