It is a bad time to be a buyer and new real estate agent right now.

[Zan15]

P.S. eventually mortgage gets paid of and then you just have taxes and maintenance costs to deal with. rent is there for the rest of your life no matter how long you have been paying it.

LOL "just taxes and maintenance"...

i take it property taxes are low in your state?

Mine (if i kept it) would be about 500 dollars a month on a property assessed at 141,000 and valued at 225k.

Lets not even talk about lawn care, pool care and snow removal. :P

But lets not rehash the whole rent vs mortgage thing again

[Witchblade77]

LOL "just taxes and maintenance"...

i take it property taxes are low in your state?

Mine (if i kept it) would be about 500 dollars a month on a property assessed at 141,000 and valued at 225k.

Lets not even talk about lawn care, pool care and snow removal. :P

But lets not rehash the whole rent vs mortgage thing again

how much is your average rent in your state in your area? with taxes like that i would imagine its not going to be particularly low either. and property taxes are all over the place in my state. in my municipality they are actualy slightly higher then state average but still nowhere near 500 a month, especially with homestead tax credit.

in any case, isn't it interesting how you zeroed in on this one thing, ignoring everything else that I've mentioned?

rent vs mortgage thing for each individual making that choice depends on your personal circumstances and preferences. however, and I reiterate. landlords are not in it for the fun of it in US. they are here to make a profit, hence the apparent wall street buyouts from previous page. their taxes go up? your rent goes up

there are two exceptions where rent is unequivocally lower then buying for equivalent amount of space.

1. you are lucky enough to have a rent controlled apartment with a lease your landlords cannot get out of.
2. you are in enough of a hardship to qualify for section 8.


first is rare and getting rarer and all but impossible to get as a new renter.
second kind of removes the buy choice entirely as if you have low enough income to qualify for section 8, you are not making enough money to pay average mortgage in your area.

[ghotihook]

how much is your average rent in your state in your area? with taxes like that i would imagine its not going to be particularly low either. and property taxes are all over the place in my state. in my municipality they are actualy slightly higher then state average but still nowhere near 500 a month, especially with homestead tax credit.

in any case, isn't it interesting how you zeroed in on this one thing, ignoring everything else that I've mentioned?

rent vs mortgage thing for each individual making that choice depends on your personal circumstances and preferences. however, and I reiterate. landlords are not in it for the fun of it in US. they are here to make a profit, hence the apparent wall street buyouts from previous page. their taxes go up? your rent goes up

there are two exceptions where rent is unequivocally lower then buying for equivalent amount of space.

1. you are lucky enough to have a rent controlled apartment with a lease your landlords cannot get out of.
2. you are in enough of a hardship to qualify for section 8.


first is rare and getting rarer and all but impossible to get as a new renter.
second kind of removes the buy choice entirely as if you have low enough income to qualify for section 8, you are not making enough money to pay average mortgage in your area.

I totally agree.
My property Taxes + Insurance is $481/mo. So even when my house is 100% paid off I will still be paying that. That makes me mad, but I am 100% happy I got a house. I love having full control over practically everything I do with my property. Building gardens, landscaping, creating a theater are worth it to me which is usually not possible in rental properties. I totally get renting, but for me I enjoy the freedom more.

[Zan15]

how much is your average rent in your state in your area? with taxes like that i would imagine its not going to be particularly low either. and property taxes are all over the place in my state. in my municipality they are actualy slightly higher then state average but still nowhere near 500 a month, especially with homestead tax credit.

in any case, isn't it interesting how you zeroed in on this one thing, ignoring everything else that I've mentioned?

rent vs mortgage thing for each individual making that choice depends on your personal circumstances and preferences. however, and I reiterate. landlords are not in it for the fun of it in US. they are here to make a profit, hence the apparent wall street buyouts from previous page. their taxes go up? your rent goes up

there are two exceptions where rent is unequivocally lower then buying for equivalent amount of space.

1. you are lucky enough to have a rent controlled apartment with a lease your landlords cannot get out of.
2. you are in enough of a hardship to qualify for section 8.


first is rare and getting rarer and all but impossible to get as a new renter.
second kind of removes the buy choice entirely as if you have low enough income to qualify for section 8, you are not making enough money to pay average mortgage in your area.

Average rents are always hard to pin down depending on size, location and amenities. Huge variance by county the closer you get to the rich folks

2019. 2020 data won't be out for another few months
States Median Gross Rent $1,177
1 yr change -1.26% 3 year change +0.77%

County Median Gross Rent $1,119
1 yr change-5.81% 3 yr change -2.86%


Fair market rent estimates 2021.
$910 $1,079 $1,348 $1,701 $2,004
Studio / Efficiency 1-Bedroom 2-Bedroom 3-Bedroom 4-Bedroom

in my area
$889 $1,091 $1,347 $1,675 $1,958

in any case, isn't it interesting how you zeroed in on this one thing, ignoring everything else that I've mentioned?

cause I wanted to highlight major differences when it comes to property tax and not argue the whole rent/own debate again.


The rent i would pay for a 2 bedroom with the same sqft & amenities would be several hundreds of dollars cheaper then the mortgage + taxes. This does not include then the amount of maintenance cost/labor for the house + amenities like a inground pool for which i had. Also the increased cost of insurance and utilities/sewer/water/garbage which are included in the rent outside of maybe electricity (yes heat is standardly included in most places unless its electric heat).

Hell i even get 150mb internet included


But you are right the whole rent vs buying debate always ends up being down to "depends".....

[Witchblade77]

I totally agree.
My property Taxes + Insurance is $481/mo. So even when my house is 100% paid off I will still be paying that. That makes me mad, but I am 100% happy I got a house. I love having full control over practically everything I do with my property. Building gardens, landscaping, creating a theater are worth it to me which is usually not possible in rental properties. I totally get renting, but for me I enjoy the freedom more.

same. I'm ecstatic that we managed to buy when we did, cause right now, it would be much MUCH rougher going. but that ability to do just about anything we want is invaluable. not to mention privacy and all the other fun stuff. I think I may have mentioned it before, but out of curiosity, I looked up average rental prices in my area this year. they have gone up a HELL of a lot more then our property taxes did (which they did go up, as they do, but not nearly as much). the biggest boon for me personaly though is just how insecure renting is. yes, you can lose your home if you cannot pay, but

1. it takes a hell of a lot longer, long enough that you have a chance to improve your situation and keep your house after all.
2. even if you pay regularly etc, landlord can still kick you out for whatever reason. most leases do not have a clause where they have to renew it for you. this uncertainty is something I directly had to deal with. I HATE moving and I doubly hate moving when I'm frantically trying to find a place to move TO and hope that its the right size, in workable area and within our budget.

I think... in some of the other countries, renting is not as uncertain. but in US.......

[The Oblivion]

Perhaps the issue is less likely because instead of people owning homes you just have Wall Street owning them instead and the government will of course give them all the money they need.

without NINJA loans happening anymore, almost no one doing balloon payments, we will likely never see anything like that housing wise again. add in govt interference forcing modifications on mortgages and leniency for borrowers, its not gonna crash.

[Ashnazg]

there will not be a correction. the previous housing crisis is unlikely to ever occur again due to regulation. add in remote work becoming normal, no one NEEDS to live in the bay area anymore. so they can take their cash stacks elsewhere and pay cash for homes

Work from home will be followed by a large salary crush for everyone. After all, why pay SF / NYC rates to people who don't live in those cities?

[The Oblivion]

Work from home will be followed by a large salary crush for everyone. After all, why pay SF / NYC rates to people who don't live in those cities?

while that may be true for some very specific high wage areas (bay area, nyc) it wont be for most. large companies already pay the same all over the country, for instance, an auditor at bank of america in california is paid the same as one in texas and in arizona. same goes for a lot of companies like wells fargo, chase, capital one. these companies already have people all over pre pandemic, and paid based on job, not location. Now these same jobs are remote, companies are already starting to look to shed corporate office expense.

also a lot of companies will just now require you be within so much distance of a location in case you do ever need to come in. (this was common for remote work pre pandemic as well). This makes it easier to live in say, sacramento, but still be in the 2 hour range of san fran.

[Table1]

Average rents are always hard to pin down depending on size, location and amenities. Huge variance by county the closer you get to the rich folks

2019. 2020 data won't be out for another few months
States Median Gross Rent $1,177
1 yr change -1.26% 3 year change +0.77%

County Median Gross Rent $1,119
1 yr change-5.81% 3 yr change -2.86%


Fair market rent estimates 2021.
$910 $1,079 $1,348 $1,701 $2,004
Studio / Efficiency 1-Bedroom 2-Bedroom 3-Bedroom 4-Bedroom

in my area
$889 $1,091 $1,347 $1,675 $1,958



cause I wanted to highlight major differences when it comes to property tax and not argue the whole rent/own debate again.


The rent i would pay for a 2 bedroom with the same sqft & amenities would be several hundreds of dollars cheaper then the mortgage + taxes. This does not include then the amount of maintenance cost/labor for the house + amenities like a inground pool for which i had. Also the increased cost of insurance and utilities/sewer/water/garbage which are included in the rent outside of maybe electricity (yes heat is standardly included in most places unless its electric heat).

Hell i even get 150mb internet included


But you are right the whole rent vs buying debate always ends up being down to "depends".....

Your numbers aren't really matching up. As a renter you're still paying your portion of the taxes. Then the 4.255% property tax rate is insanely high. A comparable apartment unit size to property size would still be taxed at almost the same value. You may save a bit more with landscaping. Your numbers just don't really match up, but without knowing the county you live in or city you live in this would only be an assumption. Your area could be crazy like that where it might be better to rent then to own. The numbers just don't really add up.

I work in real estate so I look at a lot of properties so that is why i am not fully believing your numbers. They could be right and I could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time.

I looked in my area and my house I paid about $4,000 in taxes in 2020 and its about a bit over 1950 SF. An apartment complex down the road from me their portion of the taxes are also $3,900, but their apartment unit is also about 1,275 SF (total bldg SF 142,199). I am paying $2.05 PSF in taxes and the apartment tenant is paying $3.06 PSF. So they are paying 49% more in taxes per SF and our property tax rates are the exact same.