What races should work together or cooperate more ?

[Oneirophobia]

Jinyu and Hozen were basically abandoned after Mists of Pandaria, but both are still allies on respective factions and could use more relevance going forward.

Interestingly, you can see Hozen as active members of the Horde in Zul'dazar. There is a room in the great seal with randomly generated Horde soldiers, sometimes there are Taunka and Hozen in generic Horde soldier gear.

[ravenmoon]

Because Maiev is a character loved by fans with a background in history that shows us a different point of view from Tyrande and Malfurion.
Jarold is the one they shouldn't use ... and luckily they don't.

Sira is a pathetic attempt to give the Horde something cool. But since she's stolen from the Alliance and so badly written she doesn't know Horde.
After that Sira returns to the green role of him. A tertiary character to give Maiev more Background.

You said it.. and this is exactly why they use Khadgar, Jaina, Thrall, Genn, Sylvanas. Why is Sira a terrible character? She's not used or brought out much at all. Instead of creating new opportunities for characters in the appropriate place, they give the roles to well knowns, essentially ensuring no new characters get any meaningful role. They cause those characters to be terrible

Only if you're lucky enough to be a zone focus like Farondis, Thalyssra and Talanji were do you get a full story in your opening. If you were well loved you get used again (like Thalyssra was), but Farondis was also well loved, however he is a crummy alliance night elf, so the horde fan cloud were not singing his praises much.

Now I know some horde players who were really impressed with his story, but alas.. after all that we get Jaina who's got NOTHING, I repeat.. NOTHING to do with Azshara - there. i get it, it's part of the main story line, but let's be frank it's off tangent to the Kul'tiras affair and the horde alliance war. it could have been someone else.

[geco]

You said it.. and this is exactly why they use Khadgar, Jaina, Thrall, Genn, Sylvanas. Why is Sira a terrible character? She's not used or brought out much at all. Instead of creating new opportunities for characters in the appropriate place, they give the roles to well knowns, essentially ensuring no new characters get any meaningful role. They cause those characters to be terrible

Only if you're lucky enough to be a zone focus like Farondis, Thalyssra and Talanji were do you get a full story in your opening. If you were well loved you get used again (like Thalyssra was), but Farondis was also well loved, however he is a crummy alliance night elf, so the horde fan cloud were not singing his praises much.

Now I know some horde players who were really impressed with his story, but alas.. after all that we get Jaina who's got NOTHING, I repeat.. NOTHING to do with Azshara - there. i get it, it's part of the main story line, but let's be frank it's off tangent to the Kul'tiras affair and the horde alliance war. it could have been someone else.

What history does Sira have?
I get very angry. I turn Horde and scream nonsense making the Forsaken look like idiots?

Cordana was an interesting character who had a true story. Sira didn't have it and her story from Her Forsaken is garbage. The only thing that really matters in her story is her interactions with Maiev, because they let us see that Maiev loves her sisters very much, even if many say no.

SireForsaken is a nefarious character.
SiraAlive had no history.

--
PS: And if the story does not focus on a character, that character cannot have a real development.

[ravenmoon]

What history does Sira have?
I get very angry. I turn Horde and scream nonsense making the Forsaken look like idiots?

Cordana was an interesting character who had a true story. Sira didn't have it and her story from Her Forsaken is garbage. The only thing that really matters in her story is her interactions with Maiev, because they let us see that Maiev loves her sisters very much, even if many say no.

SireForsaken is a nefarious character.
SiraAlive had no history.

--
PS: And if the story does not focus on a character, that character cannot have a real development.

She ha little to no character cos they don't build on it. Look at Jarod -- what's he doing? Wasn't he leader of the wardens after the Val'Sharah Black Rook hold line ended?

But he vanishes to be replaced by Maiev in the Cathedral of Eternal night.

Wondered why the Sisterhood of Elune is not commanding the quest lines of 7.2 Broken shore? Mistake? no, they were originally the quests the zone was written around.. it was changed. Changed to show more legion and changed so that class order halls were given the limelight. What they should have dozen was both.. they should have shown the Sisterhood of Elune going to each class order hall, and given some background lore of their attachment to the area. A sister should have been with each order hall operation, lending a hand and giving some lore tidbits.

Where are they in the actual Cathedral.? It's their most holy temple.. Illidan got a big role their at least.. and the encounters reflect the night elves as they should.. but the story just avoids them.


Only with night elf stuff this happens.. they wouldn't dare give another race spotlight on human stuff or even gnome stuff but they always do this with night elf stuff. Tyrande and Dejanha reunion? Even Tyrande in Suramar was lame, she's bragging more about the alliance than her goddess.. but you do realise they swapped Vereesa our for Tyrande right when 7.1 was re-written because the Nightborne were going to go horde. (it wasn't announced yet but the decision was made and)

It would have been so cool for Tyrande to have a separate arc, dashing into bringing the light and hope of Elune to oppressed Nightborne crying out for help under the legion's operation and releasing the vengeance of Elune against the Legion and any loyalists trying to enforce. What a chance to show off how Nightwell power and all was useless against this Moon and Starlight godling vaporising her foes with the fury of her goddess and satiating the pangs of longing with soft soothing grace of starlight..

Regardless of whether they chose to join the night elves or not, it would have been epic, and would have been the perfect cause to establish lore for Nightborne priests - loyal first to Elune, then her people, then the horde. So many cool opportunities for the setting missed.. too busy trying to show off Liadrin and Khadgar and vilanise Tyrande. what a shame.

Despite all that legion had many good moments, I will remember it fondly. It was my best world of warcraft expansion.

[geco]

She ha little to no character cos they don't build on it. Look at Jarod -- what's he doing? Wasn't he leader of the wardens after the Val'Sharah Black Rook hold line ended?

But he vanishes to be replaced by Maiev in the Cathedral of Eternal night.

Because the leader of the wardens is Maiev. Jarold does not really have a prominent position in the Kaldorei army.
Kanack put it as his merry sue. But there does not pass.
Because 1 is a merry sue and two has no real role. It's more take a breath. What "flaw Jarold has to be a deep character." It's like Anduin, his fault is being boring XD.
(Jarold as leader of the wardens is like when they say that calia is "Leader of the renegades")

About the rest. So that's what I say. Legion conscientiously tries not to be a Kaldorei Story.
It's like Drenor isn't Trall in the slightest or Jaina isn't in her realm.

That's what they did.
And aside there was room to put a kaldorei story and aside a story of the Blood Elves.
But instead they put a generic Huamana Story.

Which brings us to what I always said. Suramar is the content of the Blood elves, not the Kaldorei. The only thing that is similar to the Kaldorei is that they are Violets.

----
PS: to give a better example. That Blizzard says that Jarold is the leader of the Wardens is like when he said that Tyrande "had already taken revenge".

[ravenmoon]

Because the leader of the wardens is Maiev. Jarold does not really have a prominent position in the Kaldorei army.
Kanack put it as his merry sue. But there does not pass.
".

Jarod leads the Wardens after the quests in Black rook Hold - please, just do them, you'll see.

He was also the commander and general of the kaldorei army for the War of the Ancients in the final pushes into Zin'Azshari. Supposedly quite legendary, at least before the WotA knaak rewrite changed the story.. he still led the armies in that, but the original account took place over a span of 250 years, and the Knaak version over 2?

But if you do the Hyjal cata quests..for those who don't read, you are told he was the general of the kaldorei and they try to get him to come back to help.

[geco]

Jarod leads the Wardens after the quests in Black rook Hold - please, just do them, you'll see.

He was also the commander and general of the kaldorei army for the War of the Ancients in the final pushes into Zin'Azshari. Supposedly quite legendary, at least before the WotA knaak rewrite changed the story.. he still led the armies in that, but the original account took place over a span of 250 years, and the Knaak version over 2?

But if you do the Hyjal cata quests..for those who don't read, you are told he was the general of the kaldorei and they try to get him to come back to help.

Ok I look for it in a Future.
But my point stands.
Their position was given to Shandris.
And back around Jarold gave his sister a hand.

I mean, the interesting thing about Jarold is in a story that they never told us.

And we follow the echo. What can you tell us about Jarold? What "defect" has to overcome what is his story? "Being Op"?
I mean, the only background that Jarold has is that he has a Sister and that is where his depth goes.

And let's face it, he has a relationship similar to that of Dog and Master.

PS: What's the point of reading non-cannon books in the Game?

[ravenmoon]

Ok I look for it in a futuero.
But my point stands.
But then they put the Booth for Shandris.
And back around Jarold gave his sister a hand.

I mean, the interesting thing about Jarold is in a story that they never told us.

And we follow the echo. What can you tell us about Jarold? What "defect" has to overcome what is his story? "Being Op"?
I mean, the only background that Jarold has is that he has a Sister and that is where his depth goes.

And let's face it, he has a relationship similar to that of Dog and Master.

Yeh.. Jarod gave his sister a hand and his sister tells him he should now lead the Wardens.. but then suddenly reappears as a warden to chase Illidan through the Cathedral's upper levels for the titan artifact.. hmmm..

Shandris is a nice touch to use, a lot of people were hoping to see more of her.

you see all these people... Shandris, Suramar, Val'shaarh, Black Rook hold, Moonguard, Highborne - they all come form the war of the Ancients trilogy that starts the adventure of the Daranssian heroes -this is why for night elf fans who actually know the lore, and don't just play WC3, Broken isles has more value than Hyjal, Zin'Azshari more value than Ashenvale.

But both places are heavily associated with the night elves. Hyjal and Ashenvale are famous because they feature in the game that introduces the night elves... but people play the game, they don't read the book, so the book that was written to accompany the WC3 release (though it showed up a bit later at least in time for wow, Metzen explains it had delays)), shows the real origin. If like me you read that book, you would attach more Kaldorei association value to Suramar, Val'sharah, Zin'Azshari, the Well of Eternity, than you would to Hyjal or Ashevnvale. Even though they show up in the game much later ( we had thought they were at the bottom of the ocean after the sundering.)

[geco]

Yeh.. Jarod gave his sister a hand and his sister tells him he should now lead the Wardens.. but then suddenly reappears as a warden to chase Illidan through the Cathedral's upper levels for the titan artifact.. hmmm..

That I am sure does not happen.
And if it happens, it will be in any case that Maiev leaves him in charge for a while.

Shandris is a nice touch to use, a lot of people were hoping to see more of her.

you see all these people... Shandris, Suramar, Val'shaarh, Black Rook hold, Moonguard, Highborne - they all come form the war of the Ancients trilogy that starts the adventure of the Daranssian heroes -this is why for night elf fans who actually know the lore, and don't just play WC3, Broken isles has more value than Hyjal, Zin'Azshari more value than Ashenvale.

But both places are heavily associated with the night elves. Hyjal and Ashenvale are famous because they feature in the game that introduces the night elves... but people play the game, they don't read the book, so the book that was written to accompany the WC3 release (though it showed up a bit later at least in time for wow, Metzen explains it had delays)), shows the real origin. If like me you read that book, you would attach more Kaldorei association value to Suramar, Val'sharah, Zin'Azshari, the Well of Eternity, than you would to Hyjal or Ashevnvale. Even though they show up in the game much later ( we had thought they were at the bottom of the ocean after the sundering.)

What book?
Wota? Kanack's Books?
Those who have Jarold as a mery sue?

[Lodreh]

Actually humanity has not even grown beyond petty racial/religist/nationalistic squabbles in its entire history and you want that to happen in game? LMAO

Try picking something that makes more sense.

In Heroic Fantasy we are suppose to be better... achieve higher ideals... but most importantly a game should be an escape from the Real Life struggles not a mirror of them.

[Rendark]

Goblins and Gnomes should team up more. What would have been really cool is if Mechagnomes became a horde allied race.

[Selastan]

Draenei and Blood Elves. The two most advanced races on Azeroth need to collaborate on some projects. Could create some killer magic shit. Just look at what the Blood Elves managed to do by reverse engineering Draenei/Naaru tech they captured. Imagine if the experience of the dranei and the brilliant minds of the elves worked together.

[ravenmoon]

That I am sure does not happen.
And if it happens, it will be in any case that Maiev leaves him in charge for a while.

I mean Maiev suddenly reappears in CotEN and broken shore. Yes it happened... and is sure fire indication on how/why blizzard does these personnel swaps.. Maiev is more widely known than Jarod.

Because they made her the crazy.. she has lines in WC3, her brother though is in the novels mostly.. people don't read the novels.. this is why they are totally unaware by the great arcane legacy or surprised about night elves living in city or using arcane energy.. they only base them on the WC3 which they see, and totally ignore the lore.

Night elves have no arcane energy-- yet the well of eternity is the centre of their lore , exxistence and culture, moonwells - they don't read dso don't know why the arcane was banned.. don't know it was arcane practice, not arcane magical energy, and it surprrises them and seems wrong that nighte lves are now using arcane magic or accepting its usage after wc3.

This is also why they don't Jarod and others.. but then blizzard is the one also not using these characters more. how much screen time does Jarod have? But then if you think about it, it would have been more interesting to have Maiev following Illidan through CotEN instance rather than Sira or Jarod. Tyrande would have been interesting too.. but they totally forgot her for 7.2

What book?
Wota? Kanack's Books?
Those who have Jarold as a mery sue?

Jarod is very far from a mary sue in those books. - Rhonin and Krasus are the mary sues there.

- - - Updated - - -

Draenei and Blood Elves. The two most advanced races on Azeroth need to collaborate on some projects. Could create some killer magic shit. Just look at what the Blood Elves managed to do by reverse engineering Draenei/Naaru tech they captured. Imagine if the experience of the dranei and the brilliant minds of the elves worked together.

I would say Draenei and Night elves. nigh t elves are still more advanced than blood elves as the Nightborne show and the hgihborne boast of. Then we have the blood leves, then Dalaran. imo.

[Tanaria]

I mean Maiev suddenly reappears in CotEN and broken shore. Yes it happened... and is sure fire indication on how/why blizzard does these personnel swaps.. Maiev is more widely known than Jarod.

No, it doesn't happen. The job of leading the Wardens doesn't factor into any of the quests in Val'Sharah.

I've just checked them and read the quest text for that portion of the zone and I can confirm, Jarod was never given, nor offered, the position of leading the Wardens. I don't know where or why you think that happened, but I can assure everyone that Maiev was never due to stand down as leader of the Wardens.

Maiev was always going to remain the leader of the Wardens. Thank goodness...

[Shadowtwili]

Races that should be shown working together more? Oh man there's so many.

Gnomes and mechagnomes.
Gnomes and (Dark Iron) dwarves.
Mechagnomes and Dark Iron.
(Dark Iron) Dwarves and Frostborne dwarves.
Gilneans and Kul Tirasians.
Tauren and Taun'ka.
Highmountain and Taun'ka.
Mag'har and orcs.
Goblins and gilgoblins.
Vulpera and Zandalari trolls.
Darkspear, Shatterspear, Revantusk and Zandalari trolls.
Vulpera and goblins.

Honestly so many.

- - - Updated - - -

In Wolfheart, I think it was, Maiev goes rogue after murdering Shen'dralar and the job of leader of the Wardens goes to Jarod.

But, the wardens are named the Watchers and based in Darnassus before they were retconned in Legion.

[Selastan]

I would say Draenei and Night elves. nigh t elves are still more advanced than blood elves as the Nightborne show and the hgihborne boast of. Then we have the blood leves, then Dalaran. imo.

Blood Elves are far more advanced than the Night Elves, even the Nightborne.

[geco]

No, it doesn't happen. The job of leading the Wardens doesn't factor into any of the quests in Val'Sharah.

I've just checked them and read the quest text for that portion of the zone and I can confirm, Jarod was never given, nor offered, the position of leading the Wardens. I don't know where or why you think that happened, but I can assure everyone that Maiev was never due to stand down as leader of the Wardens.

Maiev was always going to remain the leader of the Wardens. Thank goodness...

Thanks

I mean Maiev suddenly reappears in CotEN and broken shore. Yes it happened... and is sure fire indication on how/why blizzard does these personnel swaps.. Maiev is more widely known than Jarod.

Because they made her the crazy.. she has lines in WC3, her brother though is in the novels mostly.. people don't read the novels.. this is why they are totally unaware by the great arcane legacy or surprised about night elves living in city or using arcane energy.. they only base them on the WC3 which they see, and totally ignore the lore.

Night elves have no arcane energy-- yet the well of eternity is the centre of their lore , exxistence and culture, moonwells - they don't read dso don't know why the arcane was banned.. don't know it was arcane practice, not arcane magical energy, and it surprrises them and seems wrong that nighte lves are now using arcane magic or accepting its usage after wc3.

This is also why they don't Jarod and others.. but then blizzard is the one also not using these characters more. how much screen time does Jarod have? But then if you think about it, it would have been more interesting to have Maiev following Illidan through CotEN instance rather than Sira or Jarod. Tyrande would have been interesting too.. but they totally forgot her for 7.2

So we're sure the only novels out there are Kanack's. Those that in essence according to chronicles are not cannon.

Those novels that decide to completely ignore the Maiev Character to give Jarold prominence. He is a character that is stuck in tradition in a race that has no space for him.
Druids <- Malfurion
Sentinenas <- Tyrande
Wardens <- Maiev
DH <- Illidian

What is the Narrative function of Jarold? Play as "igor" for Maiev but not even that because Maiev has Naisha, Sira and the other two for that I work.
(Shandris would be Tyrande's "igor")

Besides, no one is ignorant of the Arcane Legacy of the Kaldlorei. It is part of Maiev's quests from W3. The point is that many captured that "we will not be like that again" as that. Not like in some future they will have a city of wizards again.

PS: I personally think that Jarold is a Pj put by force and that in truth all his achievements had to be Achievements of Maiev.
Or that his story is that he "died" at the hands of Illidian and that is why Maiev hates Illidian so much.
But hey Kanack.

Jarod is very far from a mary sue in those books. - Rhonin and Krasus are the mary sues there.

Well, does Jarold have a flaw or a plot for him?
Or is Shandris like a secondary pj to tell us more about Tyrande?

I mean, I'm not going to lie, the trilogy of the ancestors didn't interest me. But I did read Wolfheart and I didn't see any inner plot of Jarold. But a passive Pj who doesn't even know what he wants and who acts according to the plot.

He's not looking for Shandris or shandris for him, that's Tyrande's thing.
He wants to be with his sister. But he is the one who dumped her and he never manages to understand anything about her sister and he actively seems to be working to screw things up with her sister.
His function seems to be a way of introducing the players to the events nothing more.

-----

PS: To give an idae of defects.
Tyrande doesn't listen to anyone.
Maiev is addicted to her duty.
Malfurion forgets about his allies.

Unfortunately Tyrande and Maiev were cured of their defects but they did not tell us when or how. -.-

In Wolfheart, I think it was, Maiev goes rogue after murdering Shen'dralar and the job of leader of the Wardens goes to Jarod.

But, the wardens are named the Watchers and based in Darnassus before they were retconned in Legion.

It seems that the original idea was that it was the bad one in Cata. But hey, the idea did not sell.
Too bad they didn't learn the lesson with Sylvana.

[Rozz]

Draenei and Blood Elves, Draenei and Orcs, Dragons and non-human/NE races, Tauren and non-Orc/NE races, Forsaken and Trolls, Pandaren and Furbolgs, Jinyuu and Murlocs, and plenty more.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Given the geographical proximity between them, the battles and wars fought together and the friendship between Danath Trollbane and Kurdran Wildhammer, and possibly with Muradin Bronzebeard, the kingdom of Stromgarde should have strong relations with the Wildhammer and Bronzebeard dwarves.

[DatToffer]

I'd say...

-Draenei and Night elves, like they do in Forest song

-Taurens and Highmountain to at least make us believe there's some sort of cultural difference between them.

-Lightforged and Void elves. Their npcs discuss a lot in Stormwind. I wonder how they'd do together in combat.

-Orcs and Mag'har. I think a lot of the dialogue Garrosh had with green orcs in books could translate ingame between the Orcs and the Mag'har.
Would be funny to see them talking about the draenei massacre :

"_We killed so much of them. It was wrong.
_We let them live. It was wrong too."

-The example of Gnome-Dwarf cooperation in Dun Morogh quests is a bit underwhelming, but I think we've seen enough of them working together.

-Humans from different realms in a context that makes it funny and relevant. Human realms really should be like European countries who have a shit-ton of stereotypes and corny jokes to taunt each other.

-Taurens and Goblins, for the better and mostly the worst.

-Taurens and Night elves, but in a context where Taurens stop looking like the NE students in druidism. Make the elves learn a thing or two and question the very limited way they see Nature.