Blizzard created the perfect storm

[Gorsameth]

WOW was overtaken by FFXIV during WOD. Legion brought WOW back into popularity for a time, as it was WOW's last dying gasp. Where the flame burned one last time before going out. BFA died out pretty quickly after launch, and FFXIV has been consistently pretty far ahead since then. At the launch of SL, WOW very briefly got some players back, but it didn't last long. The reason FFXIV is getting attention for being the top subscription MMO now is, a lot of WOW streamers are visibly switching to it.

I'm sure you can back up any of that with something remotely official or credible right?

[Unlimited Power]

I'm sure you can back up any of that with something remotely official or credible right?

I think FFIX posted that they had passed 4 million accounts sometime during WoD when WoW was at it's lowest publicly announced active subscribers.

What he fails to comprehend is that WoW had already passed 100 million accounts at that point and accounts created tell nothing about active subscribers.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'm sure you can back up any of that with something remotely official or credible right?

it's bull, they only got to 1million in 2019.

If there is a lot of feedback that it is better to divide into the first half and the second half, it will be useful in some way in the future [About the future] ・ 5. In the X series, the new main scenario will be added ・ A type that expands the range of game experience Many new elements are planned in the 5.X series update [Others] -The number of paying members is 700,000, which is based on the number two years ago and is not the current peak data. Compared to that time, the playing population is now higher ・ The number of active players exceeds 1 million and the number of payers has entered an unprecedented area ・ I want to overwrite the number at some point

http://ff14net.2chblog.jp/archives/55799898.html

[Kralljin]

I have seen this happen for literally every MMO ever since WoW released. A successful game needs to be its own thing in order to prosper. As long as a game's strongest point is to replace WoW, it will inevitably not replace WoW.

I am assuming that you are largely referring to AoC, when i believe the differences are actually pretty obvious.

First off, AoC really aims at a more old school approach of MMO's, they (at least from what i've seen) really focus on player interaction, considering how Blizzard has designed WoW over the past decade, i think it's no lie that this game will not be very appealing at least to the current Retail WoW audience.

Personally, for this reason, i find it very odd to see so much hype within the WoW community for AoC, because i do not see this type of game appealing to the modern WoW customer, simply because WoW used to be a lot like that.

Second, a large difference is also that "prime of WoW killers" was likely fueled by investors wanting their share of the MMO market, they saw the success of WoW and threw their money at any studio willing to attempt an MMO, whether the idea of that MMO has success or the team behind it is actually competent was likely not questioned by investors - but naturally pushed for a release ASAP for a type of product that usually have 4-5 years of development.
Said "prime" was also unfortunately for those game around the same time when WoW was sub wise at its peak, around 08-11 you had a bunch of MMO's launching, past that point, near dead silence besides Wildstar.

Add to this that this point in time, WoW had a lot less baggage and Blizzard overall a better imagine, back then you had to actively win over people from WoW to your MMO, now people are seemingly just willing to give any MMO the benefit of the doubt because they want to see another successful MMO.

Also, AoC at the very least, is self funded by an avid MMO fan, he wants to revive the genre and not just get a slice of MMO marketshare.
That doesn't necessarily mean AoC will be good, wanting to make a good game and actually developing one are two different things, but not having the pressure of people that frankly solely care about a bigger number of their bottomline is an advantage.

Times have changed, WoW is no longer the dominant force it used to be and Blizzard certainly no longer has the perception of having the Midas Touch of gaming.

[VinceVega]

and other game developers are taking advantage of it.

It just dawned on me while I was sat here, there doesn't have to be a singular WoW killer, with companies like Amazon, Riot, and Singularity 6 (and more) coming out with their own MMO's. All that has to happen is these developers individually absorb a chunk of the current WoW base. Blizzard essentially will compete with several major viable companies, instead of just 1 at a time when they are failing miserably. its just a matter of time.

Does competition breed excellence?

Never even heard of Singularity 6. Who are they?
Amazon is allready doomed tbh. It got so much bad press allready. It will have a short huge following which will drop exactly as fast again. I was really intrigued by it but allready lost interest. Looks good but weirdly without substance.
Riot is difficult one. They tend to really really go hard on monetization in their games. Like... really hard. With XP boosts and really expensive skins etc. IF people from wow go over to the riot game i would be really interested how many of the whined about the wow MTX.
And: Riots art is basically asian big boobs in your face and lolis.... not everyones cup of tea. But we will see... this one i give the biggest chance. But i think the rather leech from FF14 than from wow.

[PACOX]

The cycle of literally every MMO:

-Gets announced
-Gains the favor of a chunk of WoW's playerbase that is tired/fed up with WoW's current vision
-Gets praised as a "WoW killer"
-Once it releases, MMOChampion and other similar websites are flooded by people that give all glory and honor to the new game since it's so much better than WoW
-It stabilizes, players come and go, and the hardcore crowd chills out a bit
-(OPTIONAL) The game fails because its whole appeal is being a "WoW killer"

I have seen this happen for literally every MMO ever since WoW released. A successful game needs to be its own thing in order to prosper. As long as a game's strongest point is to replace WoW, it will inevitably not replace WoW.

Also I feel like the MMO market is dying down. At least it is for me, after 10+ years of WoW I ain't starting again somewhere else.

I think there is a chunk of the WoW playerbase that think they make or break the genre. If they are not personally playing an MMO, if it doesn't personally fit their interests (WoW x ???,??? being the billion dollar question) then the game is dead/failed.


I'm not talking about WoW players content with WoW or try other MMORPGs with an open mind and just don't click with them. I'm talking about a specific group that sees every new MMORPG as a 'WoW Killer' and if it doesn't immediately destroy WoW's population then it's 'another dead game'. Not trying to throw shade but some devs/game communities are glad those players abandoned their game so the game can carve its own niche free or the 'WoW killers or bust' mindset.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I think there is a chunk of the WoW playerbase that think they make or break the genre. If they are not personally playing an MMO, if it doesn't personally fit their interests (WoW x ???,??? being the billion dollar question) then the game is dead/failed.


I'm not talking about WoW players content with WoW or try other MMORPGs with an open mind and just don't click with them. I'm talking about a specific group that sees every new MMORPG as a 'WoW Killer' and if it doesn't immediately destroy WoW's population then it's 'another dead game'. Not trying to throw shade but some devs/game communities are glad those players abandoned their game so the game can carve its own niche free or the 'WoW killers or bust' mindset.

I think that comes from the time investment required for an MMO. People want to feel validated in their choices, which is why "I quit" threads exist. This validation goes both ways and it can show up also when deciding not to play an alternative, which is why "X game is dead" threads exist.

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I am assuming that you are largely referring to AoC, when i believe the differences are actually pretty obvious.

First off, AoC really aims at a more old school approach of MMO's, they (at least from what i've seen) really focus on player interaction, considering how Blizzard has designed WoW over the past decade, i think it's no lie that this game will not be very appealing at least to the current Retail WoW audience.

Personally, for this reason, i find it very odd to see so much hype within the WoW community for AoC, because i do not see this type of game appealing to the modern WoW customer, simply because WoW used to be a lot like that.

Second, a large difference is also that "prime of WoW killers" was likely fueled by investors wanting their share of the MMO market, they saw the success of WoW and threw their money at any studio willing to attempt an MMO, whether the idea of that MMO has success or the team behind it is actually competent was likely not questioned by investors - but naturally pushed for a release ASAP for a type of product that usually have 4-5 years of development.
Said "prime" was also unfortunately for those game around the same time when WoW was sub wise at its peak, around 08-11 you had a bunch of MMO's launching, past that point, near dead silence besides Wildstar.

Add to this that this point in time, WoW had a lot less baggage and Blizzard overall a better imagine, back then you had to actively win over people from WoW to your MMO, now people are seemingly just willing to give any MMO the benefit of the doubt because they want to see another successful MMO.

Also, AoC at the very least, is self funded by an avid MMO fan, he wants to revive the genre and not just get a slice of MMO marketshare.
That doesn't necessarily mean AoC will be good, wanting to make a good game and actually developing one are two different things, but not having the pressure of people that frankly solely care about a bigger number of their bottomline is an advantage.

Times have changed, WoW is no longer the dominant force it used to be and Blizzard certainly no longer has the perception of having the Midas Touch of gaming.

Sorry, you lost me a bit. What is AoC? Age of Conan?

[Edge-]

Sorry, you lost me a bit. What is AoC? Age of Conan?

Ashes of Creation by the sound of it. Though it's not the most accurate post about it (it's not self-funded, though Sharif is investing plenty of his own money, it's a crowdfunded game).

It's confusing given that it shares the same acronym as Age of Conan...though I think at this point we can sorta forget that game exists since it's seen next to no love over the past however many years.

[justandulas]

I think that comes from the time investment required for an MMO. People want to feel validated in their choices, which is why "I quit" threads exist. This validation goes both ways and it can show up also when deciding not to play an alternative, which is why "X game is dead" threads exist.

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Sorry, you lost me a bit. What is AoC? Age of Conan?

Ashes of Creation, but no lie i read his post and was thinking Age of Conan at first too and was thinking like "WTF?" the whole post until it clicked he meant Ashes.

[Kralljin]

Sorry, you lost me a bit. What is AoC? Age of Conan?

As other posters have pointed out, Ashes of Creation, an upcoming MMO that has received a lot of coverage over the past months.

[justandulas]

I think that comes from the time investment required for an MMO. People want to feel validated in their choices, which is why "I quit" threads exist. This validation goes both ways and it can show up also when deciding not to play an alternative, which is why "X game is dead" threads exist.

- - - Updated - - -



Sorry, you lost me a bit. What is AoC? Age of Conan?

A fun, but unrelated, story about Age of Conan and how i had my worst GM interaction of all time in that game. Even though they were a nice person.

To say that game was rushed would be a huge understatement, but we all know that, and after i left the starting zone at one point i literally fell through the world. couldn't fix it by closing out the game, time, etc... my dude was just stuck for hours falling. naturally, i do what we'd all do and file a ticket. Eventually a GM came to help me and said he was unable to move me and that he'd have his higher up take a look in the morning. Sure, i mean maybe he really couldn't, but i vividly remember that being my "I'm done here" moment. A GM, after hours of falling, couldn't move or kill me unless his boss approved and he couldn't be bothered until the next day. I was dumbfounded

[Lord Pebbleton]

Ashes of Creation by the sound of it. Though it's not the most accurate post about it (it's not self-funded, though Sharif is investing plenty of his own money, it's a crowdfunded game).

It's confusing given that it shares the same acronym as Age of Conan...though I think at this point we can sorta forget that game exists since it's seen next to no love over the past however many years.

Ashes of Creation, but no lie i read his post and was thinking Age of Conan at first too and was thinking like "WTF?" the whole post until it clicked he meant Ashes.

I see, I blocked out Ashes because I was one of the original Conan players. I still have it in my drawer.

As other posters have pointed out, Ashes of Creation, an upcoming MMO that has received a lot of coverage over the past months.

I hope it finds its place in the MMO world. I am cautiously optimistic because I have seen too many MMOs fail...

[phattsao]

There still is a huge untapped demand for a WoW killer, even today I think. We see it at the launch of every xpac, this huge influx of old players coming together for a month or two desperate to relive that original experience. Blizzard has even capitalized on this with Classic and now TBC.

Nothing has scratched the itch, at least not for me. I've tried most of the big ones, LOTR, Warhammer, Star Wars, Final Fantasy, Guild Wars...none of them quite do it as well as WoW does. Especially when it comes to that snappy, satisfying gameplay.

I'm still waiting for someone to crack the code and bring us a true WoW sequel/killer/whatever. And I doubt I'm alone. There's gold in these hills, we just need a developer to dig in the right place.

[Gorsameth]

There still is a huge untapped demand for a WoW killer, even today I think. We see it at the launch of every xpac, this huge influx of old players coming together for a month or two desperate to relive that original experience. Blizzard has even capitalized on this with Classic and now TBC.

Nothing has scratched the itch, at least not for me. I've tried most of the big ones, LOTR, Warhammer, Star Wars, Final Fantasy, Guild Wars...none of them quite do it as well as WoW does. Especially when it comes to that snappy, satisfying gameplay.

I'm still waiting for someone to crack the code and bring us a true WoW sequel/killer/whatever. And I doubt I'm alone. There's gold in these hills, we just need a developer to dig in the right place.

Its a code that cannot be cracked, because the problem isn't the game. Its that the people and the world are over a decade older.

They want that feeling of innocence back, but that is gone forever.
Its why I have no interest in Classic. I was there at the time, at it was amazing and I would love to relive that all again, but I can't because I'm not the person I was 17 years ago.

[Deferionus]

Never even heard of Singularity 6. Who are they?
Amazon is allready doomed tbh. It got so much bad press allready. It will have a short huge following which will drop exactly as fast again. I was really intrigued by it but allready lost interest. Looks good but weirdly without substance.
Riot is difficult one. They tend to really really go hard on monetization in their games. Like... really hard. With XP boosts and really expensive skins etc. IF people from wow go over to the riot game i would be really interested how many of the whined about the wow MTX.
And: Riots art is basically asian big boobs in your face and lolis.... not everyones cup of tea. But we will see... this one i give the biggest chance. But i think the rather leech from FF14 than from wow.

Gonna add here that the MTX in Riot's titles has never been intrusive or given an advantage to someone. One of my biggest take aways when I started to play league was how well they did their monetization of their f2p game. Team fight tactics likewise is fine and I haven't heard anything bad about Valorant.

MTX in MMORPGs is unique in that if you sell xp boosts, cosmetics, etc it can be seen as a negative compared to other genres. It will be interesting to see how they go about the topic in their game.

[Milfshaked]

Its a code that cannot be cracked, because the problem isn't the game. Its that the people and the world are over a decade older.

They want that feeling of innocence back, but that is gone forever.
Its why I have no interest in Classic. I was there at the time, at it was amazing and I would love to relive that all again, but I can't because I'm not the person I was 17 years ago.

Or you know, people want a good game.

The quality of both WoW and "WoW killers" are in the gutter. Even some of the most hyped MMOs such as FFXIV has a ton of glaring issues.

Is it really that hard to imagine that people just want a game that is actually decent?