Blizzard created the perfect storm

[ONCHEhap]

This. The only difference is that now WoW is so bad that people are likely to jump ship and never look back (whereas when Warhammer AoR and LotRO and STO and SWTOR came out, WoW was still good enough that people switched back)

Indeed. If back when LotRO came out,WoW was in the state where it is today,there would have been an actual WoW killer,but that's just not how it was when dozens of "WoW killers" came out every year.
However the ones mentioned by the OP don't look any good either so I don't think they'll matter either

[AcidicSyn]

Is it silly? Please dont misunderstand the post. Its not another "IS WOW DYING" shitpost.

The facts are ex Blizzard employees are making a game that can be literal shit, but the hype train is taking off precisely because they are ex Blizzard devs who are adored.

Then we have Riot games who are obviously famous making an MMO

Then Ashes

Then Amazons New World

Im not saying any ONE of these will be the WoW killer, because some of us will hate Ashes but love Palia while others hate Palia and Ashes but love New World.

Im suggesting that these will collectively have an adverse financial impact on Blizzard.

I think it is a bit silly yes. Though I'm not trying to attack your opinion, just disagreeing with it. It didn't come off as a wow is dying shitpost to me though, I do genuinely believe that you believe these games can collectively hurt Blizzard; and hey, there's every possibility that your predictions are entirely accurate, and if that comes to pass I'll eat my crow with a smile. Right now though? I just don't think the past supports your prediction. I've been wrong before though, plenty of times. /shrug

EDIT: Oh, and I also think the kind of game matters. I'm not familiar with the other examples, but in the case of Palia, I feel like that's comparing fruit pies and engine grease. I don't think Palia will appeal to the kinds of players that make any sizable chunk of WoWs playerbase, not unless Blizzard decided to add stuff like (proper) player housing to the game.

[Acidbaron]

I'm returning for 9.1 because of the new guild/raid group i found that's awesome. I have Lost Ark on my playlist, and that's going to come in autumn. Hope i'm done with 9.1 before it, so i can just jump into it full time, and then see if i still want to return to WoW.

That is good that would be about the only reason for me to do so, sadly real life gets in the way and so i cannot commit my evenings as i used to. So i await Amazons title as the lost ark probably wont be released here due to lootboxes. I even went as far as reconsidering to return to Runescape despite having given away a lot of my stuff or sold it back in the day or else i would be a billionaire in there but the character and progression remains but it is a grind to get lost in.

[Mojo03]

The game wouldn’t be so bad if they didn’t only very heavily steer you towards only doing the current raid tiers, expansion dungeons, and pvp (which gets neglected) for gear that becomes worthless once the next patch hits and instead added new various content, gave it proper updates, and kept it in the game.

If they’re going to go all out on being a lobby dungeon/raid/PvP simulator, which they basically have, then do it right. There is 70+ dungeons and 20+ raid in the game that are essentially in the trash for no reason. Why?

I genuinely can’t see this game prospering beyond it’s rabid hardcore base in the modern world of stuff like game pass with a subscription. It looks like a joke and it is.

[Acidbaron]

Is it silly? Please dont misunderstand the post. Its not another "IS WOW DYING" shitpost.

The facts are ex Blizzard employees are making a game that can be literal shit, but the hype train is taking off precisely because they are ex Blizzard devs who are adored.

Then we have Riot games who are obviously famous making an MMO

Then Ashes

Then Amazons New World

Im not saying any ONE of these will be the WoW killer, because some of us will hate Ashes but love Palia while others hate Palia and Ashes but love New World.

Im suggesting that these will collectively have an adverse financial impact on Blizzard.

A lot of people stick with WoW due to their social ties in the game or the sunken cost fallacy having issues wanting to start over anew elsewhere.
For all its flaws the PvE instanced content is still entertaining in WoW if you have a solid pre-made what goes back to social ties.

The game is also showing its age, but there is also the possibility that things might change in design philosophy although i find that unlikely as major drops in the player base never really did that and revenue is still at an all time high.

[Lex Icon]

The game wouldn’t be so bad if they didn’t only very heavily steer you towards only doing the current raid tiers, expansion dungeons, and pvp (which gets neglected) for gear that becomes worthless once the next patch hits and instead added new various content, gave it proper updates, and kept it in the game.

If they’re going to go all out on being a lobby dungeon/raid/PvP simulator, which they basically have, then do it right. There is 70+ dungeons and 20+ raid in the game that are essentially in the trash for no reason. Why?

I genuinely can’t see this game prospering beyond it’s rabid hardcore base in the modern world of stuff like game pass with a subscription. It looks like a joke and it is.

that would be the only way i'd be able to enjoy that content. the thought of running 1 raid over and over for months until a new one pops up just doesn't work for me. but i think the people into that stuff want it the way it is. at least when it comes to WoW. in other games having raids stay relevant throughout seems to work fine.

[neik]

and other game developers are taking advantage of it.

It just dawned on me while I was sat here, there doesn't have to be a singular WoW killer, with companies like Amazon, Riot, and Singularity 6 (and more) coming out with their own MMO's. All that has to happen is these developers individually absorb a chunk of the current WoW base. Blizzard essentially will compete with several major viable companies, instead of just 1 at a time when they are failing miserably. its just a matter of time.

Does competition breed excellence?

Why wouldn't people want to play different games when blizzard corporate mongrels are incapable of delivering anything truly meaningful.

P.S WoW killer is an illusion, the provocateurs who keep invoking it, are expecting that there will be some magical game where blizzard will be forced to shut down the servers and quit the wow's development altogether, that's not gonna happen. WoW has been already killed multiple times by every single person who quit the game to play something else.

[Soon-TM]

if any of these games end up being successful Blizzard will simply take the systems or mechanics that make those games stand out and add them to WoW. so yes? also not really? eh?????

I wouldn't be so sure. Ion seems extremely reluctant to adopt e.g. some of FF14's mechanics, even if they are working just fine there.

[Daedius]

Competition is always good.

[rhorle]

Im suggesting that these will collectively have an adverse financial impact on Blizzard.

A small blip? Maybe. But nothing in the long run as this has all happened before with new mmo's having massive hype. It isn't something that will impact just WoW either as there are other mmo's on the market that will be impacted just as much as anyone else. It happens. But it is nothing new or really anything to worry about.

[Acidbaron]

I wouldn't be so sure. Ion seems extremely reluctant to adopt e.g. some of FF14's mechanics, even if they are working just fine there.

Ion is very much part of the raiding and competitive PvE scene, i would find it very unlikely that he would be an advocate of adopting FF14 mechanics that have a different content and gameplay focus for the most part in my opinion.

[Ausr]

Hm...we did have data for a long time though. We knew that WoW peeked at 12 million, then went up and down until Blizzard stopped reporting subs.

It just immediately led to "WoW is dying" - even in 2008...because during Classic and TBC the population apparently grew at a much higher rate than in WotLK, some took that as an indication of ppl losing interest and decline.

And it constantly went the way of ridiculous stuff like:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/90/43/e3/9...a678e86e40.jpg

...and most of all ppl using the data to "scientifically" (I am not kidding) proof that WoW will end in 4/2015:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...2#post29402702

Heck, people said WoW was dying during Vanilla and TBC.

[sam86]

Why should blizard care about this though? I'm serious as someone who was a prog raider basically the entire time they played wow it makes sense to go after the casual dollar, 16.99 (or w/e the sub is now) is 16.99 if you play one hour a month or 100.
Further, maybe I'm stereotyping here but a mount collecter or pet battler seems more likely to buy the barded nightmare than a raid logger.

Active subs don't even really matter at this point either because blizzard has shown repeated they can hype up box sales every two years to more than cover the short fall from sub drop.

that's the problem for a mmo game
Imagine that wow from day one was as casual as it is now, with tokens and cash shop, do u see a game like that survive even 10 years?
WoW has an extremely solid core playerbase from pre-cata era, there are ppl invested here in wow over 10 years worth of playing, ppl whose most favorite memory in life is log to Grizzly Hills or Howling Fjord, I know MANY ppl whose most favorite music is from wow, those ppl won't leave wow until wow actually kick them, that simple
And for me wow did 'kick' me in BFA, SL was actually good, but zero updates policy reminds me a lot with WoD sadly
So caring for the cash shop player is very short sight, a guy who get a mount by some $$ is way less likely to stay subbed than someone who got the hc anub mount zero death from ToC (didn't get it, i literally grabbed my friend neck when he got it lucky roll), I'm pretty sure that I gave blizzard way more money than any cash shop player from Legion+ with my subs that rarely stopped beside BFA (BFA is only exp i subbed 1 month only), they should invest in us, loyal players who want to play wow forever, not make a sparkle pony to someone who will pay 10$ today then delete wow

[rhorle]

Imagine that wow from day one was as casual as it is now, with tokens and cash shop, do u see a game like that survive even 10 years?

Yes. Because at the time WoW was the more casual option.

[sam86]

Absolutely. The funny thing is that I could google "TBC killed WoW" and get a reddit post from 2007 - now everything tBC related that shows up is from 2021

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Problem with this is that you try and divide it into two kinds of players as if there is all there is. Either the one who played 16 years or the new guy who buys a mount from the shop.

i don't, i was using an example
there are every type possible, there are ppl who sub and don't play regularly for example, there are ppl who play since start and still bought mounts, i was giving example from those 2 who is better, and generally focus on long play is better

[shise]

All of those games came out in 2011 when wow was on its first downwards trend and people were saying all of the same things rather it be activsion had taken over, ghost crawler was killing the game, every one is moving to X other games, nothing has changed.

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Ah your talking about mmo population, ya that site is complete bull just using made up numbers and then cross referencing them with Reddit.

Ewh no. Aion, AoC came during TBC.

Rift came later sure, but we also had other games in between those 3.

So okay, 2006 to 2011 period or even 2012.

WoW was still at its peak, even if starting to decline. At such early stage you can never tell if it is real decline, and even so, it was still extremely popular and it was only starting to get even more popular in China.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Ewh no. Aion, AoC came during TBC.

Rift came later sure, but we also had other games in between those 3.

So okay, 2006 to 2011 period or even 2012.

WoW was still at its peak, even if starting to decline. At such early stage you can never tell if it is real decline, and even so, it was still extremely popular and it was only starting to get even more popular in China.

All of the games I listed were from 2011, some had huge brand recognition like swtor and dcu others boasted new things unlike other mmos like GW2 all while wow had been losing millions of subs dropping from 12-10. The community was in tizzy about a ton of different things big name content creators were leaving people were coming out of the wood works to say X game would kill wow ect ect.

It was exactly how it is now.

[Ausr]

Absolutely. The funny thing is that I could google "TBC killed WoW" and get a reddit post from 2007 - now everything tBC related that shows up is from 2021

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Problem with this is that you try and divide it into two kinds of players as if there is all there is. Either the one who played 16 years or the new guy who buys a mount from the shop.

Well...I have played since day 1 AND bought the odd mount..also 1 race change. At this point I still wonder what the big deal with the shop (hate) is....as also pretty much all recent mounts are part of a 6 month sub...

Maybe people feel they need to be the protectors of the poor souls that are to feeble to only pay for a month and quit when they have done everything but rather get tricked by evul Bli$$ into a six month sub because of a mount? (which btw ppl can still buy separately if they so desperately need it)

I honestly have zero idea what a "cash shop player" is....given the limited shit that is in there. Handful of pets, handful of mounts. Some services. In what way does Blizzard "care" to them if they exist at all?

I had it on either my old laptop or an old pc, but I had saved a quote from one of the community mods who kept a list from the beginning of WoW every little thing that the community said that killed WoW. So every new trend the community would say "Oh, this killed WoW" or "This game will kill WoW" would be continually added to the list and he would copy/paste it when brought up. It was fairly long by Wrath.

I dunno, I always get a kick out of these topics. They're usually brought up by ex-WoW players who are mad the game didn't explode into deletion when they rage quit or rage quit on the forums so now they're obsessed with WoW even more than they played. If someone does reply to this to say not true, I still play, but I can easily criticize things about the game and where things could improve. I don't need to whine every day on a forum about it or proclaim every new game coming out will kill WoW.

[Baconeggcheese]

Just gonna echo the same thing people have been saying for years, there isn't going to be a wow killer.

If wow dies, it'll be blizzard that kills it.

[kranur]

Well, current mmo's are proof that competition does not breed excellence.

WoW was the odd one that actually took the mmo style and improved it and excelled.

The rest of the companies after it just setteled to copy it and make a quick small buck.

WoW has no need to improve and other companies just settle for small.

The one I feel sorry about and could have competed directly with WoW was Star Wars.