[9.1 spoilers] Arbiter's reason for bluescreen confirmed??

[Fuiking]

I kind of gave up on WoW... mostly health reasons.. but another part is that everything is stale and already told.. and every.. bloody....expansion is about a new enemy on the horizon.

[TheFirstOnes]

What gets me the most about this by far is what @Polybius pointed out. Nevermind what you think about the cosmic fare - I've gone from finding it tiresome to finding it a welcome reprieve from the Azeroth main cast who bore me to tears. The difference in the verbiage of documents like this compared to the camp Saturday morning dialogue in the cutscenes is night and day. Compare the writing of those books - characterizing the one writing it, incoherent at times to show the narrator's position and later being used to set up his views on life and layer the world to arch declarative statements about how X was behind it all along.

Past just being a better style I'd appreciate them rebuilding the mystique after fucking up the Titans entirely, or I would if I didn't fully expect them to be big dudes speaking in one liners anywhere from a patch to an expansion from now. The ideal First One lore is for them to appear only in things like this and never speak. Conceptually the Dreadlord retcon is better than them being underwhelming Legion goons and gels better with how they were in WC3, it's only faults are in execution, those being bland dialogue and going for scale over coherence. Neither a grand declaration here or having them all in on this huge plan all along was needed - having them been sent as infiltrators originally made by Denathrius to advance his goals, have them split up to join other powers, for real or as deep cover operatives and now to come back together now that all other competitors are gone would've been more than enough.

I agree.

I personally love books like these rather than most of the lore. It's interesting, expands upon the current lore, and the way the Broker writes things out is VERY complex and interesting, while also setting up a lot of future things to come.

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Those might be the Xel'naga or Amon

Never compare them to anything in WoW.

[Shaetha]

I've given up on this community's complaints counting for anything after they complained about a patch coming earlier than expected.

No one's opinion counts for anything after that. It's hard proof that WoW forumgoers will complain about literally anything.

[TheFirstOnes]

sooo, a seventh cosmic force or a seventh first one
seems like we are slowly being introduced to the next big enemy after the void lords boys
cant wait for the big bad behind that in the next 5 years lmao

7th Cosmic Force is prolly something akin to what originated the Elements, like a balancing factor that keeps the forces together.

Reminder, the Void Lords are already powerful as is, since they're basically like the Outer Gods, meaning whoever rules over the Void Lords should be akin to Azathoth, maybe a lil nerfed but still.

But whatever happens, I think the confirmation is that the First Ones came FIRST and shared no identity (The identity being given to Brokers and the Cosmic Pantheons as a sign of giving off comprehension to a power that is incomprehensible), they made the 6 Forces (Possibly a 7th one that represents as an artifact of the Geometry), the forces were imbalanced so they went together to give it form. They gave their design a structure (AKA a form/formation), and that caused things such as the cycle of Life and Death, Order and Disorder, Light and Shadow, the Cosmic Big Bang, etc.

The Sepulcher is what the First Ones used to keep the knowledge of their designs and crafts together. If Zovaal claims the Sepulcher, their framework is destroyed, the Cosmic Forces go into chaos again, Zovaal claims all the powers and consumes them as the true lord of Death, and all that the First Ones designed would be gone. The 7th Power is likely the string that balances the Cosmic Powers out.

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You get what I mean?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

huh?did sargareas know that?wasnt he just being decieved?

if not i dont really see the issue here,there is no entirely different thing,they were working under him and had their own agenda,that also happens all the time in the real world also

The issue is that it changes the lore from it being reason A to reason B. This isn't an issue of "and the dreadlords were also there when it happened" rather it's an issue of "nope, it was the dreadlords who actually pulled the strings" and that makes it a retcon. It's that simple.

I mean if the Legion was and the dreadlords were high-ranking legion agents?

Not that this makes it any less stupid..

Well I guess I mean more-so about the implication of the Dreadlords going to other timelines and doing shenanigans and what that outcome could be. Right now we know of the Lightbound being a potential antagonizing force for us to deal with... I wonder what other enemies in other timelines have been fooled around with.

[Houle]

Those might be the Xel'naga or Amon

wonderful!
so in 10y we can have a sylvanas comeback, where she turns into light sylvanas and one-shots them
sooo excited

[starstationprofm]

This kind of cheapens all of the world-ending/life-threatening experiences we've faced in the past.


"LOL IT WAS THE DREADLORDS ALL ALONG" is a really, really, lame retcon.


Also... "across all realities" line is interesting. Does this imply the dreadlords have been to other timelines?

What retcon? It's been foreshadowed since Legion.

The Cunning Ones kneel before 6 masters but serve only one.

[Kithelle]

I mean if the Legion was and the dreadlords were high-ranking legion agents?

Not that this makes it any less stupid..

No more Sargeras...Eradar generals gone....I'd think they'd practically be free to do whatever they want

[KOUNTERPARTS]

What retcon? It's been foreshadowed since Legion.

The Cunning Ones kneel before 6 masters but serve only one.

The quote foreshadows their true allegiance... not them being the actual direct reason for the creation of the Burning Legion, creation of the Scourge, and whatever it means by Argus.

[shoc]

The red bolt being Argus, and the whole thing orchestrated by the Dreadlords to serve Denathrius by causing an Anima drought was obvious from day 1.

Imagine thinking it was Xavius hahahahahaha

[Thetruth1400]

My biggest gripe with this is once again we leave the McGuffin completely unguarded for someone to just waltz in and take with absolutely no resistance.

Frankly, the "Lul, the big bad just took the item you left unguarded which is JUST the item they needed for their plan to progress." is stale. We see it at least 2 times an expansion at this point.

[Romanthony]

This is gettign so bad now, The lore, just keeps getting worse. I used to love the stories warcraft had but not its just going down hill fast. Why Retcon the dreadlords. And why make the Shadowlands, so convulated... Why must XX be a pawn for XX but really they too was a pawn, Can we just hire new writers please?

[Auxis]

The red bolt being Argus, and the whole thing orchestrated by the Dreadlords to serve Denathrius by causing an Anima drought was obvious from day 1.

Imagine thinking it was Xavius hahahahahaha

ATM, I'm wondering if Argus is somewhere in the Shadowlands/Maw, or if he just passed through the Shadowlands and has gone off to the Titan afterlife.

[Xilurm]

Imagine getting rid of the myth of the Titans, of Sargeras, the Old Gods.... for this. For the Jailer, the most uninteresting, lame characters that has ZERO background lore.

[Venziir]

Big, red, screaming soul - that hit the Arbiter sometime during Legion... And you guys are surprised it's Argus? Come now...

[Xilurm]

What retcon? It's been foreshadowed since Legion.

The Cunning Ones kneel before 6 masters but serve only one.

Yeah, and that's the start of the retcon that does away a decade plus of lore. Legion wasn't that long ago.

[Venziir]

This is gettign so bad now, The lore, just keeps getting worse. I used to love the stories warcraft had but not its just going down hill fast. Why Retcon the dreadlords. And why make the Shadowlands, so convulated... Why must XX be a pawn for XX but really they too was a pawn, Can we just hire new writers please?

They were always supposed to be this evil race of manipulators. If anything, this is more true to their origin, where as the retcon would be the part from TBC where they were pawns too. Being servants of Denathrius, and thus the Jailor, makes perfect sense and even explains why they were the guardians of the Lich King too - much better than having them be snarky demons. This also explains why they have vampiric powers.

[starstationprofm]

Yeah, and that's the start of the retcon that does away a decade plus of lore. Legion wasn't that long ago.

What was retconned exactly?

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The quote foreshadows their true allegiance... not them being the actual direct reason for the creation of the Burning Legion, creation of the Scourge, and whatever it means by Argus.

Isn't the "Dreadlords made Sargeras evil" the original background for Sargeras and the Legion?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Isn't the "Dreadlords made Sargeras evil" the original background for Sargeras and the Legion?

Ironically, that was the original lore behind it and that was retconned.


It was originally stated in the Warcraft III manual that Sargeras fell into despair due to the endless evil of the demonic eredar and nathrezim, and that he abandoned the Pantheon due to coming to believe that the titan's vision of an ordered universe was impossible and pointless — that chaos and depravity were the only absolutes.


So not really the nathrezim directly casting a spell going "wibble weeble, you are now evil" and made him evil. Just indirect corruption.

[Xilurm]

What was retconned exactly?

Well certainly the whole "Nathrezim show Sargeras mUh vOiD and he shits himself in the process."