Rae'shalare, Death's Whisper

[cparle87]

Again, Nathanos had two pet dogs and also used 2 axes (we really need dualwield survival at this point). Similiary, Sylvanas also uses two daggers - so all three specs would fit a dark ranger skin, not only MM.

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Also, Blizzard needs to re-add the ranged slot atleast for hunters. I really want to be able to wear both close combat weapons on my hips aswell as my bow. And give us the option to have a cape and backpack goodies, similiar to the two shoulders option.

Agreed. I know things like 2h & DW for all DK specs were horrifically hard to balance but there does need to be more freedom. 2H enhancement, melee weapons for hunters, ranged slots for rogues and warriors back, maybe even DW for pallies and druids. We technically were DWing fists and daggers in Legion... and now we can't cause you can't mog 2H weapons into 1H at all still.

[THC BANDIT]

A lot of different opinions in here i respect that. As people probably can tell im pretty hyped about being able to be a Dark Ranger. I could see dark ranger becoming a 4th spec for hunter. But i will say, even though that is what i want to play as, i would be happy with any new class tbh. Tinker i can imagine what would be like which is interesting. Im having a bit harder time imagining the dragonsworn, but that may be because i dont have anything to go off from in the WoW universe.

[Syegfryed]

So, it's just an aesthetic difference? because that's the only things you listed. Robe, staff, spellcasting. You couldn't really list anything other than summoning minions - which, are undead. Think about it.

It is literally a gameplay difference, are you for real?

one is a caster focusing on spellcasting the other is a melee who fight with a 2h weapon

the concept, aesthetic and gameplay is totally different, stop ignoring things to fit your argument.

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Considering the fact that Blizzard themselves have made a dagger wielding melee dps necromancer makes me think perhaps your definition is a bit too narrow.

what?

10/chars

[username993720]

Hahahahaha no. Sylvanas is a Banshee/Dark Ranger with some extra maw juice right now. Nathanos would be your average DR. Like seriously, Nathanos is THE Dark Ranger trainer ingame since classic. I'm a huge DR/Sylvanas fangirl, but honestly .... they are just undead hunters, sorry. They just need to do a questchain similiar to warlock green fire to allow for some shadowy effects aswell as some undead customization for blood elfs / night elfs, not a whole new class.

The Warcraft 3 unit is that of an undead high elf (Sylvanas), not an undead human.
The Heroes of the Storm representative for the class is Sylvanas, not Nathanos.
Nathanos is a rather recent development and should not be taken as a representative.

It is literally a gameplay difference, are you for real?

one is a caster focusing on spellcasting the other is a melee who fight with a 2h weapon

the concept, aesthetic and gameplay is totally different, stop ignoring things to fit your argument.

So why can't you list anything different from the Death Knight, ability-wise?

[Syegfryed]

So why can't you list anything different from the Death Knight, ability-wise?

i literally did, you just ignored.

A necromancer does not hit people with "necrotic strike" with a big ass 2h. period.

[username993720]

i literally did, you just ignored.

A necromancer does not hit people with "necrotic strike" with a big ass 2h. period.

That's not an ability. That's a combat style.

[Falkeshall]

@Syegfryed There's no point arguing with the self-appointed Kings of Lore when Blizzard can just invent any old shit and hand-wave it away with "this happens now" because it's all fictional.

[Syegfryed]

That's not an ability. That's a combat style.

a combat style is literally an an ability, it is a straight up difference in their concept, theme and gameplay that make then different, you are again, nittpicking.

@Syegfryed There's no point arguing with the self-appointed Kings of Lore when Blizzard can just invent any old shit and hand-wave it away with "this happens now" because it's all fictional.

He may think Blizzard can't change something he does not like

[Dwimmerlaik]

Do you think this is a sign of dark rangers coming at some point? maybe not this expansion.

Or do you think its just something to give us because she is a raidboss and will ofcourse drop her weapon upon being killed. I think its a pretty cool drop and it does look pretty wicked

https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=186414/...per?bonus=6805

Please explain the thought process that saw a raidboss drop and immediately went "OMG DARK RANGERS?"

Seriously, I want to know how you jumped to that conclusion. It's a bow.

[username993720]

a combat style is literally an an ability, it is a straight up difference in their concept, theme and gameplay that make then different, you are again, nittpicking.

I need more than that. Otherwise, we'd have a spellcaster and melee versions for everyone:
A plate/mail wearing, melee mage.
A plate/mail wearing, melee Void class.
A cloth wearing Poison spellcaster.

[Alkizon]

Why didn't that topic please you? Are you afraid that your thoughts may get lost there, but here they will surely "survive"? It's unlikely.

Still think that goblins/gnomes/forsaken hunters are big mistake. Ones for the first two would be perfectly replaced by tinkers, and for latter - by dark rangers... that's all, and lore is in order and less weird moves during dances from tambourines around style and racial characteristics. Once again I'll clarify for the sake of decency, to replace not because of "similarity", but because of the inappropriateness of incongruity of certain mechanics.

ps. Can they do some stuff? - Yes. - Will it be good? - I strongly doubt it.

Dwimmerlaik
It's a bow.

It's good to know, that Cap is watching our back

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username993720
As for Gnome/Goblin/Forsaken, they're not a mistake.

They are a mistake in the first and foremost because these races don't fit with main lore component of hunter class.

Imperator4321
Hunter class is based on the Ranger class from D&D which has (mostly) been a divine (nature) half-caster that got druid spells. Hunter can be seen as the martial equivalent to the druid same way the paladin is a more martial priest, the Druid is overtly a spellcaster while the Hunter uses it in more subtle ways such as imbuing their arrows with magic, taking on the aspects of certain animals and forming magical bonds with beasts.

Triceron
Hunters use traps and animal pets, have a strong connection to beasts and the wilds, and they're themed on survival and resourcefulness. Dark Rangers are very much themed more as shadowy assassins fueled by hatred and vengeance, using their own torment to cause pain and fear to their enemies. I think these are very different concepts at the core which can't be ignored and simply equated as a Hunter specialization.

Gnomes and goblins will conditionally have problems of complementation and lack of interest in having something like that at all, but they compensate for such a lack ("disadvantages") by ownership and manipulation of technologies (which in turn is either difficult or not necessary for the rest races) for their own full-fledged implementation
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yes, I’m talking, for example, about draenei (they do tech, but mostly don’t need personal mechanical stuff), however for tinkers it would be much more appropriate to put in 3rd slot not real mech-suit itself, but cyber kit with gadgets manipulators and other nonsense, while vehicles will remain means of transportation; but devs buried 3rd slot (after reading today another one of topics about poor surv hunters, who were turned into this(=current) nasty perversion) so this gap in equipment mechanics haunts them to this day, they continue to fail without it, but they are too narrow-minded to fix everything as it was
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You can call it "overcompensation", if you like, although of course it's not, rather "historical balance", just first thing that came to mind. And forsaken simply won't fully form/implement connection of original part of hunters with "druidism's" harmony with nature, they are aliens at this party of life, but dark rangers will allow not only to preserve racial purity of origin of these dangerous creatures, but also to fill gap created by absence of hunters.

So: Hunters/Tinkers/DRs. It's simple, you just need to have balls to make a full-fledged and meaningful decision, but for an obvious reason, devs have long been deprived of those.

[username993720]

Why didn't that topic please you? Are you afraid that your thoughts may get lost there, but here they will surely "survive"? It's unlikely.

Still think that goblins/gnomes/forsaken hunters are big mistake. Ones for the first two would be perfectly replaced by tinkers, and for latter - by dark rangers... that's all, and lore is in order and less weird moves during dances from tambourines around style and racial characteristics. Once again I'll clarify for the sake of decency, to replace not because of "similarity", but because of the inappropriateness of incongruity of certain mechanics.

ps. Can they do some stuff? - Yes. - Will it be good? - I strongly doubt it.
It's good to know, that Cap is watching our back

Damn, man... you're awfully specific.

As for Gnome/Goblin/Forsaken, they're not a mistake. They are there to supplement the absence of classes like Tinker and Dark Ranger. But, fear not. Because they do not overlap whatsoever. And you wanna know why? Because the Ranger can be taken out of the Hunter in favor of a Dark Ranger & Priestess of the Moon class, while the Hunter remains a Beastmaster, Sapper and Headhunter. As for the Tinker, the only part that would really overlap would be the explosives. There are plenty of other aspects to that class that cannot be fulfilled by the Hunter.

[Ielenia]

If they say no to necromancers they have to say no to fucking dark rangers too.

Besides, that is not even look like Sylvanus bow, what a garbage.

Except... as far as I know, Blizzard never said "no" to necromancers?

[MrLachyG]

It’s all levels according to Wowhead’s datamining. The LFR version is lower ilevel though

there's no LFR version. it's only Normal and higher. I was on the PTR yesterday and it is not in the LFR loot table for Sylvanas

[Lady Atia]

If they say no to necromancers they have to say no to fucking dark rangers too.

Besides, that is not even look like Sylvanus bow, what a garbage.

It actually looks like her bow? She uses that model alongside her Maw gear in Shadowlands, and the bow model itself was datamined during 9.0 already.

PS: Her name is Sylvanas.

[justandulas]

Except... as far as I know, Blizzard never said "no" to necromancers?

they never did rule it out, but unless unholy DK gets a complete rework like my former demo lock spec (rip) did then we can forget the dream necromancer class ever hitting WoW.

shame really since WoW could use more ranged classes

[Ielenia]

Nice false equivalency.

It's not really "false equivalence" considering Blizzard once said that, if you wanted to play a death knight, all you needed was to be a forsaken warrior, and to play as a demon hunter, all you needed was to be a night elf warrior. I mean, Triceron mentioned it before:

"For example, a night elven warrior could specialize into wielding two one-handed weapons and essentially be a demon hunter, while a dwarven warrior could fulfill the fantasy of a mountain king, or a undead warrior could become a death knight"

Dark rangers aren't happening. From both lore and a gameplay standpoint, they are literally just undead elf hunters.

And before Wrath, from a lore standpoint, death knights were just "evil human paladins".

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they never did rule it out, but unless unholy DK gets a complete rework like my former demo lock spec (rip) did then we can forget the dream necromancer class ever hitting WoW.

shame really since WoW could use more ranged classes

Why? The warlock's demonology and hunter beast mastery did not get a "complete rework" when the death knight playable class went live with its unholy spec.

[Dwimmerlaik]

And before Wrath, from a lore standpoint, death knights were just "evil human paladins"

No, no they were not. Before Wrath, from a lore standpoint, Death Knights were slain Orc Warlocks who had their souls slammed into the bodies of slain Stormwind Knights. They were, largely, all about decay magic and could be analogized as Necromancers ultimately.

Do people actually look anything up before spouting nonsense? This is a simple Google.

[Sluvs]

Dark Ranger can totally happen, a bow user with shadow-like magic is something we dont have in the game. To compare it to a necro is a little bit of a stretch, although I could see it being a newspec for the hunter. But there is plenty of design space there. I think it would be probably somehting between the shadow priest of old (before they really put emphasis on the void theme) and a hunter. I can even see the shadow hunter being a spec.

They would have to pull a couple of things out from their asses, but nothing we haven't seen before, they did it with vengeance demon hunter a blood DK

[Ielenia]

No, no they were not. Before Wrath, from a lore standpoint, Death Knights were slain Orc Warlocks who had their souls slammed into the bodies of slain Stormwind Knights. They were, largely, all about decay magic and could be analogized as Necromancers ultimately.

Do people actually look anything up before spouting nonsense? This is a simple Google.

This is beyond ironic.

Let's "use Google", shall we?

"Death Knights were once virtuous defenders of Humanity. However, once the Paladin ranks were disbanded by the failing Alliance, many of these holy warriors traveled to the quarantined lands to ease the suffering of those left within the plague-ridden colonies. Though the Paladins were immune to disease of any kind, they were persecuted by the general populace who believed that they had been infected by the foul plague. A small band of Paladins, embittered by society's cruelty, traveled north to find the plague's source. These renegade Paladins succumbed to bitter hatred over the course of their grueling quest. When they finally reached Ner'zhul's icy fortress in Northrend they had become dark and brooding. The Lich King offered them untold power in exchange for their services and loyalty. The weary, vengeful warriors accepted his dark pact, and although they retained their humanity, their twisted souls were bound to his evil will for all time. Bestowed with black, vampiric Runeblades and shadowy steeds, Death Knights serve as the Scourge's mightiest generals."

Welcome to the definition of the second generation of death knights, the precursor to the playable class, which is the third generation.