Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Combatbutler]

Honestly the fact that you don't see the huge red flag of Elisande treating the Blood Elves and High Elves so differently as anything major or of note is just hilarious by itself.

Like yeah you can misread everything to deny there's a notorious cultural shift -because surprise, even living in separate communities leads to compounding cultural shifts, like the Highvale you so glibly dismissed-

And that's the thing, if you keep dismissing the facts because you don't like them, so, eh? Can't do much really. If the fact that Blood Elves and High Eves keep obviously diverging is something you cannot see, then it's literally not on me.

Sorry I have standards, wow cultures are piss poor bottom tier to begin with, with hardly any culture being even remotely fleshed out, everything we see in wow is pretty much one big blob.

[Vaedan]

Both groups maintain their traditions since the end of TBC.

I'd say both groups maintain some facets of the pre-Third War Era, but none of them in precisely same way.

[Kyriani]

I don't think it's realistic to say that the high elves living in human society haven't changed over time. Living in an entirely different society requires adaptation and compromise. Some traditions have likely been abandoned because they don't fit in or aren't practical in the society those high elves now find themselves living in.

If anything I'd say that the blood elves of quel'thalas have likely retained most of the traditions and culture of their fore-bearers. That's not to say they haven't seen changes to their culture over the years, only that they've retained much more of their past traditions and seen less change in their culture than say high elves living in stormwind or highvale.

Do they all share the same history? Yes. But do they now share the same traditions and culture? I'd say that, while they may have a few things in common culturally, at this point I'd be truly surprised if their cultural differences didn't outweigh their similarities.

It's not about "who you bang". It's about where you live, who you're living with, and how you have to change to fit in to that environment. If you move to a new country, you will absolutely have to change to adapt to that culture, otherwise you'll have problems. And even if you refuse to change much, your progeny (if you have any) will almost certainly change far more than you because they are actually growing up in this new society while you did not. They will naturally seek to adapt to the environment they find themselves growing in and thus their culture and values will shift.

It's like if an american moved to england. Sure they don't have to worry about communication, but certain phrases that might seem innocuous in the united states could be taken as rude or offensive in england. The opposite is also true, and the immigrant would need to get used to phrases they might find offensive being part of casual discourse in their new country. There's a lot of little changes you'd have to make when moving to a new country... like learning to pump your own gas for example. All those changes add up and, over time, can shift your outlook and views or that of your children, leading to your future generations being culturally removed from your original homeland. The degree of that removal can vary depending on the contrasts and especially the reasons why you left in the first place.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Both groups maintain their traditions since the end of TBC.

It is as you say with time the high elves of the alliance will have a cultural change.
the blood elves are the ones who maintain the traditions and racial identity of the high elves before the invasion

JFC the point is BOTH changed culturally, distinct in different degrees of what they were. The whole "whose the real high elves" is just such a pointless question. Both groups will veer off from what they once were, not completely, of course both will hold on to certain traditions, but the whole thing is they are a progression of what they once were.

Again, to be clear, some traditions will be maintained and both groups will have a sense of continuity, but the thing about cultural evolution is that it is natural, every culture evolves and changes, is just that the fall of Quel'thalas sped that process.

Like how Kaldorei and Shaldorei have gone into different cultural paths, but they both still worship elune and moon imagery remains an aesthetic cornerstone.

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Sorry I have standards, wow cultures are piss poor bottom tier to begin with, with hardly any culture being even remotely fleshed out, everything we see in wow is pretty much one big blob.

Yeah, definitely on you then.

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I don't think it's realistic to say that the high elves living in human society haven't changed over time. Living in an entirely different society requires adaptation and compromise. Some traditions have likely been abandoned because they don't fit in or aren't practical in the society those high elves now find themselves living in.

If anything I'd say that the blood elves of quel'thalas have likely retained most of the traditions and culture of their fore-bearers. That's not to say they haven't seen changes to their culture over the years, only that they've retained much more of their past traditions and seen less change in their culture than say high elves living in stormwind or highvale.

Do they all share the same history? Yes. But do they now share the same traditions and culture? I'd say that, while they may have a few things in common culturally, at this point I'd be truly surprised if their cultural differences didn't outweigh their similarities.

It's not about "who you bang". It's about where you live, who you're living with, and how you have to change to fit in to that environment. If you move to a new country, you will absolutely have to change to adapt to that culture, otherwise you'll have problems. And even if you refuse to change much, your progeny (if you have any) will almost certainly change far more than you because they are actually growing up in this new society while you did not. They will naturally seek to adapt to the environment they find themselves growing in and thus their culture and values will shift.

It's like if an american moved to england. Sure they don't have to worry about communication, but certain phrases that might seem innocuous in the united states could be taken as rude or offensive in england. The opposite is also true, and the immigrant would need to get used to phrases they might find offensive being part of casual discourse in their new country. There's a lot of little changes you'd have to make when moving to a new country... like learning to pump your own gas for example. All those changes add up and, over time, can shift your outlook and views or that of your children, leading to your future generations being culturally removed from your original homeland. The degree of that removal can vary depending on the contrasts and especially the reasons why you left in the first place.

Basically this. I do agree that High Elves will perhaps change more over time from their original culture and homeland. As any group of expats, they will start diverging with time. Is simply cultural drift.

And I do agree that Blood Elves might have changed less, but what they went through DID changed them, and that cannot be dismissed, they just didn't rename themselves for branding purposes; it's just wild to me that some people really expect that a society that was almost extinguished and renamed themselves in honor of their fallen, and shifted their focus on survival, won't have long lasting cultural changes that will set them apart on a significant measure from what they were.

[Rhlor]

JFC the point is BOTH changed culturally, distinct in different degrees of what they were. The whole "whose the real high elves" is just such a pointless question. Both groups will veer off from what they once were, not completely, of course both will hold on to certain traditions, but the whole thing is they are a progression of what they once were.

Again, to be clear, some traditions will be maintained and both groups will have a sense of continuity, but the thing about cultural evolution is that it is natural, every culture evolves and changes, is just that the fall of Quel'thalas sped that process.

Like how Kaldorei and Shaldorei have gone into different cultural paths, but they both still worship elune and moon imagery remains an aesthetic cornerstone.

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Yeah, definitely on you then.

elves are immortal (or at least they live as long as draenei) so I can say that a pureblood elf who lives thousands of years will uphold their traditions better than a short lived half elf

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I'd say both groups maintain some facets of the pre-Third War Era, but none of them in precisely same way.

Exactly; it's what happened to the night elves after the Sundering but on a lesser degree, with significant groups focusing on different cultural aspects and evolving accordingly. Neither is the exact same culture than the NE empire was, they changed over time, and the same thing will continue to happen to HE and BE's.

Also I don't get the assumption that Blood Elves want to go back to how things were. They take great pride in their survival and I have yet to see a single Blood Elf in game being "we should go back to be high elves now guys". It's just personally weird that BE's, who are one of the most progressive groups -mostly out of convenience- would lead to a traditionalist movement.

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elves are immortal (or at least they live as long as draenei) so I can say that a pureblood elf who lives thousands of years will uphold their traditions better than a short lived half elf

I literally gave you the example of NE and NB, some of them who adapted to the new culture on their own lifetimes... SMH

More so, you still keep making the assumption that Blood Elves want to maintain their culture the way it was, instead of progressing it -as their usage of fel and larger holy light worships heavily suggests-

The BE culture is notoriously different already than what it was by the existence of the Blood Knights alone as a more prominent and culturally respected institution that the Farstriders, and you continue to claim it's the same than pre third war? And don't even get me started on Warlocks and the usage of fel, that was heavily banned before and now Warlocks are a staple of the BE military; and let's not forget the shift on mages from preferring ice magic as HE's were described to, preferring now fire magics.

[Rhlor]

Exactly; it's what happened to the night elves after the Sundering but on a lesser degree, with significant groups focusing on different cultural aspects and evolving accordingly. Neither is the exact same culture than the NE empire was, they changed over time, and the same thing will continue to happen to HE and BE's.

Also I don't get the assumption that Blood Elves want to go back to how things were. They take great pride in their survival and I have yet to see a single Blood Elf in game being "we should go back to be high elves now guys". It's just personally weird that BE's, who are one of the most progressive groups -mostly out of convenience- would lead to a traditionalist movement.

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I literally gave you the example of NE and NB, some of them who adapted to the new culture on their own lifetimes... SMH

More so, you still keep making the assumption that Blood Elves want to maintain their culture the way it was, instead of progressing it -as their usage of fel and larger holy light worships heavily suggests-

The BE culture is notoriously different already than what it was by the existence of the Blood Knights alone as a more prominent and culturally respected institution that the Farstriders, and you continue to claim it's the same than pre third war? And don't even get me started on Warlocks and the usage of fel, that was heavily banned before and now Warlocks are a staple of the BE military; and let's not forget the shift on mages from preferring ice magic as HE's were described to, preferring now fire magics.

the blood knight are more respected than the farstrider ?? LOL

literally everything quelthalas is protected by farstriders and the racial leader who is loved by all is a farstrider! In addition to the fact that the blood knights are not an independent organization, they are under the command of the grand magister as the highest authority.

actually the high elves used fire magic against the amani to prevent them from regenerating their limbs is more the victory in the trolls wars was thanks to a gigantic fire spell.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

the blood knight are more respected than the farstrider ?? LOL

literally everything quelthalas is protected by farstriders and the racial leader who is loved by all is a farstrider! In addition to the fact that the blood knights are not an independent organization, they are under the command of the grand magister as the highest authority.

actually the high elves used fire magic against the amani to prevent them from regenerating their limbs is more the victory in the trolls wars was thanks to a gigantic fire spell.

It's utterly pointless talking with you simply go "lol no" because it doesn't fit what you want to believe.

Blood Knights salute you when you /eye wards, Liadrin -not Halduron- lead the military contingent to Suramar -more so, Liadrin has oftentimes taken the place that the Ranger General should have. Nothing suggests that Liadrin is under the command of Rommath.

"actually high elves used fire magic" jesus christ that they know fire magic and used it when necessary/useful it's not the same than what magic was preferred. Like that's early wow lore "high elves prefer frost magic, blood elves fire magic" but go ahead and just dismiss it, as you do anything that doesn't fit what you wanna believe.

[Rhlor]

It's utterly pointless talking with you simply go "lol no" because it doesn't fit what you want to believe.

Blood Knights salute you when you /eye wards, Liadrin -not Halduron- lead the military contingent to Suramar -more so, Liadrin has oftentimes taken the place that the Ranger General should have. Nothing suggests that Liadrin is under the command of Rommath.

"actually high elves used fire magic" jesus christ that they know fire magic and used it when necessary/useful it's not the same than what magic was preferred. Like that's early wow lore "high elves prefer frost magic, blood elves fire magic" but go ahead and just dismiss it, as you do anything that doesn't fit what you wanna believe.

read blood of the highborne, rommath is liadrin's boss, she responds to his orders and makes reports for rommath. Like the blood mage, the blood knight is under the orbit of the magister.

do you remember 4.1? where halduron says that he is responsible for the defense of quelthalas?
the farstriders and magisters are the two highest quelthalas organizations as they always were

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

read blood of the highborne, rommath is liadrin's boss, she responds to his orders and makes reports for rommath. Like the blood mage, the blood knight is under the orbit of the magister.

do you remember 4.1? where halduron says that he is responsible for the defense of quelthalas?
the farstriders and magisters are the two highest quelthalas organizations as they always were

And you are continually dismissing every instance were Liadrin has taken command since WoD. Cause sending expeditions under the command of paladins was something high elves always did.

Honestly if you wanna keep trying to plug the holes of your sinking ship of an argument, you do you.

[Rhlor]

And you are continually dismissing every instance were Liadrin has taken command since WoD. Cause sending expeditions under the command of paladins was something high elves always did.

Honestly if you wanna keep trying to plug the holes of your sinking ship of an argument, you do you.

she is an efficient military commander. that does not change that after lorthemar the two people with the most power in quelthalas are halduron and rommath the leaders of the two most important organizations and the blood knights are under the orbit of the magister. the game is not the only source of lore there are also the novels

[Ardenaso]

I think this is going nowhere and so y'all should end it here now.

[Combatbutler]

Yeah, definitely on you then.

What that blizz writes shallow almost non entities, or that you genuinely believe that two liners actually are a meaningful cultural difference?

[Ardenaso]

Check this out!

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/media/h...grades.133715/

[FlubberPuddy]

What that blizz writes shallow almost non entities, or that you genuinely believe that two liners actually are a meaningful cultural difference?

That your opinion of it all being a blob doesn't mean the nuance that exists actually isn't there.

It's the same as how there's a community who dig deep into WoW's lore to see where we're going next/predict how something will play out in the future, but at the same time majority of people can also say 'we're just gonna go back to fighting and team up for the next big bad like usual!'

The latter doesn't take away the nuances laid down that intrigue the former.

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Check this out!

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/media/h...grades.133715/

That's pretty neat!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Check this out!

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/media/h...grades.133715/

Dude this is super cool!

[Ardenaso]

Dude this is super cool!

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads...castle.333350/

afsdfdsfsdfdsafddsafd it's time to mod Reforged

[Rhlor]

https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads...castle.333350/

afsdfdsfsdfdsafddsafd it's time to mod Reforged

so awesome

[Le Conceptuel]

Unless we get a new race called "High elves", people* are not going to be happy with it.

*You

/10chars

[FlubberPuddy]

If other people are trying to change the Void Elves into something they are not....its up to them. But i bet its never going to happen.

The biggest 'win' for this thread and others like it was getting the skin customization and eye customization on Void Elves that made them look more normal to open up the different fantasies available for those players. Something that others also thought before would "never happen."

Hair color is a way way way smaller ask in comparison so it will be funny to see the reactions to it.

I already saw on the official forums someone trying to say VE shouldn't get blonde/brown/black hairs even if they're the same shades from Kul'Tiran and not from Blood Elves.

Just take a moment to think how ridiculous that sounds 'no you are barred from these specific colors' - especially when they are hair colors on every single other race but Void Elves.

Brown, Blonde, Black hair colors - every other race besides VE has at least 1 of these hair colors, some 2, some all 3. So the precedent is already there and exists, it's just a matter of when.

Just like how Nightborne will eventually get more customization options in the future as they have the least overall options available - an inevitability that will come to pass. Same as VE hair colors people are asking for.