"Pay to win"

[DechCJC]

Nah. There's two types of people: those who know neither game is p2w, and those who are wrong.

I feel like I’m being called an idiot for not believing the earth is flat.

[arkanon]

I feel like I’m being called an idiot for not believing the earth is flat.

Ok good, so im not the only one noticing the similarities here.

[chiddie]

Leveling is giving players power but the only reason you don't see that is because the cap is now 70. Time is everything in MMO's which is why so many people are willing to spend money to skip to 58. If you wait too long then you won't get into raids and you'll be replaced. You wait too long then you fall become in PvP. Time is everything in a MMO. There's a reason why so many people want a fresh TBC server because so many people are ahead of fresh players.

In short, you are winning something like 150 hours of /played BEFORE the actual and relevant content begins.

How much this may be considered winning depends on people’s POV.

I’m not interested in Classic, but if I would I would surely buy the boost, 150 hours of /played it’s about 10 to 12 weeks of real time for me. 58-70 is painful enough time wise, whatever allows me to skip a portion of leveling is just a big yes. As someone said before, many people would not even think to try TBC without the boost, because the 1-58 part would be too long and time consuming.

But indeed, you don’t really get any real advantage since the relevant part of game starts when the boost ends. You can get to the relevant part faster than a player that starts at level 1 and that’s all. But I’m confused on how this can be considered an issue, since it can be used once per account, also.

[Jinpachi]

Once again, that's not what pay to win is. So saying they're not "winning" would be to say p2w simply doesn't exist. And p2w ruins the integrity of the game. Being able to spend money to get an advantage over players not spending money just makes the players not spending money typically quit because why bother playing through portions of the game when you can just drop some cash to get ahead of you.

This game hasn't had integrity for YEARS. But yes, the whales make the game world go round. The poor plebs can get bent and grind out their sets just like everyone else used to until they got older, got better paying jobs, got a life and a family, and didn't care to devote dozens of hours a week into this hamster wheel of a game.

[Nzx]

Every time I read posts in threads like this I wish that I could pay to boost characters I don't even want to play just to tilt them more. Your time wasted grinding 1-58 is no more or less valid than someone else's time spent working (i.e contributing to society) and then paying to get to the beginning of the game they want to play, which is TBC, which starts at level 58.

[Kralljin]

The poor plebs can get bent and grind out their sets just like everyone else used to until they got older, got better paying jobs, got a life and a family, and didn't care to devote dozens of hours a week into this hamster wheel of a game.

WoW is already one of the most expensive games to play at a baseline level, for those people where money is such an issue that they cannot afford a boost / WoW Token / whatever, then the free option of private Servers will likely be their choice, not the official servers where one has to pay a monthly fee.

Especially in the light of the fact that one could also just play the AH on Retail, get WoW Tokens, convert it into Blizzard balance and thus simply purchase anything on the shop with that.
If you have too much free time, you can afford anything in WoW without spending a single buck on the game.

The only thing this argument does is to derail the discussion because it's just an insult to state that anyone who dislikes the cashshop is actually too poor to pay up.

[kail]

[Jinpachi]

WoW is already one of the most expensive games to play at a baseline level, for those people where money is such an issue that they cannot afford a boost / WoW Token / whatever, then the free option of private Servers will likely be their choice, not the official servers where one has to pay a monthly fee.

Especially in the light of the fact that one could also just play the AH on Retail, get WoW Tokens, convert it into Blizzard balance and thus simply purchase anything on the shop with that.
If you have too much free time, you can afford anything in WoW without spending a single buck on the game.

The only thing this argument does is to derail the discussion because it's just an insult to state that anyone who dislikes the cashshop is actually too poor to pay up.

The cashshop is cosmetic shit, and other non-game-enhancing items. People are free to quit, or not use the cashshop. Those are your only options.

[anon5123]

>months later
>people still buttmad about an optional one-time-per-account boost

it's the seethe that keeps on seething

[arkanon]

>months later
>people still buttmad about an optional one-time-per-account boost

it's the seethe that keeps on seething

> One week after the same creator defended it...


The irony of pretending to be outraged by something just to make money, while accusing Blizzard of changing their game just to make money.....

[Kralljin]

The cashshop is cosmetic shit, and other non-game-enhancing items. People are free to quit, or not use the cashshop. Those are your only options.

Seems to me more you're moving the goalpost, but thanks for enlightening the more than obvious options.

[roahn the warlock]

Getting a single character to level 58 is not "winning" WoW.

That is all.

It objectively is pay to win.

That is all.

[TrollHunter3000]

It objectively is pay to win.

That is all.

You objectively do not know what either "objectively" means or what "pay to win" means. That is all.

[roahn the warlock]

You objectively do not know what either "objectively" means or what "pay to win" means. That is all.

It means paying for an advantage. If you can explain how an instant lvl 58, a mount, bags, and gold in TBC is not an advantage. (Especially when TBC had no catchup mechanic until Kara) I will send you a box of cookies, personally.

Do I care about competitive raiding or Arena in TBC? No, I do not, who cares who's glad or server firsts Magtherdon. but to go around saying it isn't P2W is laughable. At least own it.

Example. Clash of Clans, you can buy boosts to high level crap, or you can grind for it. Pay to win. It doesn't literally mean you win, lol. Feel free to argue how big of a P2W advantage it is, but don't go saying it isn't because it's not a major advantage. That's just splitting hairs.

[Devilyaki]

Yes when the treadmill of mythic runs came that was it..

[TrollHunter3000]

It means paying for an advantage. If you can explain how an instant lvl 58, a mount, bags, and gold in TBC is not an advantage. I will send you a box of cookies, personally.

lmao less than 20g worth of shit gear and 12 slot bags along with 25 actual gold and only 60% mount speed. HUGE advantage. ABSOLUTE insane advantage. I can't believe what an adv.. oh I literally just made 2000g in the last day from prospecting ore and selling gems.

Guess that 25g on my boosted character really helped me out. Fucking retard.

Do I care about competitive raiding or Arena in TBC? No, I do not, who cares who's glad or server firsts Magtherdon. but to go around saying it isn't P2W is laughable. At least own it.

Example. Clash of Clans, you can buy boosts to high level crap, or you can grind for it. Pay to win. It doesn't literally mean you win, lol.

How the fuck does buying a level 58 boost help you with any of those things? Are you fucking dense?

[roahn the warlock]

lmao less than 20g worth of shit gear and 12 slot bags along with 25 actual gold and only 60% mount speed. HUGE advantage. ABSOLUTE insane advantage. I can't believe what an adv.. oh I literally just made 2000g in the last day from prospecting ore and selling gems.

Guess that 25g on my boosted character really helped me out. Fucking retard.

How the fuck does buying a level 58 boost help you with any of those things? Are you fucking dense?

Someone's never been a progression raider before. And you failed. it may not be a HUGE advantage. But it is an advantage. lol.

[TrollHunter3000]

Someone's never been a progression raider before. And you failed. it may not be a HUGE advantage. But it is an advantage. lol.

????????????? You're going to tell me I've never been a progression raider before when your dumb fuck ass over here thinks 25 gold and a 60% mount is an advantage?

I like how you want me to explain to you how it's not an advantage. You're basically asking me to prove a negative, impossible. Why don't you give me a singular argument to how having this level 58 boost is any sort of advantage at all in either rated pvp or progression raiding.

[Daymanmb]

That’s just validating my point. I don’t know where we went wrong where we classify not having to spend 9g on a mount - which is less than one quest at max level - in the same category as traditional pay-to-win items like special ammo/weapons/armor.

It’s the same thing. The outrage for Steed was more “I don’t like the shop”, and “p2w” was just a provocative and convenient thing to add fuel to the discussion.

I’m not saying there’s no advantage and that these aren’t pay-for-time-saved services. I’m challenging the part where people correlate that to winning.

There are degrees.. hasve you ever heard of nuance? Jesus christ, it shouldnt be that hard of a concept to grasp.. Is buying armor/weapons/ammo p2w? Yes. Is buying a boost p2w? Yes. Are they on the same spectrum? Yes. Are they identical? No.

[Queen of Hamsters]

To me, "winning" WoW is being among the top players of your class, beating the most difficult bosses as part of top 100, earning Gladiator and being first with having the latest, hardest-to-get shit because YOU played your way there.

Sorry, there's nothing you can buy in this game, official or through RMT, that'd make you a winner by my standards. Bags? A mount? Level 58? LOL! That's not "winning", that's fucking time-saving.

So no, WoW is not P2W. Identifying people buying services by other players to get X mount, X ilvl or X achievement is easy as hell. They ain't winners, they're whales. P2Whale at best.

If someone's of the idea that I don't know... Gathering 10k pet charms, or having the AH vendor mount, or merely reaching a certain level (literally the most basic-ass part of the game) is "winning", then so be it. They can go around professing how they consider Pet Battle champions and players with max level characters, winners at WoW.