This is World of Warcraft - Carbot new video

[khazmodan]

I think a guy like him who's done really close collaboration with Blizzard would think twice before jumping on a hatewagon that could damage his business.

Totally agree, this is a person feeling sad about friends lost as the company lost focus on what is important to players. I have bought store mounts and I have done plenty of random dungeons and LFR but the loss of community, and the loss of the incredible excitement of what Blizzard will do next is like realizing that you are too old to go trick or treating any more and losing the belief in Santa and realizing the toys under the tree are no longer there.

It was a helluva good time to make friends and have fun with friends but the magic we saw was a hell of a lot of talented people working there tails off and they are mostly gone now.

[Otrew]

Without boosts citys would have less people on them a lot less.i did not want to play vanilla , payed a boost and took me 10 days to hit 70 and i enjoy a lot, found a nice guild and im having a blast. in retail because also i have a nice guild i avoid a lot automatic groups, some of our players are boost of different expansions in the end more people= more chances to find people to play with.

[arkanon]

I mean, if we're just going to make things up based on how we feel, whats the point?

People are paying money to avoid leveling from 1-58, and yet you genuinely believe if the boost didn't exist they would be doing it? It makes no sense, they could do it now, for free, but would literally rather pay to not do it.

[Hellobolis]

So, if Blizzard sold lootboxes for Castle Nathria on the cashshop, then it's the same as boosting services and thus completely fine?

if the pricing is the same or higher than boosts that might be fun to see actually. $1000 mythic raid lootbox that'll be some sweet PR.

[Delever]

A lot of you seem to despise MMOs and for some reason want to play them. Every single thing that made an MMO give the experience that a coop game could not give has almost entirely been removed from the game in favor of zoomer-style convenience.
And believe it or not this has driven a lot of the original players away. I cannot speak for all players but I can speak for the ones I know. What is the purpose of an MMORPG if you put so much convenience in it that you can basically never interact with anyone unless you do the absolute highest difficulty of group content which most people dont even wanna do anymore because all it does is give you an uglier armor tint that otherwise looks identical to the 3 faceroll difficulties before it.
I dont bash people for what they like and you can like whatever you want but if you despise leveling, despise long travels through the world, despise interacting with people to find a dungeon group then why choose to play an MMORPG instead of a lobby coop game or a single player game? The original aspects of an MMO are currently non existent in retail other than seeing random AFKs in Oribos. Community is not a thing anymore as servers have become giant clusterfucks of pools of people from all over the place. I like to play with my friends also and we can do that in both a coop game and an MMO. The difference is that in an MMO I expect to find a living, breathing world. A world that prompts you to interact with other players in one way or another. Inb4 "some people dont want to interact" ok thats perfectly fine. But a genre whose entire gimmick was forcing player interaction to create a living world should not cater to people who do not wish to interact. You can still try and play that way if you wish but it should not be the same as choosing to group and should come with obvious drawbacks.
The video is heavily implying that the game has changed to something a lot more soulless and asocial. And while a lot of things like harmless store mounts etc do not really create an apparent problem they do subconsciously change the perception of the game for a lot of players. Just walking around in capitals I see so much sparkle and glitter from over the top looking mounts that I can no almost no longer distinguish where they are coming from and everything kinda starts losing value and you no longer look at things in an exciting way.

[Kralljin]

if the pricing is the same or higher than boosts that might be fun to see actually. $1000 mythic raid lootbox that'll be some sweet PR.

It would however mean that Blizzard effectively throws all pretense aside and outright sells power on the store, which is pay to win. Period.

And no philosophical musings about "what is exactly "winning" in an MMO?" changes that.

People are paying money to avoid leveling from 1-58, and yet you genuinely believe if the boost didn't exist they would be doing it? It makes no sense, they could do it now, for free, but would literally rather pay to not do it.

I think the assumption that only some small minority would have leveled a character for TBC without the boost is very dishonest, because a lot of people frankly did use the boost as an excuse to not level a character.
Leveling was very much rejuvenated by the pre patch, showcasing that a lot of people were interested in leveling a character in preperation for TBC, dismissing all of these people is just not fair.
That's not even mentioning the throng of BE's / Draenei where the boost is not an option.

When you're looking at a 150h-200h "grind" in a game with a monthly sub, then to pretend that it's somehow "free" is disingenuous, a lot of people used their hourly wages to justify the purchase of the boost ("I earn X/h, why shouldn't i spend 40 bucks to save myself 150+ hours?) and that even disregards the people that would have had to resub in order to level a character.
Unless you manage to level one in less than three months (which is by Classic standards about 1-2h/day of leveling) you break about even with the boost purely from a monetary standpoint - "free" is absolutely the wrong term here.

And no, i'm not defending the boost, but pretending that the option to level a character manually was somehow "free" is just plain false.

[Laurathansal]

....aaaand it ends with more boost/store mount whining, lmao. Inaccurate whining too, since it has "skip to the ending".....leveling 1 character to 58 isn't skipping to the ending.

People will just forever be salty about optional vanity items, won't they?

You haven't played since Vanilla have you?

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The response in this thread pretty much splits the players who have played for 5-7 years or less, from the ones who play this game since it began or nearly.

I started playing in early 2005, and the video pretty much nails it for me. It is not ranting at all, If a lot of people like the way the game is today, this is fine! But the game hit 10 Million players globally with the old ways of simply being a fantastic MMORPG, and that was the way many of us who are still around preferred it to be.

You like your M+, your teleport to dungeon, your store mounts, wow tokens, and especially the borrowed power systems, legendaries etc? Cool, good for you! But there is a much bigger player base than the current one that disappeared over the years because WoW changed so much, and to the worse in most of these people's opinion. I am included in this group.

Respect everyone's opinion though.

[TBCCLOL]

You haven't played since Vanilla have you?

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The response in this thread pretty much splits the players who have played for 5-7 years or less, from the ones who play this game since it began or nearly.

I started playing in early 2005, and the video pretty much nails it for me. It is not ranting at all, If a lot of people like the way the game is today, this is fine! But the game hit 10 Million players globally with the old ways of simply being a fantastic MMORPG, and that was the way many of us who are still around preferred it to be.

You like your M+, your teleport to dungeon, your store mounts, wow tokens, and especially the borrowed power systems, legendaries etc? Cool, good for you! But there is a much bigger player base than the current one that disappeared over the years because WoW changed so much, and to the worse in most of these people's opinion. I am included in this group.

Respect everyone's opinion though.

One, if not the only reasonable post in the entire thread.


Also people need to stop arguing/responding to FelPlague, it is a waste of time.

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No wonder a more social game like FF is doing better than Retail, also isnt curious how

FF has like 2 milion* player base

Retail lets say 1.9 milion*

and Classic/TBC has 1.5 milion*

So basically there are 2+1.5 million players that doesnt like Retail for reasons, and 1.5 prefer an older version of the game. Curious isnt it?


*made up numbers cuz i dont have the article link

[Daymanmb]

People are paying money to avoid leveling from 1-58, and yet you genuinely believe if the boost didn't exist they would be doing it? It makes no sense, they could do it now, for free, but would literally rather pay to not do it.

I didnt actually state what I believe, thats a non-sequitur.. Im poiting out the fallacy of your opinion that, "most if not all would not have leveled from 1-58 anyway", because youre making that up. You do not know one way or another if most if not all would level, or not level, if a boost didnt exist.

I mean, if you can back up your claim with something other than your feelings, Id be open to explore it further, but until then youre just making things up.

[Ludek]

Oh well, 12 years later and people are still whining about dungeon finder... because spamming trade for X time to form a group was such a game enhancing experience... muh community and all.

[TheLucky1]

We have absolutely no idea of how many new players join and how many quit. We've only known how many players are playing at a specific date and time. That's how numbers work.

It's very possible that more players quit during WotLK than any other expansion. The game was newer and Blizz was doing a lot of marketing for WoW back then. It's completely plausible that more players joined AND quit during Wrath than are playing now.

Did someone pick up on your point again? I think this would be extremely interesting to know/discuss.
All Online games have an easier time in their early stages/honeymoon because not everyone has known and or tried it yet, this was especially the case for WoW back then i think (sure there was EQ and so on before that but WoW hit a sweet spot with 2004-2010).

I mean it's hard to interpret and constructively discuss with the low amount of data we have, but we know there where over a 100million individual accounts that tried WoW in cata, i have no idea if this is bloated or not for online games in general but the fact that Blizz hasn't announced 200million yet (if that's even feasible) likely means that new influx of players has slowed down drastically which is pretty standard for aging games (everyone and their mom knows about it, everyone tried it, etc.)

Would be funny if the retention/quit rate of modern WoW is pretty much the same or even better than in 2004-2010 era and the subscriber numbers just got carried by swarms of new players back then... (which guess what, wouldn't be possible nowadays even if we got 3 banger expansions in a row simply due to WoW's age and how product life-cycles work)

[arkanon]

I didnt actually state what I believe, thats a non-sequitur.. Im poiting out the fallacy of your opinion that, "most if not all would not have leveled from 1-58 anyway", because youre making that up. You do not know one way or another if most if not all would level, or not level, if a boost didnt exist.

I mean, if you can back up your claim with something other than your feelings, Id be open to explore it further, but until then youre just making things up.

But I do - they paid for the boost. They chose to pay money, rather than level for free. It's honestly that simple.

[Daymanmb]

But I do - they paid for the boost. They chose to pay money, rather than level for free. It's honestly that simple.

And I just remembered why I have you on ignore... god damn youre stupid..

[TBCCLOL]

Oh well, 12 years later and people are still whining about dungeon finder... because spamming trade for X time to form a group was such a game enhancing experience... muh community and all.

The issue, that is poorly represented, is that LFG + Xrealm is the issue not LFG, if you get matched with people from the same server is no biggy

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We have absolutely no idea of how many new players join and how many quit. We've only known how many players are playing at a specific date and time. That's how numbers work.

It's very possible that more players quit during WotLK than any other expansion. The game was newer and Blizz was doing a lot of marketing for WoW back then. It's completely plausible that more players joined AND quit during Wrath than are playing now.

The fact that blizzard isnt givin the # sub since decades and the MUA fetish, is pretty self explainatory.

[Cazze]

Did you even watch the whole video? It's not just microtransactions but the dungeon finder, raid finder, tokens etc. It's pathetic they even added level boost to an old version of the game. So sad.

Retail is just a massive cash grab now with expansions that have less and less content each year.

If there were no dungeon finders, this game wouldn't have stayed so popular so many years. Finders are a blessing you simply can not comprehend.

[Akka]

Damn, this video hits a little too close to home for comfort.
Pretty good anyway, and capture beautifully the feelings and spirit of the situation.

[Asrialol]

The issue, that is poorly represented, is that LFG + Xrealm is the issue not LFG, if you get matched with people from the same server is no biggy

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The fact that blizzard isnt givin the # sub since decades and the MUA fetish, is pretty self explainatory.

With how the gaming industry have changed, it is indeed self explainatory. Is that what you meant, or are you saying it's somehow "evidence" of shit going worse? They're making more money off the game than before, so it only makes sense to talk about what actually matters, which isn't sub numbers. Or?

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You haven't played since Vanilla have you?

- - - Updated - - -

The response in this thread pretty much splits the players who have played for 5-7 years or less, from the ones who play this game since it began or nearly.

I started playing in early 2005, and the video pretty much nails it for me. It is not ranting at all, If a lot of people like the way the game is today, this is fine! But the game hit 10 Million players globally with the old ways of simply being a fantastic MMORPG, and that was the way many of us who are still around preferred it to be.

You like your M+, your teleport to dungeon, your store mounts, wow tokens, and especially the borrowed power systems, legendaries etc? Cool, good for you! But there is a much bigger player base than the current one that disappeared over the years because WoW changed so much, and to the worse in most of these people's opinion. I am included in this group.

Respect everyone's opinion though.

That's speculation, but the way you've phrased your post makes it seem as if you're saying it's a fact. There's absolutely no way for you to know this, since people who are on forums, fansites, reddit, youtube, twitch etc are a tiny minority of the playerbase; always has been. So, if this somehow isn't speculation; how on earth can you come to such a conclusion?

[Delever]

Oh well, 12 years later and people are still whining about dungeon finder... because spamming trade for X time to form a group was such a game enhancing experience... muh community and all.

It kind of was. It forced you to interact with people and because of the time it took it also often made people be more tolerant towards others that were not so good and even help them to get better along the run so they can keep going instead of having to find a new one. I had many such occasions in tbc when I started playing. The lfg creates a gogogogo mentality where everyone is easily replaceable at any point and gives room to a lot more toxicity while removing any form of interaction.

[Laurathansal]

With how the gaming industry have changed, it is indeed self explainatory. Is that what you meant, or are you saying it's somehow "evidence" of shit going worse? They're making more money off the game than before, so it only makes sense to talk about what actually matters, which isn't sub numbers. Or?

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That's speculation, but the way you've phrased your post makes it seem as if you're saying it's a fact. There's absolutely no way for you to know this, since people who are on forums, fansites, reddit, youtube, twitch etc are a tiny minority of the playerbase; always has been. So, if this somehow isn't speculation; how on earth can you come to such a conclusion?

I get what you are saying! I really respect what you mean. But I firmly believe in the statement purely because older versions of the game were played by a far greater number of people who play the current one. That alone tells me people preferred the way the game was, and I can back that by the hype and player numbers generated by WoW Classic, number of twitch views, etc.

[Prag]

It kind of was. It forced you to interact with people and because of the time it took it also often made people be more tolerant towards others that were not so good and even help them to get better along the run so they can keep going instead of having to find a new one. I had many such occasions in tbc when I started playing. The lfg creates a gogogogo mentality where everyone is easily replaceable at any point and gives room to a lot more toxicity while removing any form of interaction.

I’ve seen no proof of it improving community.

- Jumped into an H Shattered, Druid mispulled one pack, the group disbanded.
- As a DPS, groups fill quickly, most whispers go in-responded to.
- People calling out behavior (eg ninja’ing primals) either get ridiculed or ignored

People claim it’s harder to shake a reputation, but can’t you force a name change by just deleting your character, making a new lvl 1 with that name, and restoring the deleted one? A trade scammer on my server had a new name every week, this was just a guess at how.

I think Dungeon Finder removing agency of building the group is a massive downside - I wouldn’t use it. But I don’t think spamming /4 builds community or anything.