Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Bodakane]

I don't know if a former Trump cultist could have much pull of independents. They're not as rabid or irrational as the fanbase, and tend to remember things like "you re-opened too soon" and "we remember you shilling for Trump eight days a week" (independent voters also play a lot of Beatles).

2024 is a ways away, but the classic Republicans are, right now at least, proven to be outnumbered by the rabid fanbase. That's why the GOP hasn't turned on Trump yet, the same reason they haven't turned on the militia mass shooters, the racists, the Religious Reicht and so on. Without them, they lose elections. DeSantis, or whoever, can't realistically get enough classic Republicans and indies combined to replace the Trump supporters he'd lose by turning on Trump.

So far.

That's my point though, if polls start showing someone else, like Desantis, can start regularly beating Trump in the polls that may signal Trump isn't holding sway anymore.If he doesn't control the party, they will dump him. If they dump him, there's plenty of time to change the messaging to round up independents. We can never forget, we Americans have very short memories.

[D Luniz]

That's my point though, if polls start showing someone else, like Desantis, can start regularly beating Trump in the polls that may signal Trump isn't holding sway anymore.If he doesn't control the party, they will dump him. If they dump him, there's plenty of time to change the messaging to round up independents. We can never forget, we Americans have very short memories.

It was a poll at a GOP convention that was more party insiders than general public. These are the people that will consider "Trump might die of age/choke on big mac" and with that, BARELY went with DeSantis. And to that, I'm not convinced that they won't lie when they can be linked to, then back Trump when there is enough anonymity.

[Benggaul]

Tuesday's report:

11,005 new cases; about 2k fewer than last week.

Top 5:

Fuck Florida.
Texas: 1,897 new cases; 27 deaths
California: 1,039 new cases; 15 deaths
Missouri: 733 new cases; no deaths reported
Arkansas: 485 new cases; 8 deaths

Big jump for Texas, though it's likely it's mostly a correction from their low total yesterday. We'll see how the week progresses. Missouri's cases continue to rise--and they still haven't reported deaths the entire month. I find it unlikely that nobody has died in all that time due to COVID there. California's cases are staying about level and the main reason they've been showing up in the top 5 lately is due to there being nearly 40 million people in the state, so it's incredible that they've dipped below 1k a couple times already. Their positivity remains below 1% which, along with Ohio and most of New England, puts them in the best shape of the nation as far as this pandemic goes.

352 deaths is very slightly higher than last last Tuesday and brings the total to 617,875. Florida, Pennsylvania and Texas round out the top three and the national 7-day average is just about at 300 now.

Related news:

There's a lot today, so I'll keep the editorializing to a minimum.

Fauci: Delta Variant Accounts for 20% of New Coronavirus Cases in U.S.--Last week it was 10%.

Houston hospital workers fired, resign over COVID-19 vaccine--Good, fuck you if you refuse to get a vaccine but still want to be around sick people with compromised immune systems.

Almost 900 Secret Service employees were infected with COVID

Secret Service records show that 881 people on the agency payroll were diagnosed with COVID-19 between March 1, 2020 and March 9, 2021, according to documents obtained by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. More than 11% of Secret Service employees were infected.

Fuck Trump and fuck you if you still support him or his ilk.

EXPLAINER-What is the Delta variant of coronavirus with K417N mutation?--It's even MORE transmissible. These mutations are exactly why we still have to push ignorant fucks to get their vaccine. Mutations can occur in unvaccinated people that aren't covered by current vaccines. So far they've proven effective; it's not a guarantee that'll always be the case.

Trump said he hoped COVID-19 'takes out' Bolton

"'John Bolton,' he had said ... 'Hopefully COVID takes out John,'" Trump said, according to the book.

When reached for comment by Axios, Bolton said: "Fooled me - I thought he was relying on his lawyers."

Stay safe, folks.

[Breccia]

That's my point though, if polls start showing someone else, like Desantis, can start regularly beating Trump in the polls that may signal Trump isn't holding sway anymore.

That's still going to be tough. Anyone turning on Trump, is not Trump, and loses a lot of Trump's voters. DeSantis' numbers are inflated with the rabid fanbase's support, which at this point still outnumber any classic Republicans or independents afraid to vote for him.

Trump still controls the party, even if by proxy. The fact that someone who heavily supports Trump is considered a more viable candidate, if anything, proves that. And I don't believe DeSantis, or anyone else for that matter, can pull in both indies and also the cultists. Rational-thinking people are scared of cult members.

- - - Updated - - -

I take book stuff with a grain of salt.

Wait for Trump to deny it. That'll prove it's true. Trump loses an honesty-off in a competition with any carbon-based life form and probably the trolls from Discworld too.

[Benggaul]

Wait for Trump to deny it. That'll prove it's true. Trump loses an honesty-off in a competition with any carbon-based life form and probably the trolls from Discworld too.

But...but Mr. Shine, him diamond!

[Breccia]

Stay safe, folks.

Or...not.

Missouri now leads the nation in new cases, with a growing number of, you guessed it, unvaccinated people who thought they were healthy going to doctors, ERs, and the like.

While over 53% of all Americans have received at least one shot, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, most southern and northern Missouri counties are well short of 40%. One county is at just 13%.

Cases remain below their winter highs in southwestern Missouri

Silver lining.

but the trajectory is steeper than in previous surges, Erik Frederick, chief administrative officer at Mercy Hospital Springfield, said. As of Tuesday, 153 COVID-19 patients were hospitalized at Mercy and another Springfield hospital, Cox Health, up from 31 just over a month ago, county figures show.

These patients are also younger than earlier in the pandemic — 60% to 65% of those in the ICU over the weekend at Mercy were under 40, according to Frederick, who noted that younger adults are much less likely to be vaccinated — and some are pregnant.

He is hiring traveling nurses and respiratory therapists to help out his fatigued staff as the rest of the country tries to leave the pandemic behind.

“I feel like last year at this time it was health care heroes and everybody was celebrating and bringing food to the hospital and doing prayer vigils and stuff, and now everyone is like, ‘The lake is open. Let’s go.' We are still here doing this," he said.

"Okay, but why post here?"

Frederick said some people in the heavily Republican state are resistant because they feel as if Democrats are pushing the vaccine.

“I keep telling people, while we are busy fighting with each other, this thing is picking us off one by one,” he said. “It takes no sides. It has no political affiliation. It is not red. It is not blue. It is a virus. And if we don’t protect ourselves, we are going to do a lot of damage to our community.”

"Of course."

Yeah. Dr. Frederick had an especially sobering take on his state's issues.

If people elsewhere in the country are looking to us and saying, ‘No thanks' and they are getting vaccinated, that is good. We will be the canary.

"Well at least the Missouri govt is protecting its citizens, even from themselves. Huh, you quoted me mid-article, that can't be good."

In Missouri, Republican Gov. Mike Parson has taken the position that it is better to ask people to take “personal responsibility" than to enact restrictions.

Missouri never had a mask mandate, and Parson signed a law last week placing limits on public health restrictions and barring governments from requiring proof of vaccination to use public facilities and transportation.

Missouri Health Department spokeswoman Lisa Cox said the agency is encouraging people to get vaccinated, but confessed: “This is the Show-Me State and Missourians are skeptical.”

"Well at least the AP are getting the news out. Surely the people in Missouri read the Associated Press. Wait, why are you making me say something so obviuosly false?"

Steve Edwards, CEO of Cox Health, lamented in a tweet that while a number of major news organizations have contacted the hospital about the rise in cases, Fox News was not among them.

“Fox," he tweeted, “is the most popular cable news in our area — you can help educate on Delta, vaccines and can save lives."

"Wel at least it's just Missouri. Wait, you're quoting me again? Oh shit, it's not just them, is it? Why would you make me s--"

There are also warning signs across the state line: Arkansas on Tuesday reported its biggest one-day jump in cases in more than three months. The state also has low vaccination rates.

I don't know how close we are to "Fuck Arkansas" but we might not need it. Sounds like they're taking care of it themselves.

[Benggaul]

I don't know how close we are to "Fuck Arkansas" but we might not need it. Sounds like they're taking care of it themselves.

Well, they're at least reporting it. Missouri isn't even reporting deaths anymore as I noted above. Missouri's been amassing cases for a while now and a lot of those are thanks to Delta. Also as I wrote about before most states around Missouri are starting to show increases as well. Missouri looks like the latest epicenter, though hopefully thanks to the vaccination effort it won't be as dramatic as those that have come before.

[Breccia]

Since our resident Trump supporters have seemingly fled, likely into their bunkers to cry into their single scoop of ice cream, I feel I can quote CNN without fear of controversy.

Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner distance themselves from the former President and his constant complaints

Remember that old saying "First they came for the Communists..." (or whatever)? I know we discussed it a lot in 2016 (in the context of "not this time, motherfucker" and the Muslim ban). Well, Trump seems to be doing his own unique parallel. He's at the point where he's throwing away his own family.

With each passing day away from Washington, former President Donald Trump's grievances continue unabated. And those complaints appear to be driving away two of the people who were closest to him during his White House tenure: his daughter Ivanka Trump and son-in-law, Jared Kushner.

Sometimes the former President complains for several hours about the "stolen" 2020 election. Other times, his frustrations emerge in fits and starts -- more likely when he is discussing his hopeful return to national politics. And while he often has a rotating audience of cheering listeners, the gap between Trump and his daughter and son-in-law grows wider by the week, according to 12 former Trump White House officials, former administration officials, family friends, acquaintances and members of Trump's team who spoke with CNN about changes to the former President's current inner circle.

A large part of the reason for the separation is Trump's constant harping on the past and his inability to move on. The former President has also started to question the role that Kushner -- one of the few people who were able to stay close to Trump throughout his two presidential campaigns and White House tenure -- has played in his presidential legacy.

Ivanka Trump has also struggled to undo the entanglements caused by the years at her father's side in the White House, as she seeks a less complicated life for her family, according to two acquaintances. They described her as having to walk a fine line between embracing her father and distancing herself from his election lies.

The article goes on, but I think you get the point. I'm sure Ivanka and Jared love Trump's money and fame very much, but watching a loved one fall into a state of dementia due to random-ass illness is bad enough. Watching one intentionally drive themselves to madness, probably on a golf cart, has got to be worse. I'm not saying I sympathize...but I understand.

Only after stumbling across this headline did I ask "wait, where has Kushner been?" In retrospect, I don't remember him pushing the election fraud bullshit...at least, not enough to make the headlines much. Even Nov 8 they were telling Trump to concede, apparently. Did they want the money and fame and immunity from tax laws and adoration that Trump's tenure gave them? Of course they did. For all his dismal-ass failures, Kushner at least seemed to be trying, even if he was trying at a job for which he was -50% qualified (related story: Kushner's peace in the Middle East plan seems to be going so well, we have a new thread about Israelis bombing their neighbors, yay! /s) And that 666 5th Ave thing, he can die in a fire made of shredded loan extention rejection letters. But when even Trump's favorite son, Jared Kushner (it makes sense to him) and sexiest, most bangable daughter, Ivanka Kushner, are saying "it's not worth it" I think we know it's bad.

The Trump family are now in second place for "most awkward family dynamic" between the Vaders and the Bakers of Resident Evil 7.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/DrewWilderTV/sta...84334408355842

Getting arrested over silly culture war bullshit to own the libs.

[uuuhname]

https://twitter.com/DrewWilderTV/sta...84334408355842

Getting arrested over silly culture war bullshit to own the libs.

"fragile white ego" doesn't do this justice.

[Edge-]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/commu...se/5312515001/

Ian Alan Olson, a 31-year-old Nashotah man and QAnon believer accused of firing paintball rounds at two reservists at the Wisconsin Army Reserve Center in Pewaukee, is considering a potential plea agreement regarding the federal charges against him.

According to court records, Olson's attorney, Thomas Simon, on June 15 requested additional time to discuss a potential plea agreement with his client. Olson has a status conference scheduled for July 14.

On March 15, the Nashotah man allegedly drove a car spray-painted with QAnon slogans to the Wisconsin Army Reserve Center in Pewaukee and shouted, "This is for America," before he fired paintball rounds at two reservists nearby, court documents said.

He also told intake staff at the Waukesha County Jail that he would "cause mass casualty" if he were released, according to a criminal complaint filed in federal court.

...

When he arrived at the reserve center, Olson saw two reservists about 15 yards away standing in a fenced-in parking lot. He got out of his car and shouted, "This is for America," and fired two or three paintball rounds at them before the rifle jammed. The rounds didn't hit the reservists.

"You're lucky it jammed," Olson reportedly said.

The reservists tackled Olson and held him until police arrived.

According to court documents, prosecutors said Olson has shown he has "extreme anti-government beliefs and violent tendencies" and that he is a believer in the debunked conspiracy theory QAnon.

Trump's cult is just out there attacking the men and women in blue and green uniforms. Not very pro-police or pro-military of them. Actually seems pretty like...anti-American from their PoV?

[beanman12345]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...arlson/619258/

Interesting piece on Tucker Carlson being an "anonymous source" as has been recently revealed. It sure explains why Carlson is often treated with kid-gloves and his public comments, which we're reminded Carlson's own lawyer says his comments cannot be taken seriously on his show, are reported uncritically. Frum does a great job highlighting just how untrustworthy his public comments are from protests at Carlson's house a few years back where he spun tales of cracked doors after being banged on and threats of pipe bombs...only to have it come out that his front door was completely undamaged, police had no reports of any threats of violence or destruction, and apparently it didn't last very long and was pretty boring.



Which makes a lot of sense. I do look forward to him explaining this away on his show and trying to convince his audience that he's not a secret DEEP STATE liberal plant dishing juicy FAKE NEWS about Trump.

Sorry I'm little late to this, just read the NYT piece on it. You make a good point, probably why the "no reasonable person would take him seriously" actually was effective here, because, he plays a character on an opinion show for ratings, the person behind the character... I mean anyone who does even the smallest bit of research knows how much money he's rolling in, how he's part of that 1% and rolling around with the elite and upper crust went to the elite schools etc etc. Hell he was on the same tv show for YEARS with Rachel Maddow ffs. But that line of defense of how the "no reasonable person would take me seriously" didn't quite work so well with "The Krakan" because until she rose to fame off high end flynn then trump cases, she was just a nobody appellate lawyer with no prominance to her.

Granted no reasonable person would or should take either seriously, but there are way too many that take both far more seriously than they ever should, and are both dangerous, Tucker even more so because he's better at this.

[zorkuus]

Trump's cult is just out there attacking the men and women in blue and green uniforms. Not very pro-police or pro-military of them. Actually seems pretty like...anti-American from their PoV?

You don't understand. They are pro-police/military but the police and military are part of the deep state so they are a fair target, but they are also pro-police/military, but the police and military are part of the deep state so fuck 'em, but they ARE pro-police/military. Where's the confusion?

[gondrin]

Since our resident Trump supporters have seemingly fled, likely into their bunkers to cry into their single scoop of ice cream, I feel I can quote CNN without fear of controversy.



Remember that old saying "First they came for the Communists..." (or whatever)? I know we discussed it a lot in 2016 (in the context of "not this time, motherfucker" and the Muslim ban). Well, Trump seems to be doing his own unique parallel. He's at the point where he's throwing away his own family.



The article goes on, but I think you get the point. I'm sure Ivanka and Jared love Trump's money and fame very much, but watching a loved one fall into a state of dementia due to random-ass illness is bad enough. Watching one intentionally drive themselves to madness, probably on a golf cart, has got to be worse. I'm not saying I sympathize...but I understand.

Only after stumbling across this headline did I ask "wait, where has Kushner been?" In retrospect, I don't remember him pushing the election fraud bullshit...at least, not enough to make the headlines much. Even Nov 8 they were telling Trump to concede, apparently. Did they want the money and fame and immunity from tax laws and adoration that Trump's tenure gave them? Of course they did. For all his dismal-ass failures, Kushner at least seemed to be trying, even if he was trying at a job for which he was -50% qualified (related story: Kushner's peace in the Middle East plan seems to be going so well, we have a new thread about Israelis bombing their neighbors, yay! /s) And that 666 5th Ave thing, he can die in a fire made of shredded loan extention rejection letters. But when even Trump's favorite son, Jared Kushner (it makes sense to him) and sexiest, most bangable daughter, Ivanka Kushner, are saying "it's not worth it" I think we know it's bad.

The Trump family are now in second place for "most awkward family dynamic" between the Vaders and the Bakers of Resident Evil 7.

Nah, I would say third. This, if it is true, has to be in first place.

Man Learns His Son is Actually His Uncle Due to Grandfather's Affair

https://www.msn.com/en-us/foodanddri...BingNewsSearch

[Corvus]

Nah, I would say third. This, if it is true, has to be in first place.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/foodanddri...BingNewsSearch

Sounds like someone has been playing Crusader Kings...

[Breccia]

Getting arrested over silly culture war bullshit to own the libs.

First person sentenced for the murderous insurrection. Okay, it's kind of relevant.

Apparently she gave a half-apology ("I'm sorry things got out of hand") and got 3 years probation.

Also, nearly 500 arrested so far.

[Pendulous]

First person sentenced for the murderous insurrection. Okay, it's kind of relevant.

Apparently she gave a half-apology ("I'm sorry things got out of hand") and got 3 years probation.

Also, nearly 500 arrested so far.

So breaking into a government building, and being part of a group that caused major damage and deaths, three years probation.

Having a bit of weed on you, hang the fuckers.


Yeah that makes sense.

[jonnysensible]

that is a slap on the wrist for insurrection lol.

[Breccia]

So breaking into a government building, and being part of a group that caused major damage and deaths, three years probation.

Having a bit of weed on you, hang the fuckers.


Yeah that makes sense.

that is a slap on the wrist for insurrection lol.

I agree, especially since the article I read did not say "she admitted she was wrong". The quote I saw was far more "things got out of hand" which is some passive-defensive bullshit. And she didn't look like part of a larger group, she brought one friend, so I doubt she was given a reduced sentence for ratting out the Proud Boys.

I'm disappointed.

But Trump apparently has a new barrage of problems. Seems Weaselberg wasn't the only one getting paid under the table. By the way, anyone else surprised Trump is getting in trouble because he actually did pay people? Huh. Anyhow, one of his former bodyguards named Calamari, no really, has gotten his own lawyer. And sources tell NBC that this guy "knows where the bodies are".

I should also point out that NY is about to vote for its new AG who will, of course, inherit the Trump Org investigation. Currently in the lead is Bragg who is a public corruption officer. If the name Bragg sounds familiar, it should, it's not that rare of a name. But this guy, Alvin Bragg, has a solid record to back him. And he's part of the group that killed the Trump "charity". It's possible NY could send someone after Trump who's the most directly experienced and most directly motivated. You know, like the Trump WH, but backwards.

I have no current update on Weaselberg. If he's cooperating, it hasn't made the news yet.

And also, Trump posted on Twitter Trump posted on FB Trump told a rally Trump told FOX News Trump posted on his blog I do plan to finish some day Kiff Trump said in a PAC release that

But what about the last election? Why wasn’t this done prior to the November 3rd presidential election where they had us losing by a very small number of votes, many times less than the 101,789 figure?

This means we (you!) won the Presidential Election in Georgia.

The 2020 presidential election was rigged!

Trump is sitting in his own dirty diaper yelling NO NO NO about Georgia's recent announcement about purging 100,000 or so voters from the list, and claiming that this was somehow a nefarious deed.

Big surpise: Trump is either lying, or intentionally ill-informed. Neither trait is redeeming.
1) The federal government requires states stay up-to-date with voter rolls. So if Georgia didn't do that, it would still be Trump's fault for lax enforcement.
2) But of course, Georgia did do that. It was well documented, even going to court. Georgia, like many states, don't do this during election years, and by law they can't within 90 days of the election, but they 100% provably did it in 2019.
3) In 2019, Georgia removed about 300,000 voters. In 2017, it was closer to 600,000. Trump is making a yuge bigly deal about 100,000 because he either doesn't know how this works, or he does know but is lying to his rabid fanbase on purpose.
4) Trump is either claiming that removing 100,000 people in 2021 invalidates the 2020 election -- which, no, it doesn't -- or, he's claiming that the missing purge in 2019 invalidates the 2020 election -- which, because there was a purge, no it doesn't. There is nothing about a voter purge (which, again, is required by federal law which he oversaw) happening that invalidates an election.
5) And of course, in case anyone out there somehow forgot, Georgia checked the results multiple times then certified, even though Trump directly threatened them, for which he's under investigation.

Team Trump knows Trump lost. Trump might be literally insane or senile, but the more likely explanation (to me) is "Trump is trying to create enough smoke to demand Georgia put out a nonexistent fire". By yelling "Fraud!" loudly enough, he wants the Republican Party (remember, Trump still runs this, just ask the 2020 RNC) to enact massive voter suppression laws, which would be ironic considering he's complaining about voter roll purges except of course it's all just a trick. This needs to fail. A fat, sad old man, stewing in his own feces, shrilling NO NO NO is not reason enough to pass laws that remove the most precious American right from Americans.

His attack on democracy, and defense of the murderous insurrection (for which people aren't getting sentenced fairly), are an attack on American values. He needs to be silenced. And I know just the man to do it...but he doesn't want to Bragg about it.

- - - Updated - - -

This could be worth watching.

Nikki Haley, classic Republican, was one of the many Republicans Trump liked until they said something mean about him. In this case, it was "he shouldn't have started a murderous insurrection".

The main difference is, Haley's not retiring. She is still active, or trying to be active, in the Republican Party. She's not Pence, for example.

Honestly, other than the fact that she intentionally pushed Trump's agenda, I never had any problems with Haley...because I didn't really follow her career. I don't know what her policies are/were, except "I want to help Trump of my own free will" which is an instant KO from my perspective. But from what I have read, she at least used to have good GOP name recognition and clout, and she's not an old white man.

So this will be an interesting experiment.

[Breccia]

"demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public at large"

Lying to the American people: illegal if you're a lawyer, completely fine if you're Trump.

This will hurt, but not kill, Giuliani. He can still be brought on by Trump's rabid fanbase as "consultant". But we all know this isn't over yet. There are one-point-three billion unanswered questions.