New item level cap in Tazavesh makes it dead on arrival for many mains

[Tsarez]

i mean its not like we have concrete numbers on this to counter your absolute bullshit made up evidance.
oh wait we do.
ever heard of R.IO and warcraft logs?

And what did they tell you after your phd analysis thereof?
Also what are you even replying to? To the fact that I say most people are sitting at 226? Go check the stats of wc logs yourself. I cba to aggregate all numbers for you, but the amount of parses for higher ilvl in mythic even blows away the mid to high amounts of heroic.

There is jack shit you know more than I do anyway because I would bet money on the fact that analyzing anything just for this argument is not something you have done ever. But at least I go by what I see and use the average main character that I come across to make my assumption that most people who claim to play even half way actively, have their gear almost maxed out through the vault.

And yet my argument, which flew entirely over your head, was a totally different one.

[thunderdragon2]

i dont think you know how the vault works if you think normal/heroic raiders are getting 226 from the vault.

i dont think you do either , just coz ppl are only doing nm/hc castle doesn't mean they aren't spamming 14s as a minimum

[Fenrys]

Those dungeons hat valuable trinkets/rings however. This dungeon does not.

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Please check the data provided later, we are talking about more than 200000 players here, which is a significant part of the player base. Its not like we have millions of players left.

I mean, this doesn't stop your point being meritless. It doesn't really matter how many players have 226 - its appropriate ilvl for the content. Equal to normal, which has been equal to last tiers mythic for quite some time. Not all content has to offer an upgrade to all players. Normal won't offer me any upgrades, but still provides a valuable service by being an entry level difficulty for organised raid content and quick catch-up gear for alts.

Taz provides a fun experience for all players (plus a hard mode for those looking for a challenge), an entry level challenge for those interested in 5 man content, and later down the line 2 M+ dungeons (plus catch-up gear). Complaining that it won't offer you upgrades is like complaining that random BGs or normal raids won't offer you upgrades. Its not meant to and doesn't need to. If you made the rewards higher, you'd have to increase the difficulty and risk alienating the casual player from what is designed as a bit of a show piece dungeon.

Edit: I don't want to have to farm normal of the new raid for gear, and I don't want to have to farm a mega-dungeon. I'll enjoy it for what it is, and try to complete the hard-mode

[FelPlague]

Those dungeons hat valuable trinkets/rings however. This dungeon does not.

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Please check the data provided later, we are talking about more than 200000 players here, which is a significant part of the player base. Its not like we have millions of players left.

What?

[arkanon]

Please check the data provided later, we are talking about more than 200000 players here, which is a significant part of the player base. Its not like we have millions of players left.

How many players do we have left?

[Keashaa]

Who on EARTH is so bad or low on time that the best they can do is normal cn or below +10, 6+ MONTHS into a season? If they exist, they can't be considered a relevant audience for game design decisions.

Interesting how you are talking about the majority of players. And these players invest most money (because they buy tokens and shop items with real money - elitists buy tokens and shop items with gold).

[aceperson]

has anyone else noticed that blizz pulled ANOTHER torghast situation? no one was complaining about. it was even praised a bit. then blizz change it for no reason and it's for the worse. WHY DO THEY CHANGE WHAT PEOPLE ARE HAPPY WITH?!

[Tradu]

has anyone else noticed that blizz pulled ANOTHER torghast situation? no one was complaining about. it was even praised a bit. then blizz change it for no reason and it's for the worse. WHY DO THEY CHANGE WHAT PEOPLE ARE HAPPY WITH?!

Who was praising having to spend thousands of valor per piece to make it relevant?

[schwarzkopf]

I've got 220 iLvl and I'm around 13th highest in my guild - ahead of some with ATOC ... I'm ok with getting some 226 gear

[aceperson]

Who was praising having to spend thousands of valor per piece to make it relevant?

who was complaining about CURRENT CONTENT loot being irrelevant? i didn't say the system was perfect. i would've preferred a mix of an ilvl increase and keep the upgrades. but the current loot is strictly worse and essentially dead on arrival since the mega dungeon is out scaled by early m+ dungeons.

[Tradu]

who was complaining about CURRENT CONTENT loot being irrelevant? i didn't say the system was perfect. i would've preferred a mix of an ilvl increase and keep the upgrades. but the current loot is strictly worse and essentially dead on arrival since the mega dungeon is out scaled by early m+ dungeons.

The loot is perfectly in line with where a M0 dungeon should be. Why would a M0 drop loot equal to the new normal raid? It's higher than the other M0 dungeons already, and 226 is absolutely relevant to most people going into 9.1. Not allowing upgrades also means there isn't any risk(or at least very low risk) of items from the dungeon becoming BiS by spending thousands of valor on them, which is good because M0 items shouldn't be BiS. It gives them time to tune items from the new dungeon if needed before allowing them to be upgraded based on live data, which they clearly much prefer over PTR data.

[justandulas]

I doubt many would say that Shadowlands is worse than BfA but I feel like this is by far the most confusing and senselessly designed expansion yet. There's been so much potentially enjoyable content this expansion completely killed by either a lack of a reward or a really bad reward system.

I've given up trying to figure out their thought process because I'm convinced it doesn't actually exist at this point.

TBH, it is worse than BFA. I'm no BFA apologist and ripped it apart constantly, but it gave us better paced patches, and offered complete new continent not broken up into segments like SL. It also offered an absurd amount of new races, and even though i'm not an alt guy, you have to respect just the sheer amount of new races added during BFA.

No new races in SL, no new classes, no new spells added (covenant don't count since it's borrowed power). You could make a case Choreghast is just as bad as Warfronts or IE, and i'd rather do IE (i can't believe i'm typing those words) over spending time in The Maw.

SL is a disaster, and the longer 9.1 takes to come out, the more irredeemable SL as a whole becomes. It's already a case of too little too late TBH

[aceperson]

The loot is perfectly in line with where a M0 dungeon should be. Why would a M0 drop loot equal to the new normal raid? It's higher than the other M0 dungeons already, and 226 is absolutely relevant to most people going into 9.1. Not allowing upgrades also means there isn't any risk(or at least very low risk) of items from the dungeon becoming BiS by spending thousands of valor on them, which is good because M0 items shouldn't be BiS. It gives them time to tune items from the new dungeon if needed before allowing them to be upgraded based on live data, which they clearly much prefer over PTR data.

congratulations, you want NEW CONTENT to be relevant for one week and then not again for MONTHS because everything out scales it massively. whatever. i don't know why i bother with ignorant people like you. you just take everything at face value and don't bother to think.

[Crimson Spears]

congratulations, you want NEW CONTENT to be relevant for one week and then not again for MONTHS because everything out scales it massively. whatever. i don't know why i bother with ignorant people like you. you just take everything at face value and don't bother to think.

Hot take I know... but I don't think content should be designed for everyone in mind. There is nothing wrong with having content aimed at certain parts of the playerbase rather then every single thing with a pulse...and a few kinds of plants.

[Raetary]

I don't see how 226 makes it dead on arrival?

The majority of the playerbase will not be anywhere near that number.

[Fenrys]

congratulations, you want NEW CONTENT to be relevant for one week and then not again for MONTHS because everything out scales it massively. whatever. i don't know why i bother with ignorant people like you. you just take everything at face value and don't bother to think.

His take is far more reasoned than yours. This is easy, fun content. It shouldn't offer a greater reward than similar challenges, such as normal raids.

[Hyrja]

Maybe for like 1% it will be i agree.
But for 99% it will be upgrades

[Glorious Leader]

His take is far more reasoned than yours. This is easy, fun content. It shouldn't offer a greater reward than similar challenges, such as normal raids.

simple question why not?

[justandulas]

I feel like a middle ground approach is reasonable here.

It’s reasonable to launch it as a way to springboard people into next tier who are behind

But it’s also unreasonable to expect people to wait til 9.2 to do harder versions, why not launch m+ version of it in a few weeks or months after? It doesn’t need to wait half a year to turn on the m+ version even if it doesn’t need it at launch

It will absolutely end up as dead content sooner rather than later until m+

[aceperson]

Hot take I know... but I don't think content should be designed for everyone in mind. There is nothing wrong with having content aimed at certain parts of the playerbase rather then every single thing with a pulse...and a few kinds of plants.

but this has no one in mind! it's being used, at best, as catchup gear which most people won't do because m+ exists. why bother forming a group for this place when you can use a que system to get the gear needed to start farming m+? this dungeon is a once and done thing.