KGB Hijacks Flight to Arrest Journalist.

[jonnysensible]

Dude, the actual fuck?!

why not be honest. do we want a dictator in Belarus, no. His removal is a policy goal. Full scale cyber fuckery and less that direct warfare should be on the table (as most warfare between regional powers seems to be). Pressure people around him to remove him, use the legitimate opposition to put people on the street (they already are). No need for shooting just degrading through every means necessary.

[Bakis]

Interms of recent events.
It's like history in Northern Ireland didnt happen. Why not do a march through you oponents hoods. I mean, nothing can go bad, rite? Rite?

[Shalcker]

What would it take for you to stop defending a fake bomb threat? And the important part is - pilots could not contact Ryanair, as opposed to what you, IIRC, said. They talked only with Minsk.

Yes, this part was clarified by transcript.

Let's also try to avoid an obvious insult to our intelligence by saying that "Ryanair was not picking up", shall we?

There are no mention of RyanAir saying that "we had no incoming calls at the time" in the article, so even though it is unlikely so far this point remains uncontested.

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why not be honest. do we want a dictator in Belarus, no. His removal is a policy goal. Full scale cyber fuckery and less that direct warfare should be on the table (as most warfare between regional powers seems to be). Pressure people around him to remove him, use the legitimate opposition to put people on the street (they already are). No need for shooting just degrading through every means necessary.

You understand that internet is two-way, and Belarus should have enough expertise to engage in same thing?

It's not nukes, everyone with IT industry can respond in kind.

[Forogil]

Yes, this part was clarified by transcript.

No, the incomplete transcript only has the pilots asking the ATC to contact Ryanair HQ (I think), but the ATC does not say that Ryanair HQ did not answer the phone. The transcript never would've told the entire story - as it was only ATC-pilot communication, but now once more see that it is missing some communication that the pilots had with the ATC - i.e., it is a partial transcript.

It is hinted at in the statement from Belarus government "Before this, the Minsk ACC Supervisor tried several times to call the representative office of Ryanair in Lithuania using the phone number provided by the aircraft crew, but he could not manage to contact any of the airline representatives."
but it is certainly not in the transcript - http://caa.gov.by/ru/news-ru/view/1-203/
There are also two gaps in the transcript, one about 90 s gap before "Pilot:09:47:12: RYR 1TZ we are declaring an emergency MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY RYR 1TZ.".

And if we look back in this thread we see people pushing the lie that the pilots contacted Ryanair HQ and then decided to divert, after yelling about this incomplete transcript.

All to cover for Belarus hijacking a plane flying between two EU-countries.

[Shalcker]

No, the incomplete transcript only has the pilots asking the ATC to contact Ryanair HQ (I think), but the ATC does not say that Ryanair HQ did not answer the phone. The transcript never would've told the entire story - as it was only ATC-pilot communication, but now once more see that it is missing some communication that the pilots had with the ATC - i.e., it is a partial transcript.

Possible, but we don't have transcript or recording from RyanAir side so far to confirm that.

It is hinted at in the statement from Belarus government "Before this, the Minsk ACC Supervisor tried several times to call the representative office of Ryanair in Lithuania using the phone number provided by the aircraft crew, but he could not manage to contact any of the airline representatives."
but it is certainly not in the transcript - http://caa.gov.by/ru/news-ru/view/1-203/
There are also two gaps in the transcript, one about 90 s gap before "Pilot:09:47:12: RYR 1TZ we are declaring an emergency MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY RYR 1TZ.".

There is no need for them to constantly talk, so gaps are natural; in-cabin talk could happen at that time.

The only part about communications seems to be this:
Pilot:09:34:49: Radar, RYR 1TZ.
ATC: RYR 1TZ.
Pilot: Could you give us frequency for (unreadable) company so that we would be able to (unreadable).
ATC: RYR 1TZ say again what frequency do you need.
Pilot: We just need to quawk with the operation of the company, if there any frequency for that (unreadable).
ATC. Do you need RYR operation frequency?
Pilot: That is correct 1TZ.
ATC: Standby please.
ATC: RYR 1TZ ,Standby please
Pilot: Standing-by.
Pilot:09:39:30: RYR 1TZ Any adverts?
ATC: RYR 1TZ Standby, waiting for the information.
Pilot: Could you say again that I have to call for the airport that authorities ...(unreadable) to divert to..

and this
ATC: 09.42.49: RYR 1TZ we have ground stuff frequency for Vilnius 131.750
Pilot. 131.75 and we have contact...(unreadable).

And if we look back in this thread we see people pushing the lie that the pilots contacted Ryanair HQ and then decided to divert, after yelling about this incomplete transcript.

That was made before we have seen a transcript, based on media claims at the time.

Just like people claiming interception by fighter jet forcing them down, which proven to be wrong.

[Mayhem]

Today is obviously not the metric to measure this by. To get to the French Republic from Loius XIV. France had to go through Napoleon, too.

The problem is obviously "by the West". We should stop paying them any aid or interacting with these regimes and let their countries blow up in civil war to cleanse themselves. That's the only known method to work as we have seen in almost every country in Europe at some point in history. They have to have the opportunity to fuck themselves up big time before they realise how to do it right. As long as we keep "saving" them from the worst outcomes, they'll never change to anything that could be called a decent contributor to the global community.

You know, unless they have a robust democracy already in place I think you are right. It's awful and somewhat discouraging but there are countries that are real examples of what you're saying, like, right now.

[Slant]

You know, unless they have a robust democracy already in place I think you are right. It's awful and somewhat discouraging but there are countries that are real examples of what you're saying, like, right now.

And even if they have robust democracies, some may still fall back. Even in Europe we're in danger of devolving. Our liberties and the democratic principles that enable our liberal societies are in danger of being corrupted every day.

Constant vigilance is the price we pay for our freedom. Picard was absolutely right. Or is going to be.

[Cringefest]

Dude, the actual fuck?!

Why are you surprised? That's what we do.

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why not be honest. do we want a dictator in Belarus, no. His removal is a policy goal. Full scale cyber fuckery and less that direct warfare should be on the table (as most warfare between regional powers seems to be). Pressure people around him to remove him, use the legitimate opposition to put people on the street (they already are). No need for shooting just degrading through every means necessary.

Afterall, it worked so well in Ukraine!

[Gorsameth]

Afterall, it worked so well in Ukraine!

So.. your blaming the EU for Russia invading the Crimea as aswell as instigating and perpetuating a civil war?

[Cringefest]

So.. your blaming the EU for Russia invading the Crimea as aswell as instigating and perpetuating a civil war?

I already got an infraction for off topic. I was responding tongue in cheek to what someone said. I'm not planning to start an off topic discussion.

[Easo]

Yes, this part was clarified by transcript.

There are no mention of RyanAir saying that "we had no incoming calls at the time" in the article, so even though it is unlikely so far this point remains uncontested.

Do you again have reading issues?

Michael O'Leary said the pilot tried to seek advice from the airline, but was given false excuses by officials that Ryanair was not answering the phone.

Fucking ATC lied. Which, I am pretty sure, is actually the first case ever. All that talk about Bolivian president and the couple other forced landings - ATC never did something like that during those cases.

Why are you surprised? That's what we do.


Afterall, it worked so well in Ukraine!

I do not follow conspiracy theories, nor I really wanna go back into history to 60ties/70ties. Times change (except in Russia).
It was not done in Ukraine, unless you are buying into Russia's bullshit.

why not be honest. do we want a dictator in Belarus, no. His removal is a policy goal. Full scale cyber fuckery and less that direct warfare should be on the table (as most warfare between regional powers seems to be). Pressure people around him to remove him, use the legitimate opposition to put people on the street (they already are). No need for shooting just degrading through every means necessary.

You basically actually just said "do the shooting"... I would not care if Lukash would be shot (after all, he loves the death penalty and he likely did order killings of certain people), but fucking organized coup from outside would fuck everything up. Want Russia to actually intervene with force?

[Shalcker]

Do you again have reading issues?

Fucking ATC lied. Which, I am pretty sure, is actually the first case ever. All that talk about Bolivian president and the couple other forced landings - ATC never did something like that during those cases.

I see no transcript or recording that would support his viewpoint. Once it will be available maybe i'll change my opinion.

In Bolivian case it was ministers who lied (and were lied to by US that Snowden was on board), not ATC who just relayed the information.

...though in case of Belarus you could also see it as just ATC relaying information given to them by special services.

[Easo]

I see no transcript or recording that would support his viewpoint. Once it will be available maybe i'll change my opinion.

In Bolivian case it was ministers who lied (and were lied to by US that Snowden was on board), not ATC who just relayed the information.

...though in case of Belarus you could also see it as just ATC relaying information given to them by special services.

You want me to trust Mister 80%? Ahahhahahaa
P.S.
You always have excuses, but that's to be excepted. Still annoying though.

[Shalcker]

You want me to trust Mister 80%? Ahahhahahaa

Both sides have incentive to lie and cover their own ass.

[Easo]

Both sides have incentive to lie and cover their own ass.

Ahh, now it is both sides. Fuck man, agitka is your forte, I guess.

[Forogil]

Possible, but we don't have transcript or recording from RyanAir side so far to confirm that.

That Belarus got information about who to contact from the plane, and said that Ryanair HQ didn't pick up the phone has been confirmed by both sides.

Ryanair boss said that in his testimony https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57480835
Belarussian government also stated that when releasing the incomplete transcript (they even say that it is an extract of communication) http://caa.gov.by/ru/news-ru/view/1-203/ - it even says that the aircraft crew gave the ATC the phone number to contact.

But the incomplete transcript released by Belarus (who hijacked a plane flying between two EU-countries), leaves out any mention of Ryanair HQ not answering the phone.

There is no need for them to constantly talk, so gaps are natural;

Gaps are natural, gaps followed by "MAYDAY" stand out - especially if we know that something is missing in the communication.

That was made before we have seen a transcript, based on media claims at the time.

Which part about after was unclear?

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Both sides have incentive to lie and cover their own ass.

Belarus, and some related entities, don't care that they lie - the goal isn't to convince anyone, but to spread doubt - and if people think that everything are lies that's also fine for them.

[Shalcker]

That Belarus got information about who to contact from the plane, and said that Ryanair HQ didn't pick up the phone has been confirmed by both sides.

Ryanair boss said that in his testimony https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57480835
Belarussian government also stated that when releasing the incomplete transcript (they even say that it is an extract of communication) http://caa.gov.by/ru/news-ru/view/1-203/ - it even says that the aircraft crew gave the ATC the phone number to contact.

We don't have recording or transcript from RyanAir side to see how exactly inability to contact their HQ was communicated by ATC, or how exactly that phone number was communicated (and if it was the right number).

Gaps are natural, gaps followed by "MAYDAY" stand out - especially if we know that something is missing in the communication.

Sure, they can stand out. It could be something skipped in transcript - or it could be result of several minutes of in-cabin discussion.

Which part about after was unclear?

How exactly do you see that part with being given Vilnus frequency?
Did they use it to contact Vilnus there before going with Mayday?

[Forogil]

We don't have recording or transcript from RyanAir side to see how exactly inability to contact their HQ was communicated by ATC, or how exactly that phone number was communicated (and if it was the right number).

The point, in case you forgot, is that see that it is missing from the transcript, showing that the transcript is incomplete.

How exactly do you see that part with being given Vilnus frequency?

The point, in case you forgot, was that people claimed that the pilots did in fact contact Ryanair HQ (in unknown ways) even after the transcript was released.

Obviously it doesn't make sense, but as previously stated the goal for Belarus, and their ilk, isn't to convince anyone - but to make people doubt the truth of everything - including the fact that Belarus hijacked a plane between two EU-countries.

[Shalcker]

The point, in case you forgot, is that see that it is missing from the transcript, showing that the transcript is incomplete.

As you point out you could already have said that from Belarussian comments before released transcript; all you get from bbc article is additional framing by RyanAir.

The point, in case you forgot, was that people claimed that the pilots did in fact contact Ryanair HQ (in unknown ways) even after the transcript was released.

Who exactly did they contact on that given frequency?

[jonnysensible]

Afterall, it worked so well in Ukraine!

i mean it did work well in Ukraine. Wheres Yanukovych right now?

lukashenko and his kids need running out.