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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    How do you sneak an aircraft in an infantry portal, come on.
    You know how big the Gronn are? almost the size of Deathwing.


    I think they can bring an aircraft through. But, that isn't what they are about anyway. This is:
    https://www.google.co.il/search?q=ir...Csh28c7QcDzD1M

    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    In game mechanisms can hardly happen in the lore. In the books or short stories characters don't have their mounts that appear or disappear by magic like that, and they can't travel the world in hours with unlimited stamina.
    Yes, but believing what we see in game is what actually happen in lore isn't right, either.
    We saw a couple of Botani coming through that portal. Does that mean we'd only have 2 botani on Azeroth?

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    You know how big the Gronn are? almost the size of Deathwing.
    Yep. I also know that Gronns are in the Outlands, which are a tad more accessible than AU Draenor.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I think they can bring an aircraft through. But, that isn't what they are about anyway. This is:
    https://www.google.co.il/search?q=ir...Csh28c7QcDzD1M
    Yep. I also know that there's no tanks or stuff being shown or currently built. There is however a true to Grom Iron Horde aircraft in Azeroth.



    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Yes, but believing what we see in game is what actually happen in lore isn't right, either.
    We saw a couple of Botani coming through that portal. Does that mean we'd only have 2 botani on Azeroth?
    Botanis got in from an Overgrowth portal too. And to my knowledge not many got this side of the time dimension without being burnt to cinders since they've been treated as an infestation. But it's been a while since I checked.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    Yep. I also know that Gronns are in the Outlands, which are a tad more accessible than AU Draenor.
    I meant that they brought those with them. Not that they should now.

    Yep. I also know that there's no tanks or stuff being shown or currently built. There is however a true to Grom Iron Horde aircraft in Azeroth.
    It doesn't matter. At any point, they could bring their tech knowledge to play.

    Botanis got in from an Overgrowth portal too. And to my knowledge not many got this side of the time dimension without being burnt to cinders since they've been treated as an infestation. But it's been a while since I checked.
    We've dealt with these. I'm talking about what we're being shown. Epic scale all out war cannot really be shown in game due to technical constraints. In lore, it is probably much bigger.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I meant that they brought those with them. Not that they should now.
    From the page you took your Deathwing image there's an extensive description of current Gronns and their position. There's no AU Draenor Gronns in Azeroth, all those existing and in current employment of whatever faction have been taken from Outlands or are possibly being bred in Azeroth.



    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    It doesn't matter. At any point, they could bring their tech knowledge to play.

    We've dealt with these. I'm talking about what we're being shown. Epic scale all out war cannot really be shown in game due to technical constraints. In lore, it is probably much bigger.
    One last time:
    It's not consistent with what's been shown. And of course it can happen: anything can happen. However, any further detachment from consistency actually hurts the credibility of the game.

    And once more it's not a matter of realism, I don't care about realism. I do appreciate for a world to be consistent with itself. If stuff just happens because it just happens and you have to reach for it to make sense, then it detracts from the world. And as the World of Warcraft increases in size and power levels get to the absurd, spectacularization has been pushed over consistency to the active detriment of the game.

    If you don't agree with this point that's fine. But we stand on completely opposite and irreconcilable positions.

  5. #145
    Because Blizzard doesn't like Orcs and likes to forget they even exist.

    Because it makes the Horde look like the evil faction even though logically they would adopt the technology. It's purely esthetic reasons, which makes no sense and is a bullshit excuse.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    From the page you took your Deathwing image there's an extensive description of current Gronns and their position. There's no AU Draenor Gronns in Azeroth, all those existing and in current employment of whatever faction have been taken from Outlands or are possibly being bred in Azeroth.
    Then, what do you call these?:



    And look what they have on their backs: Iron Horde technology.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Things like iron stars, aircraft carriers n shiet.
    But.. they do? During BFA specifically you can see the Horde use both those things. Nazmir has an aircraft carrier and you personally use Iron Stars to kill alliance in Kul Tiras as a quest during an invasion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Then, what do you call these?:



    And look what they have on their backs: Iron Horde technology.
    They're also present in BFA. There are Gronn with cannons on their back in Stormsong. I think a lot of people in this thread, OP included, simply don't pay attention to quests they've done.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Then, what do you call these?:

    And look what they have on their backs: Iron Horde technology.
    As I said, Gronns are not exclusive for AU Draenor. It makes no sense, to me, how in the limited time the Mag'har scenario shows there's the possibility of moving these assets as well, and as explained it takes away from consistency.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    As I said, Gronns are not exclusive for AU Draenor. It makes no sense, to me, how in the limited time the Mag'har scenario shows there's the possibility of moving these assets as well, and as explained it takes away from consistency.
    It's called GAME RESTRICTIONS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    They're also present in BFA. There are Gronn with cannons on their back in Stormsong. I think a lot of people in this thread, OP included, simply don't pay attention to quests they've done.
    Right.
    So, what is this bullshit of Mag'har Orcs can't use Iron Horde technology?

  10. #150
    because present day orcs are dumb, they still live in huts

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Right.
    So, what is this bullshit of Mag'har Orcs can't use Iron Horde technology?
    Once more.
    It's not a matter of not being able to, rather, not having the infrastructure nor the possibility to mass produce it and, since the majority of it all has been left to AU Draenor, easily access and use it.
    The possiblity is there, the design is an iteration of Blackfuse's creation and surely some engineers came over to Azeroth amidst all the clans. However, the Iron Horde had it all in place for their machines to be built and shipped to wherever needed. At the moment the only thing even remotely Iron Horde-ish is a single aircraft in Nazmir, meaning it either got teleported, which is unlikely, or it has been produced, so it's proof of the technology being used.

    However, the fact that there's no reasonable place in Azeroth the Horde has access to where there's enough logistics and resources to come even somewhat closer to Gorgrond's Pit, Iron Docks or Foundry is exactly this: a fact. The aircraft, much like a lot of things in BfA is an asspull with small relevance but a lot of dumb implications.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    Once more.
    It's not a matter of not being able to, rather, not having the infrastructure nor the possibility to mass produce it and, since the majority of it all has been left to AU Draenor, easily access and use it.
    The possiblity is there, the design is an iteration of Blackfuse's creation and surely some engineers came over to Azeroth amidst all the clans. However, the Iron Horde had it all in place for their machines to be built and shipped to wherever needed. At the moment the only thing even remotely Iron Horde-ish is a single aircraft in Nazmir, meaning it either got teleported, which is unlikely, or it has been produced, so it's proof of the technology being used.

    However, the fact that there's no reasonable place in Azeroth the Horde has access to where there's enough logistics and resources to come even somewhat closer to Gorgrond's Pit, Iron Docks or Foundry is exactly this: a fact. The aircraft, much like a lot of things in BfA is an asspull with small relevance but a lot of dumb implications.
    Not the only case:

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    They're also present in BFA. There are Gronn with cannons on their back in Stormsong. I think a lot of people in this thread, OP included, simply don't pay attention to quests they've done.
    "During the Fourth War, an Azerite Iron Star was used by the Horde to breach the walls of Boralus.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-06-28 at 05:07 PM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Not the only case:



    "During the Fourth War, an Azerite Iron Star was used by the Horde to breach the walls of Boralus.
    Alright let's take a step back.

    What is your definition of Iron Horde technology and your expected spread of said technology.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Things like iron stars, aircraft carriers n shiet.
    Uh because blizzard is just a bad company when it comes to following story or making anything make sense. I mean how did 20 manage to take out the iron horde to begin with?

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    Things like iron stars, aircraft carriers n shiet.
    The same reason why Velen doesn't blow everything up with his laser rigged space ship. Massive story plot holes caused by incompetent writers. WoW lore went straight down the toilet after WotLK, when they couldn't just feed off WC3 anymore.

  16. #156
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Quite the thread bump.
    Why do we discriminate against bumps, anyway? Better than making a new thread. In fact, it would be nice if the search function was expanded somehow to encourage continuing old threads over making new ones.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    Alright let's take a step back.

    What is your definition of Iron Horde technology and your expected spread of said technology.
    "The foundation of all Iron Horde technology is the iron star: a primitive, coal-fired centrifugal engine which can be used to turn wheels, belts, and chains, allowing for the construction of crude vehicles and siege weapons including tanks, cannons, and chariots. It was initially used as a massive rolling bomb designed to wipe out whole legions with its explosive power, and was unleashed against the Dwarven invaders under Moira by Siegecrafter Blackfuse, and later against the adventurers during their fight with Garrosh. It's this weapon that Garrosh smuggled to the alternate Draenor, and that was redesigned as an engine. However, it is still frequently used as a weapon as well. Many Iron Horde soldiers, mostly from the Blackrock clan, were also trained how to use firearms and explosives.

    Solog Roark was responsible for the construction of the Iron Fleet and Iron Docks.

    They frequently made use of iron capsules; armored spherical cages that could be occupied by several orcs at once, even dire orcs, to deliver soldiers swiftly to the front lines."

    Apparently, an aircraft is not one of it:
    "The Iron Horde also lacked air support despite all their armaments, and had to rely on tamed rylaks for their air fleet."

    I'd rather see it being used by the Mag'har in general. But, if not, then at least by the Blackrocks.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackstraw View Post
    At the moment the only thing even remotely Iron Horde-ish is a single aircraft in Nazmir, meaning it either got teleported, which is unlikely, or it has been produced, so it's proof of the technology being used.
    Some mag'har orcs that were once part of the Iron Horde, namely Uraka Wildthunder, also collaborated on the submarine used by Horde to reach Mechagon. The fact that they're actively collaborating with goblins means iron horde projects are being brought into Horde tech, but given that a lot of the tech originated with goblins in the first place (e.g. Blackfuse), mostly goblins seem to get credit rather than the mag'har.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    Some mag'har orcs that were once part of the Iron Horde, namely Uraka Wildthunder, also collaborated on the submarine used by Horde to reach Mechagon. The fact that they're actively collaborating with goblins means iron horde projects are being brought into Horde tech, but given that a lot of the tech originated with goblins in the first place (e.g. Blackfuse), mostly goblins seem to get credit rather than the mag'har.
    The Greasy Eel is mostly a goblin task, but now that you make me think about it there's a Mag'har tank in front of the Mugalo. Improved with goblin rockets of course.

    Still no heavily industrialized logistics for mass production, so I guess we're talking small scale.

  20. #160
    As @Jackstraw said the Horde has much bigger industrial and logistical problems than the Iron Horde, due to them having less ressources at their disposal as well as more insecure territories and they have far stronger opponents to face that the Iron Horde did in its development since their only real potential foes on Draenor, the Draenei and the Arakkoas weren't as strong and numerous as the Alliance and majorly stayed inside their territories without aggressive ideas toward the Orcs until the Iron Horde was already functionnal and well-armed with Goblin tech and about to attack them.

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