This is World of Warcraft - Carbot new video

[Mahcake]

Sentences like this is why you guys cant be taken seriously ever, and why guys like me are being called "elitist" for calling it out.

You think your irrelevant gaming experience matters and its correct in any way shape and form, when you are literally paying to play a game you are not supposed to.

WoW is a MMORPG. First RPG ever is D&D. Leveling is part of D&D and thus it's part of MMORPG and WoW.

[potis]

WoW is a MMORPG. First RPG ever is D&D. Leveling is part of D&D and thus it's part of MMORPG and WoW.

No one said anything about the leveling part of WoW and its RPGness back then (Its a ARPG for the last few years though).

I am simply saying that people need to understand, especially on mmo-champion, that their irrelevant gaming experience, does not reflect the game or the gameplay.

Just because you were busy, or too young, or whatever else reason, and something thats 1% of the actual gameplay, is 95% for you, doesnt mean absolutely anything, it only means you are (were) playing the wrong game for your period in life.

[anon5123]

and the fact that they are means something needs to change.

"people are mad over something, that means that thing needs to change"

nah

When the first store mount was added 10 years ago, I said the same thing: It's literally an optional vanity item. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

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the indication that things will end up same way as they did with retail before.

Saying things like this just shows how ignorant you are.

Retail is bad because the GAME is bad, not because of optional vanity pets/mounts. Cash shop did not "kill WoW", the constant and consistent over-simplification of the game killed it.

Adding vanity pets/mounts to TBC will not make it "end up the same way as retail", because it's not retail, it's TBC

lmao

[Tojara]

Read up any argument against the boost that doesn't involve "Blizzard is greedy", i doubt they'll change your mind but that's another debate.

Personally, i wouldn't throw around "retard" when you write a small essay yet forget the simple fact that this video & thread is primarily about a rerelease of a 15 year old game, of course it should follow the old school design because that's what it is and that's why people want to play it.

A rerelease should not "adapt" to the modern audience in every facet because then one could skip this whole ordeal and just play the modern game.
You just cannot tell me with a straight face that TBC could somehow not have a stable population without the boost, despite the fact that there have been loads of Classic servers with a decent population right up the release of TBC.

I mean it's retarded to believe that a big reason private servers had decent stable populations is because most of them cost zero money to join. It's also retarded to believe that lots of private servers were exact replicas of TBC and didn't contain MTX or other 'options' that you could buy either, depending on the private server you belonged too. You're literally ignoring all of the negatives of the private scene like they don't exist. You're delusional if you don't think a big reason people join private servers is because of the lack of monetary cost attached to it.

I don't think they're trying to reinvent the wheel here BTW. Servers were never this big this many years ago, yet how many servers do you think they should make? People clamor for the social aspect of these games like it's a lost jewel, while systematically shitting on things like layering that allows servers with populations of what, 15-20k to even exist in the first place? When I played Vanilla the biggest servers were what, 5k max, with most being around the 3k mark?

At the end of the day take your opinion of boosts being bad because you wont change my opinion and it's apparent I'm not changing yours. I can fully admit that there are bad things that come with boosting, but the shear fact I've had lots of friends come back that didn't want to drudge through Vanilla questing just to play a version of the game they might actually enjoy is all I really needed to be okay with it.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Easily the best animation Carbot has ever made. Can't believe how thoroughly he shredded modern day WoW and all of its reprehensible design choices and business practices. I can only hope this gives Bli$$ard as much negative pr as humanly possible.

[vizzle]

I saw this on Reddit front page this morning, thought it was pretty nice. The reactions were very kind and thoughtful.

I see this on MMO-Champ tonight. The reactions are toxic and cynical.

Hopefully when WoW finally dies, this community goes along with it.

It's fine if you don't agree with Carbot. But the level of negativity, the complete inability by some posters to accept any of the criticism, and to pretend it's just because people "got old"? It's pretty pathetic.

The truth is a game doesn't go from 12 million subs to < 2 million subs because of a series of good changes. But there are some of you who will pretend there's no fault with the game right up until either it dies or you die.

[Jastall]

Yes the video has a nostalgic and melancholy feel but why do people keep forgetting the biggest reason why people who have been playing since vanilla are getting bored with the game?

Life basically.

I started playing in high-school and had a ton of time to kill, and now I'm a fully functioning adult with responsibilities and a lot of other interests besides just WoW. I cannot imagine coming even close to investing the sort of time I did at the time in this game anymore and whenever I do pop back in for a bit I enjoy my time with it before invariably taking a break again due to lack of time.

People are trying hard to hold on to a "feeling" that they got back in the day and its like trying to catch sand with your hands. People who started in Vanilla are 30+ now, many with children of their own, and rather than lay the blame solely at Blizzards feet why don't people realize that it's okay to grow tired of a hobby or a game after this long and seek that feeling elsewhere.

Seems like midlife crisis disguised as criticism of the game for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

People on forums tend to be overly invested in the game and go on to project their overinvestment in others.

[Kralljin]

Saying things like this just shows how ignorant you are.

Retail is bad because the GAME is bad, not because of optional vanity pets/mounts. Cash shop did not "kill WoW", the constant and consistent over-simplification of the game killed it.

Adding vanity pets/mounts to TBC will not make it "end up the same way as retail", because it's not retail, it's TBC

lmao

And saying things like this just shows that you do not the see the bigger picture.

Your entire line why "Retail is bad" can be summed in: Because the game started to adapt to the player, rather the player to the game.
After all, they simplified the game in order to adapt to a given audience.

What's the boost?
It's the game adapting to the player.

Even Vanity items follow the same ideology, a store is not good game design, it's the adaption of the game towards the mindset of some players being willing to pay for something, rather than play for it.

I mean it's retarded to believe that a big reason private servers had decent stable populations is because most of them cost zero money to join. It's also retarded to believe that lots of private servers were exact replicas of TBC and didn't contain MTX or other 'options' that you could buy either, depending on the private server you belonged too. You're literally ignoring all of the negatives of the private scene like they don't exist. You're delusional if you don't think a big reason people join private servers is because of the lack of monetary cost attached to it.

Who is talking about private servers?

I talked about official classic servers, please do not call me delusional (let alone call my post retarded) when you somehow managed to read something about private servers into my post.

I don't think they're trying to reinvent the wheel here BTW. Servers were never this big this many years ago, yet how many servers do you think they should make? People clamor for the social aspect of these games like it's a lost jewel, while systematically shitting on things like layering that allows servers with populations of what, 15-20k to even exist in the first place? When I played Vanilla the biggest servers were what, 5k max, with most being around the 3k mark?

What does have the amount of servers or its respective server sizes to do with anything of that?

Again, there have been more than enough healthy servers by the end of Classic and the vast majority of those players transitioned to TBC, i do not see the need to sacrifice the integrity of the game for more players outside of shortsighted profit.

[Crimson Spears]

Because it's an "EXPANSION" of the original game. Not a standalone game.

No one or at least not more then a minority of a minority of a minority are playing classic tbc for vanilla content.

[anon5123]

Oh and yes, WoW is dying. 2m active subscribers vs 12m it once had is kinda different.

Most other MMOs struggle to get a few hundred thousand , but no, WoW is "dead" at 2 million

WoW literally has the most active subs of any pay-to-play MMO, but no it's "dying"

L M A O

[Mahcake]

"people are mad over something, that means that thing needs to change"

nah

When the first store mount was added 10 years ago, I said the same thing: It's literally an optional vanity item. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

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Saying things like this just shows how ignorant you are.

Retail is bad because the GAME is bad, not because of optional vanity pets/mounts. Cash shop did not "kill WoW", the constant and consistent over-simplification of the game killed it.

Adding vanity pets/mounts to TBC will not make it "end up the same way as retail", because it's not retail, it's TBC

lmao

Vanity pets/mounts bought only from the store is part of the problem.

When devs see that it's profitable and easy money, they don't have to put that many resources into the actual game and things you can get in the game because it's much cheaper to create a half-baked expansion and make real money from the store/boosts/etc. It's completely logical.

That's why the art is so good because that's what sells the expansion. Looks and how good new zones, armor, enemies look. You can't see systems, mechanics in the trailer.

WoW is just a cash machine now. The old way of making this game from players for players is completely gone and it's designed to make people spend money as much as possible.

[anon5123]

Your entire line why "Retail is bad" can be summed in: Because the game started to adapt to the player, rather the player to the game.
After all, they simplified the game in order to adapt to a given audience.

What's the boost?
It's the game adapting to the player.

And a ONE TIME level 58 boost is not the same thing as the massive plethora of other changes retail made

The fact that you're even trying to equate these two things is mindblowingly dumb.

Like I seriously don't understand this "vanity items and 1-time boost is turning TBC into retail!" garbage that people keep pushing. What, do you think Blizzard is going to add LFR? And force you to wear your class' highest armor type? And homogenize classes? And add world quests? And dumb down stats on gear? No, they're literally just giving us vanity mounts/pets that have 0 impact on gameplay. And yet, idiots like you are screeching and REEEEing that it's some kind of slippery slope "going to turn into retail again"

I don't get it.

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When devs see that it's profitable and easy money, they don't have to put that many resources into the actual game and things you can get in the game because it's much cheaper to create a half-baked expansion and make real money from the store/boosts/etc.

And none of this applies to TBC because the game is already 100% fully completed.

Try again.

[Rinnegan2]

"people are mad over something, that means that thing needs to change"

nah

people who love wow are quitting and not paying and some of them are voicing why they left. you do everything as fast as you can to get them back in the boat. people who are indifferent when it comes to mtx in mmos? they will stay either way. no one has ever said "if I cant buy this shiny dragon with my credit card then I quit!" so the solution is simple. we remove mtx -> the 6-7 million players we had in 2010 come back and wow is back at the top with 12 mio+ subs. it's not about not wanting to make the game fun for fellow players it's about making Blizzard the most amount of money and 12 mio subs is more money than 5 mio + mtx. it's simple maths in the end.

[Ragedaug]

The only part that even touched me slightly was the people disappearing one by one. But such is the way the game works - Always has, always will. I mean, you heard the same complaints of people leaving in BC. And Wrath. And Cata...

Hell, you literally have NEVER not heard the complaints that the real reason people left was that their friends just stopped. And when that happened, the game stopped being fun. Unsurprising, really.

There's a lot of truth here. My sister (who convinced me to start playing WoW) and her husband "disappeared" from the game in the original Vanilla during the Naxx patch. People have always been joining and quitting.

[anon5123]

so the solution is simple. we remove mtx -> the 6-7 million players we had in 2010 come back

You're delusional if you think over 6 million people quit solely because of vanity store mounts, and no other reason.

Like, straight up "please take your meds" delusional.

[Mahcake]

No one or at least not more then a minority of a minority of a minority are playing classic tbc for vanilla content.

That doesn't mean it's not part of the game.

[vizzle]

There's a lot of truth here. My sister (who convinced me to start playing WoW) and her husband "disappeared" from the game in the original Vanilla during the Naxx patch. People have always been joining and quitting.

Duh. The rate of joining and the rate of quitting is what's important.

[Tojara]

Yes the video has a nostalgic and melancholy feel but why do people keep forgetting the biggest reason why people who have been playing since vanilla are getting bored with the game?

Life basically.

I started playing in high-school and had a ton of time to kill, and now I'm a fully functioning adult with responsibilities and a lot of other interests besides just WoW. I cannot imagine coming even close to investing the sort of time I did at the time in this game anymore and whenever I do pop back in for a bit I enjoy my time with it before invariably taking a break again due to lack of time.

People are trying hard to hold on to a "feeling" that they got back in the day and its like trying to catch sand with your hands. People who started in Vanilla are 30+ now, many with children of their own, and rather than lay the blame solely at Blizzards feet why don't people realize that it's okay to grow tired of a hobby or a game after this long and seek that feeling elsewhere.

Seems like midlife crisis disguised as criticism of the game for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

I mean your post pretty much sums that up for me as well.

The gameplay loop in WoW has barely changed whether people want to admit it or not, and many of those that I played with actually enjoyed the initial rush of gearing and jumping straight into raids.

Most of my friends would likely still raid, but jobs and stuff get in the way, and they just don't have enough spare time to commit to an actual raiding schedule in the game at all. Even a couple 3 hour blocks a week is far too much, and thus, they quit the game because the thing that kept them playing for years is something they can no longer commit too.

While there are some that quit at various stages because the OOR (out of raid) commitments were far too high (MoP, Legion were big ones) most didn't quit because the game was bad, they just didn't have time to well.. play on a schedule anymore. How do you fix that? Change raiding so my friend Andrew with an infrequent schedule who has to go to bed at differing times during the year can suddenly do raids again?

Most of my friends who quit WoW never go into others MMOs despite trying other ones. All of them play multiplayer games that you can pick up anytime without a schedule or they just play single player games.

[Ragedaug]

Duh. The rate of joining and the rate of quitting is what's important.

Ah, the thing none of us will ever know. Gotcha.

[Kralljin]

And a ONE TIME level 58 boost is not the same thing as the massive plethora of other changes retail made

No, but it follows the same ideology of valueing profit over the integrity of your game.

The fact that you're even trying to equate these two things is mindblowingly dumb.

Because they follow the same ideology, it's just you trying to justify something that cannot be justified outside of Blizzards bottomline.

Like I seriously don't understand this "vanity items and 1-time boost is turning TBC into retail!" garbage that people keep pushing.

I am telling you that the very same philosophy that, by your own admission, "ruined retail" is now being applied to a game where this was previously absent.

TBC is not becoming retail because of this, but it moved closer to it for no other than reason than Blizzard wanting more profit from something that already made them a lot of profit and still will (because every TBC Classic player is still paying the full monthly sub).

And frankly, this will very likely become a stepping stone for further monetization in the future, i don't think i need to be a soothsayer to foretell the WoW Token by the time of Wotlk Classic.