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  1. #201
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    But thats only you and all the other veterans.

    What about new people who just started last year? or the year before that? etc. they havent played the game for a decade and they might not have kids and wives and fulltime jobs. They are literally in the same situation you were early on... so theres no reason why they wouldnt continue playing, right? the only thing that can keep those people playing is addicting game design, the type that got you into it and kept you in its grasp for years.

    So this good old "we are too old now"-explanation doesnt really work, its not like people who started in 2005 are the last generation to ever play WoW. :P
    Ive met people in classic who said they never had the chance to experience it so now they are trying it out. (at max level btw)
    I'm relating my own subjective and personal experience - so obviously I can't speak for people who may have just started last year or the year before that. I'm speaking solely about myself and my own relationship with the game. People can start or stop playing for any reason, though; from it not being their cup of tea to their friend group moving on or whatever. I will tell you one thing I've found in my own anecdotal experience (again, limited solely to me) having played the game since the Classic Beta and on into Shadowlands: the number of truly new players seems very low to me. I know a handful of people who started playing in TBC, and even more who started during WotLK, but almost no one who started in Cata on into WoD, Legion, or BfA. Plenty of returning players, sure; people who played back in what I consider WoW's heyday but left for a variety of reasons, but almost no one who began playing in the past couple of years.

    Do they exist? I'm sure they do - but the numbers seem very small compared to veterans like myself or even those who are on-again and off-again from back in the day. And my story isn't going to be everyone's story in any case, I was just relating my own tale of melancholy and nostalgia related to what WoW once was and is today - which for me is a mix of good and bad, things missed and things enjoyed still.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    But thats only you and all the other veterans.

    What about new people who just started last year? or the year before that? etc. they havent played the game for a decade and they might not have kids and wives and fulltime jobs. They are literally in the same situation you were early on... so theres no reason why they wouldnt continue playing, right? the only thing that can keep those people playing is addicting game design, the type that got you into it and kept you in its grasp for years.

    So this good old "we are too old now"-explanation doesnt really work, its not like people who started in 2005 are the last generation to ever play WoW. :P
    Ive met people in classic who said they never had the chance to experience it so now they are trying it out. (at max level btw)
    Generation gap, other options for online play, lack of interest in an MMO, the catch up to max level, other prettier MMOs to choose from, growing up with social media so the desire to meet more people online isn't a new thing, games less of an upfront cost,etc. There's a large number of reasons why the new generation doesn't want to play World of Warcraft and microtransactions DEFINITELY isnt one of them


    Hell there was probably a slew of people like me who was more in it for the people the gameplay...no need for the people no need for the game.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    Remember the first store cosmetics? we still dont have anything like them ingame... those 3 hat transmogs. They are insanely cool and the only ones of their kind... only purchaseable from the store.
    Haha. No they aren't. They might have been "insanely cool" if you were 14 when they released, but now they're just high-school aged, terribly dated, ugly polygonal messes that struggle to match any transmog currently in the game. Similarly, I don't miss any of the store mounts, because they're mostly just average looking skins wrapped over models you can already access in game. These kind of complaints are just dumb because you don't go out to play Saturday football and complain that someone else has cooler looking boots than you and that Nike should be forced to provide you with better looking boots for $20 because someone else paid $300 for theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka
    Its like buying Witcher 3 dlc but you dont wanna play the maingame at all first, you just want a boost to the dlc zones with all abilities unlocked.
    I'd love for this to be an expectation moving forward if devs are going to continue to insist on taking paid DLC to the end of their games. I'd personally never buy DLC for an additional cost over a base game unless I had played the base game to the point where the DLC was actually playable. Instead, a game that should go on sale for $15 goes on sale for $25 with all the useless DLC bundled in and the vast majority of people who ever play the game don't even make it to the extra content that they purchased, which is inexcusable in my opinion.

  4. #204
    There is so much blind hate around modern WoW (+ nostalgia is always powerful tool), making money on that must be one of easiest job on planet.

    Baa, baa, WoW is so flashy now. Baa, baa, it's all about shop. Baa, baa, what a amazing original flashy youtube video from independent artist with million subs. Baa, baa, what is that, shop in video description? Must buy stuff from independed artist who opened my eyes about retail WoW.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Does a new character on TBC Classic Servers instantly become 58?

    No? Exactly.
    Is someone who pays a max level to boost them through dungeons to max level, experiencing the game the 'right way'?

    No? Exactly.

    The point is: All the reasons that people hate boosts, or claim they hate boosts is because:

    - people are skipping content
    - no one is out in the world
    - this isn't how the game was originally intended
    - etc, etc.

    But the fact is, no matter if you pay someone gold to run you through dungeons, or you pay blizzard to instantly become a new level, the end result is the same. You skipped content, you aren't out in the world, the game was not originally intended to be like this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Let me ask you "boost haters" a question.

    So I leveled during classic. In August of 2019, I created alliance and horde characters that I wanted to level. Two of each, as I was a dualboxxer. From August 2019, until about December 2019, I played religiously and leveled my 4 characters (2 horde, 2 alliance) to 47, and 53 respectively. One of my alliance characters had to be retired. So I made a new one and "boosted" her with my other alliance toon until the newbie was 51, the oldie was 55. Right before the prepatch. The newbie also PvP'ed enough to make Sergeant Major. When the prepatch hit, I boosted both my old toon and my newbie to 58 (from 51, and 55 respectively).

    Now tell me. What did I "take" from you? What did I "diminish" from your "accomplishments"? What did I "pay to win" by 'skipping' a few levels (literally)?

    Sure, I can understand the guy who boosted 1-60. But who's to say he didn't level 1-60 back in 2004? Maybe he had already played vanilla, and wanted to replay TBC instead.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by kneehidude View Post
    - no one is out in the world
    Aha, now explain how people who bought boost will "repopulate" EK/Kalimdor on TBC servers.

    It's exactly other way around. Outlands would be less empty.. for moment. Most common question about boost I heard was from people that wanted to try TBC (or got encouraged by friends really into Classic), but they must pass, cause they haven't played Classic. In most cases they are not people with free time, without boost they wouldn't spend months to catch up for TBC, but usually they pass on Outlands way sooner even after paying for boost.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Aha, now explain how people who bought boost will "repopulate" EK/Kalimdor on TBC servers.

    It's exactly other way around. Outlands would be less empty.. for moment. Most common question about boost I heard was from people that wanted to try TBC (or got encouraged by friends really into Classic), but they must pass, cause they haven't played Classic. In most cases they are not people with free time, without boost they wouldn't spend months to catch up for TBC, but usually they pass on Outlands way sooner even after paying for boost.
    I have pointed this out many times - some people are relying on this complete fallacy that every single person who paid for the boost would otherwise be leveling from lvl 1, and vanilla zones would be pumping! Just not the case. People got the boost because they didn't want to play from 1-58. That's literally why they paid for it - motivations might differ - maybe they wanted to swap mains, maybe they swapped factions, or servers, maybe they hated vanilla, never touched classic, but we're interested in TBCC. Either way, they did NOT want to level from 1-58, so without the boost, most if not all would not have leveled from 1-58 anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Carbot's "This is World of Warcraft" is definitely a tour de force in melancholy, with a biting critique at its core - and though I wouldn't fault him for having his own ideas or feelings about what may have led to WoW's current state, I don't really agree with his implied summation either. I won't deny that WoW isn't what it was population-wise at least in my own experience, which like everyone else's is entirely anecdotal and subjective. While a small knot of friends are still around and we play rather regularly, we no longer have the numbers to actually raid, and even getting together for a weekly spare of Mythic+ runs can be an issue. This isn't really WoW's fault - it's not boosting, or P2W, the cash shop, or the WoW token. It's just the nature of life and change, really. Back in 2005 through 2012, I used to be a pretty serious raider but today I'm about as casual as they come. The ability to commit time to WoW has been whittled away by life's many commitments. I got married in 2009, went through a number of workplace promotions from 2011 and on through to today, requiring more and more time on my part and leaving less free time for pursuits like WoW. My friends in WoW have the same stories over the nearly two decades that WoW has endured - having children, growing careers, moving upward and onward as time passed.

    I'll probably be playing WoW when that final expansion is launched at some future point, even if it's only an hour or two a month. I've played it since my mid-20's and on to today. It's like an old friend to me, even bereft of the rowdy crew I used to run with - I come back to it when I'm not busy with other games or hobbies. It's bittersweet to feel, or openly acknowledge, that WoW has likely entered into its autumnal days, but that too is the nature of these things. It's been and probably will continue to be a wild ride for some time, and if you're like me and still enjoy the game I think it'll have a lot to offer in the days to come.
    While there's certainly a very subjective element at the core of the critique ("my friends moved on from the game/we're older now/etc.") you can't really discount the systemic element otherwise these videos and "critiques" wouldn't be as numerous as they are. It's not just that some people have grown out of the game because they have less time now, it's also about desolate and empty server communities that have been dying a slow death since MoP (and haven't managed to return even when big launches brought in a lot of returning players). If you don't play on one of the biggest servers, this feeling portrayed in the video is very real and immediate. I also don't think the cash shop is the reason for WoW's decline but it clearly coincides with it. It's a symptom of the game bleeding players (i.e. revenue).

    What I think is more important are the declining RPG and social elements and the feeling of actually being part of a simulated world that has been lost over the years. It's the context which made people want to waste their lives in this world to begin with. To me, it's just very hard to believe that people with years of /played time invested in this world would merely quit because they're older now.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  9. #209
    Bloodsail Admiral ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Sucked. Wow has a lot of problems yes but man do people whine about random shit. Shop mounts, lfd, tokens... Why not whine about how much money ceo makes too?

  10. #210
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    "Optional vanity items" which affect the quality of the ingame achievables... its a hard concept to understand for some that microtransaction products must be better quality than ingame ones so they sell.

    Almost every store mount is a unique skin and an equivalant cannot be found anywhere else in the game... the only time we get unique skins ingame itself is maybe once per expansion, the rest are just reskins.

    Remember the first store cosmetics? we still dont have anything like them ingame... those 3 hat transmogs. They are insanely cool and the only ones of their kind... only purchaseable from the store.

    People will forever defend their store purchases so they dont feel bad about them.
    1.no they don't.
    2.no they arnt, many of the store mounts are not unique skins. I could go over every single one and show you the "skins" they are based on. Squeezers based on ratstallion. Dreadwake on stormchaser. Iron reaver on rylak. Sylvian dreamer on every dragon mount ever.
    3.lol we get tons of new unique mount skins ever expansion... Shadowlands we got the Taurus, the hand mount, the moth, the corpsefly, the gorm. Those are just off the top of my head and we went even through the expansion yet.
    4.you know you can buy store mounts with gold right just like rep mounts? The brutosaur is more expensive then all the store mounts combined.
    5.those insanely unique helmet cosmetics we never got anything like after? Except one of them we literally got nearly exactly as a venthry helmet. The other is a crown with a particle effect which tons of helmets have now, and the other is a ball with horns, again something we have had tons of, helmets with horns...
    6. Again you can buy them with gold...

    Maybe you attack them because you are way too low on cash. And gold. To be able to afford them?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    While there's certainly a very subjective element at the core of the critique ("my friends moved on from the game/we're older now/etc.") you can't really discount the systemic element otherwise these videos and "critiques" wouldn't be as numerous as they are. It's not just that some people have grown out of the game because they have less time now, it's also about desolate and empty server communities that have been dying a slow death since MoP (and haven't managed to return even when big launches brought in a lot of returning players). If you don't play on one of the biggest servers, this feeling portrayed in the video is very real and immediate. I also don't think the cash shop is the reason for WoW's decline but it clearly coincides with it. It's a symptom of the game bleeding players (i.e. revenue).

    What I think is more important are the declining RPG and social elements and the feeling of actually being part of a simulated world that has been lost over the years. It's the context which made people want to waste their lives in this world to begin with. To me, it's just very hard to believe that people with years of /played time invested in this world would merely quit because they're older now.
    People don't like to blame themselves. It's super common in people to instead of saying "I grew out of this" or "I don't have the time for this anymore" to instead say "it's boring now" and "it's bad now" that way you can naturally put up a barrier.

    Instead of you being unable to do the thing you liked for one reason or another, it's easier for you to cope with "I just don't like it anymore"

    It's like a breakup, it's much easier to say the breakup was mutual, and you even convince yourself of that, cause deep down you know it wasn't mutual, you still liked them, but it will be easier for you if you just push that down and say it was mutual, cause then you won't miss them, you won't feel bad they arnt there.

    It's just how the human psyche works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  11. #211
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    But vanilla is part of TBC... TBC is an expansion, not a sequel to a game. Its like buying Witcher 3 dlc but you dont wanna play the maingame at all first, you just want a boost to the dlc zones with all abilities unlocked.
    The absolute Irony of you saying this, IS YOU CAN JUST BOOST AND PLAY THE DLC in Witcher 3. You can literally make a premade high level character just to play Blood and Wine.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan2 View Post
    and the fact that they are means something needs to change.
    Yes, they need to stop being salty about irrelevant shit

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by kneehidude View Post
    Is someone who pays a max level to boost them through dungeons to max level, experiencing the game the 'right way'?

    No? Exactly.
    They're using the game as it is laid out, the method is questionable but ultimately are using ingame mechanics as they were back then and also engage in an ingame transaction with another player.

    This isn't about the "right way" to level a character, but the logic that "TBC starts at 58" is undermined by the fact that every character even on TBC servers starts at one, thus the logic that TBC starts at 58 is not fulfilled.
    Quote Originally Posted by kneehidude View Post
    But the fact is, no matter if you pay someone gold to run you through dungeons, or you pay blizzard to instantly become a new level, the end result is the same.
    So, if Blizzard sold lootboxes for Castle Nathria on the cashshop, then it's the same as boosting services and thus completely fine?
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-06-21 at 07:32 AM.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Does a new character on TBC Classic Servers instantly become 58?

    No? Exactly.
    do people who play tbc and didnt play vanila,cared about vanila or the actual tbc content?

    No? uhm...you know!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    >Content creator goes out of his way to support Blizzard for years and years on end despite the criticism even before getting a contract with blizzard. Keeps going the extra mile for several more years and tries to be positive despite everything

    >Makes one sad video illustrating his melancholia regarding the current state of the game

    >"lmao blizzard hater lol"
    to be fair the entire ''skip to the end'' part is either huge ignorance or blatant dishonesty

    is clear he did the video because its popular to hate on popular things

    in no world is a damn 58 boost with lvl 30 greens a ''skip to the end button''.it doesnt even get you to the damn starting line as that gear is literaly worse than any crap a normal 58 would ever have

  15. #215
    Bloodsail Admiral Viikkis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    is clear he did the video because its popular to hate on popular things
    I think a guy like him who's done really close collaboration with Blizzard would think twice before jumping on a hatewagon that could damage his business.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    do people who play tbc and didnt play vanila,cared about vanila or the actual tbc content?

    No? uhm...you know!
    Dumbass logic, unless you're willing to pay an additional fee, the game doesn't give a fuck whether you care about Classic content.
    (Putting aside that the game still wants you to level through Classic on the profession aspect, Blood elves & Draenei and every alt you create in the future)

    You start at one, like any other character.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    to be fair the entire ''skip to the end'' part is either huge ignorance or blatant dishonesty

    is clear he did the video because its popular to hate on popular things

    in no world is a damn 58 boost with lvl 30 greens a ''skip to the end button''.it doesnt even get you to the damn starting line as that gear is literaly worse than any crap a normal 58 would ever have
    I'll have to keep repeating myself.

    Sure, whenever someone has a different opinion about something, it's just because it's popular, views, likes etc. It's not because maaaaybeee he's just passionate about the game and dislikes those things. Nah, that can't be it. /s

    That "skip to the ending" part wasn't part of the level boost by the way. It was a separate thing in the video and a little bit of exaggeration. It was supposed to summarize all these boosts, "free" mounts, simplifications under this banner (or stand, as it is in the video). These things help you skip HUGE parts of the game (grinding/farming for mount, leveling, etc.) and "boosts" you NEARLY to the end, so in it's own way, it can be described as a skip to the ending.

    But some people are oversensitive over any criticism towards their Blizzard gods and can't handle different opinions
    Last edited by Mahcake; 2021-06-21 at 08:08 AM.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    most if not all would not have leveled from 1-58 anyway.
    I mean, if we're just going to make things up based on how we feel, whats the point?

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    ....aaaand it ends with more boost/store mount whining, lmao. Inaccurate whining too, since it has "skip to the ending".....leveling 1 character to 58 isn't skipping to the ending.

    People will just forever be salty about optional vanity items, won't they?
    Gotta love retail players telling us what we should and shouldn't like. You were opposed to Classic as a concept weren't you?

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Everything you are saying is made up. It is interesting how much confidence you say it with though. I believe you believe what you are saying is true, even though it's a complete guess that you have put absolutely no effort into validating.
    exactly. this is my 'made up' opinion that I've come to after years of looking at other people's point of views on various subjects regarding WoW. the more time you spend doing something the more confident you are, simple.

    'put no effort into validating'

    I mentioned in another post that you can't explain this issue in a forum post. if you could, then we wouldn't be arguing right now. people have tried it, it doesn't work. Asmongold is the member of the community who has put in the most effort into explaining the issue as detailed as possible. check out his twitch or youtube if you want to learn more about it.

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