Spoiler I can't believe it. Tyrande did something.

[ArenaDk]

your math is far off, don't make sense and have lots of plot holes and ignore other things, there is a different gap in power among the wild gods and the aspects, if they stronger than the LK there would be no sweat in wtLK to defeat arthas..

You can point out were Iam wrong if you want and show feats of wild gods / arthas which would show this plot holes.

But again you miss understand. It wasnt that they couldnt beat arthas, it simply was that they didnt care about him at all. You need an event like the well of eternity reaching critical mass or deathwing to get them to even move without begging.

Literally one of Arthas strongest servants is a dragon who was nothing more than a consort. Consorts are like children to aspects, welplings in power.

If they decided to fly to the top of ice crown, Arthas could have done what? send undead dragons? The one consort he revived?

Not even talking about how reviving undead, Arthas prime ability, is also the domain of the red dragons who are better at it. Day of the dragon showed us, that Krasus just needs to point at a corpse to raise it, and have it bond to his will instantly

[voidox]

I came across a comment on the subreddit that I really think would have been so much better for this cinematic:

Personally, I would have rather seen Sylvanas on the receiving end of a beat down. And Tyrande is then interrupted NOT by Elune randomly withdrawing the Night Warrior powers, but rather the energy in Tyrande starts going critical and that is what disables her. Sylvanas is able to take advantage of that to flee, rather than being scared off by Ysera.

and with that scenario, you could actually show the night warrior being something more than talk by having sylvnaus take actual damage from Tyrande

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I don't know. It reminded me of the movie 'Get Out' (2017), where the main character chokes his "girlfriend" until she smiles.

"Bask in the dying embers of Rod's friendship with you, Chris. Nothing lasts."

I just had to.

[Houle]

You can point out were Iam wrong if you want and show feats of wild gods / arthas which would show this plot holes.

But again you miss understand. It wasnt that they couldnt beat arthas, it simply was that they didnt care about him at all. You need an event like the well of eternity reaching critical mass or deathwing to get them to even move without begging.

Literally one of Arthas strongest servants is a dragon who was nothing more than a consort. Consorts are like children to aspects, welplings in power.

If they decided to fly to the top of ice crown, Arthas could have done what? send undead dragons? The one consort he revived?

Not even talking about how reviving undead, Arthas prime ability, is also the domain of the red dragons who are better at it. Day of the dragon showed us, that Krasus just needs to point at a corpse to raise it, and have it bond to his will instantly

no matter if that whole "dragons ignored arthas bc he was beneath their notice" thing is true (which is retarded IF its true, bc arthas was on the process of building an army that wouldve wiped them out too)
ysera and the others lost a big deal of their power at the end of cata, when they stopped being aspects.
the ysera weve seen in legion and now in shadowlands is not nearly that powerful anymore. and thats a fact.

[geco]

If Elune can take away the power of the Night Warrior without exploding Tyrande there is no reason to assume the ritual would kill her if Elune tells her to F*** off.

You are right.
This mania for writing on the go is unsustainable.

[username993720]

Not that big not that wild

Yes this big and yes this wild.
I don't get it. People wanted more of a savage look for the Night elves. I think it looks great.

thats because the power level is retarded, she beat the lich king without a sweat and their answer was because she was empowered by the Janitor, while the sylvanas who fought against Malfurion and saurfang(and everything else you said) was not.

Someone who defeat the Lich king easy, should not run with fear by a green dragon, period.

ITs the same retarded thing as Rokhan, Zul, Talanji, Nathanos and that elf running away scared from Jaina, is just awful writing that does not keep on track with consistency and power lv.

Have you thought about:

Gul'dan: "I have no time for this. Blackhand!

She was literally on her way out when Tyrande stopped her. She found a moment to escape and did so.

"Bask in the dying embers of Rod's friendship with you, Chris. Nothing lasts."

I just had to.

"I mean, i told you not to go to that house".

[ravenmoon]

Well, Tyrande did do something. She saved the Azeroth’s hero, as well as the Covenant champions, from Sylvanas. Keep in mind that before Tyrande showed up that Sylvanas was beating them and also started summoning creatures from the Maw. Tyrande showing up put an end to that. She just wasn’t able to complete her goal of killing Sylvanas.
Also, the cinematic revealed that Elune had/has blessed Tyrande with more power than the Jailer gave, or possibly is only capable of giving, Sylvanas as Tyrande basically overpowered everything Sylvanas used against her. She was more powerful physically when she overcame and threw Sylvanas, she was stronger magically when she broke the chains that even Bolvar couldn’t, then again when she was close to strangling/crushing Sylvanas’s throat, and then shown even faster than Sylvanas banshee form while attempting to fall back.
My main point is that the cinematic has more going on than Blizzard trying to be some weeb company that puts out underwhelming and meaningless videos.

That is true, I agree, I quite like the cinematic, but you know forum speech, saying she does nothing, doesn't actually mean she does nothing, it means she doesn't do anything really amazing that the hype of the power she has would be expected to produce.

After all that night warrior power up and hype, you mean, this is all Tyrande can pull off with it? an ambiguous fight that you can't even tell for sure if she is stronger or gets the better of Sylvanas (I mean she does imo, but it's not exactly a hands down victory), so with all that power, Sylvanas is still able to hold her own...at least enough. (but like you it seems evident Tyrande is the stronger in this encounter, she also was the weaker against Malfurion in the WoT though thanks to Saurfang he nearly lost to her.)

Tyrande doesn't seem to do anything super spectacular with the apparently super spectacular power.

I think that is what the issues were. I loved the video, Tyrande looked cool, the fight scene was cool too, and I like that we are seeing more of Elune, still a bit disturbed that we haven't seen the normal side of Elune expounded properly. We've seen the arcane side of the night elves, we've seen the druidic side too, but while we've always had Tyrande, the sentinels, and moon priestesses, we really haven't delved into them yet at all.. we don't see their displays of power, and to be honest, from what I can surmise, they are what link the arcane to nature life. and they carry the identity of the kaldorei that is linked to the stars, the arcane and Cenarius connects with his druidism by his mother Elune's people. They are first children of the Stars, Elune's people, born of the arcane before they are nature lovers.

Spoiler: 

All these 3 aspects are intertwined, but while Elune herself has been a mystery, the Order of Elune hasn't been expounded on. Suramar and the Cathedral of Eternal light should have really shown that side, but it was cut... dev panels showed us a glimpse of what they did, before revealing they cut it - and in 8.1, we get this other side of Elune hinted at in the 3 sisters encounter in the Cathedral of Eternal Night.

Anyway, I feel there is a lot to do with the stars and the night elves, that is more than just magic, but is very much related to magic, they have yet to people why all night elf disciplines use arcane star magic, how is this different form when mages use the well of eternity (i can think of a few easy explanations how - like they draw from the stars and moon instead of the well, and the mentality and use of the power is very different, they have spirituality to the arcane, whiles mages is more scientific/application wise, so the utilisation is different - priestess regard the well and arcane as very sacred (Elune's power), mages a tool - there was no conflict for a long time, because mages too took using that power very seriously too - this is how htey got to master it. It was only well after Azshara was established and after addiction had become problematic towards the end of the era, that they started being callous towards it. WoA remarks the night elves found it troubling how reckless the Highborne usage of the well was, and some Highborne too were very concerned, it also mentions that the night elves di not like this type of behaviour in general .. this supports my explanation. The way the sentinels and priests treat the Moonwells and the Well of Eternity confirms this also, WoW quests show them talking about it as the sacred waters of Elune -this is how they view the Well, so it would be very irksome what the Queen was doing, though it's the Highborne they felt were responsible for this (not the Queen).

Much supports this strong connections, not just the priestesses spells being arcane, but you see it time and time again, even in the ruins of Zin'Azshari, fighting some of the priests, like in that world boss encounter there, you see it also in the Cathedral of Eternal night, you saw it in Wc3 with starfall, etc) So I surmise it how they use the magic is different, I also suspect that the knowledge of the arcane came from the priests first, because Elune is worshipped before the mage order is created/rises to power, and they are the ones intensely studying the 'Well.

so it is priestly knowledge and the fruits it yields that causes others to start finding more applications for magic that are not necessarily faith centred, this is where magecraft is born, and this is where they divulge a bit, the priesthood continues in its foundation, bringing a level of spirituality to the race, but other things count. Nature is also not forgotten, love of nature is seen everywhere amongst every group, just the degree varies, highest amongst the forest dwellers, lowest amongst the Highborne.

I suspect it is their star fascination that leads them to discover how to draw arcane power from the stars and moon, but I suspect it influences far more than magic..also having spiritual and superstitious overtones... which blizzard yet have to show. Stars tell time, positions (portal magic comes form this, or should come from this), , they would tell destinies and futures via the stars, - so names would come form the stars, also it fits that their society would already pre-determine the future of the children by reading their stars guiding them a long a path. They would have a star name, a star stone/token, as well as a nature one. I would think while the cities are built on ley lines, the buildings would be aligned to the star patterns to maximise spell work in extraordinary ways.. there is a lot of depth you can bring out - all of this can stem from the priesthood and showing how it influences both the civilization, the source of the mage order as well as the druids and nature seeing Cenarius is Eluen's son.

Also Elune while the main goddess, is not the only celestial entity paid attention too, the stars would play a role hear, they probably view themselves as stars or the children of the stars that are Elune's (the moon, the great light's) , celestial court

[TheFirstOnes]

@username993720

It'll come to play 9.2 imo.

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Think of 9.1 as Infinity War, with Zovaal claiming all the Sigils and us "remaking them", and us completing our Covenant issues all while some factors aren't yet dealt with.

Now, think of 9.2 as Endgame, where we challenge Zovaal with the Sepulcher, we save Elune and the Pantheon of Life from the Mawsworn and the Dreadqueen, the Venthyr find Denathrius and defeat him, Uther finds closure with Arthas, Helya returns and loses to the Keepers + us at Ulduar, Galakrond is raised and becomes a Mawsworn only to die by us, and other factors as well.

[BrintoSFJ]

I have watched the Spanish version quite a few times now and I must say, it was very...titillating! The Spanish voice-over is really top-notch. They were just talking about killing each other and I was feeling horny...damn!

[Nynax]

It's simple again. Bolvar is not a powerful Lich King. He is a pathetic version of him. A shadow of what Arthas was. Sylvannas had the power of the Jailer by the time he met him when she commited suicide. Bolvar is simply pathetic compared to the original Lich King. It's also the same with the other situation.

Considering the feats Jaina have shown it's no wonder any of the others were able to match her.

I agree with this. A lot of Arthas power as Lich King came from Frostmourne and the multitude of souls trapped within (as we've seen a "mourneblade" is something to fear); all of which vanished the moment Frostmourne shattered. Not only that, but Bolvar's humanity means he lacks the coldhearted ruthlessness that made Arthas so brutal. Bolvar may be a Lich King, but he is not the Lich King.

[Ivarr]

Now, think of 9.2 as Endgame, where we challenge Zovaal with the Sepulcher, we save Elune and the Pantheon of Life from the Mawsworn and the Dreadqueen, the Venthyr find Denathrius and defeat him, Uther finds closure with Arthas, Helya returns and loses to the Keepers + us at Ulduar, Galakrond is raised and becomes a Mawsworn only to die by us, and other factors as well.

Right. I'll resubscribe in 9.3.

[Syegfryed]

It's simple again. Bolvar is not a powerful Lich King. He is a pathetic version of him. A shadow of what Arthas was. Sylvannas had the power of the Jailer by the time he met him when she commited suicide. Bolvar is simply pathetic compared to the original Lich King. It's also the same with the other situation.

that is not "simple again", is a half-asset thing to excuse what happened. Sylvanas did not had the power of the Janitor by the time she commit suicide, she only had the deal, the power she got later

Considering the feats Jaina have shown it's no wonder any of the others were able to match her.

what feats? a magical boat? my ass they would

You can point out were Iam wrong

by assuming power levels like that, is just wrong, zuluhead enslaved alextraza thus that mean orcs>dragons and if dragons>sylvanas, Orcs>sylvanas, yet, she wona gainst saurfang.

But again you miss understand. It wasnt that they couldnt beat arthas, it simply was that they didnt care about him at all. You need an event like the well of eternity reaching critical mass or deathwing to get them to even move without begging.

dude was raising everyone to undead and could control the world,was taking the dragons to raise and almost got Galakrond, and they simple didn't care? come on, be reasonable.

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I came across a comment on the subreddit that I really think would have been so much better for this cinematic:



and with that scenario, you could actually show the night warrior being something more than talk by having sylvnaus take actual damage from Tyrande

That would mean Danuser waifu would receive a major beatdown and would not get on her way "like a edgy badass character" he think she is

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Have you thought about:
Gul'dan: "I have no time for this. Blackhand!

and? have nothign to doa bout it

She was literally on her way out when Tyrande stopped her. She found a moment to escape and did so.

and that is bullshit, since she didn't to escape, she could have killed both right there and end major threats against her own plans, that is just bad villain plot, where they let the hero live "because he does not need/want/have to kill him, because ~~reasons~~


"I mean, i told you not to go to that house".[/QUOTE]

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I agree with this. A lot of Arthas power as Lich King came from Frostmourne and the multitude of souls trapped within (as we've seen a "mourneblade" is something to fear);

the lich king power come from the Helm of domination, the sword is just a tool of power pretty much like we got the shadowmourne, if anyone still remember her who should be stronger than frostmourne.

[Wangming]

I think the implication here is that the Jailer has taken Nathanos and kept his soul elsewhere, likely as insurance should Sylvanas begin to slip her leash and get ideas about redemption and/or getting one over on him.

I get that. But it is still weird that an undead chick who is presently in the afterlife, is so disturbed by the prospect of her boyfriend dying. The fuck is that going to stop?

[Aucald]

I get that. But it is still weird that an undead chick who is presently in the afterlife, is so disturbed by the prospect of her boyfriend dying. The fuck is that going to stop?

I don't think it's the notion of him dying - it's the idea that he could die and she *not* know about it (by, as you said, dint of her being in the afterlife). Her lack of awareness of his death means that the Jailer has to be involved with keeping it from her since he has nowhere else he could go but the Maw given the current state of the Arbiter.

[username993720]

@username993720

It'll come to play 9.2 imo.

- - - Updated - - -

Think of 9.1 as Infinity War, with Zovaal claiming all the Sigils and us "remaking them", and us completing our Covenant issues all while some factors aren't yet dealt with.

Now, think of 9.2 as Endgame, where we challenge Zovaal with the Sepulcher, we save Elune and the Pantheon of Life from the Mawsworn and the Dreadqueen, the Venthyr find Denathrius and defeat him, Uther finds closure with Arthas, Helya returns and loses to the Keepers + us at Ulduar, Galakrond is raised and becomes a Mawsworn only to die by us, and other factors as well.

I think that's way too much for a single patch.

and? have nothign to doa bout it



and that is bullshit, since she didn't to escape, she could have killed both right there and end major threats against her own plans, that is just bad villain plot, where they let the hero live "because he does not need/want/have to kill him, because ~~reasons~~

Killing someone is time consuming. She didn't have time to deal with the forces of the Horde and the Alliance in reckoning, like she didn't have time to face Ysera. She's got other things to do. In BfA it was to beat the Lich King, now it is to collect the sigils i guess.

[Unholyvamp]

What are people talking about. This was a super bad-ass cinematic.

Sylvanas was awesome
Tyrande was awesome

[Mehrunes]

Because it's simple my friend. Sylvannas is not that powerful as many on this forum think. Her plot armor is just huge but apart from that the only noticable feats are killing an Old Orc Warrior Saurfang and a pathetic version of the Lich King.

She lost against Malfurion and she would have been dead if it wasn't for Saurfang.
She lost against Genn and she would have been dead if Genn did not decide to talk at the start but go for a stealth kill or decided to go inside with his whole guard or if he decided not to stop the attack to let her get up.
She could not fight any of the other Eternal ones of the Shadowlands.
She could not go and abduct any of the Racial Leaders of Azeroth herself and had to send lackeys.
She left in shames from Orgrimmar and if it wasn't for plot armor she could have been dead.
She died from Godfrey but ressurected by Valkyr plot armor.
She had no way of stopping Jaina in the Undercity otherwise she could do that.
And finally she clearly lost against Tyrande saved at the last second by her plot armor as Elune refused Tyrande doing a Vegeta Explosion move cause that was where it was going. Then run with her tail between her legs in the sight of Ysera.

Anduin on the other hand who was already a powerhouse became a mega powerhouse easily defeating an Eternal One with his whole court in just two moves. Isn't it strange why the Jailer sends Anduin now and has Sylvannas as canon fodder?

You've been corrected on that just yesterday. Apply at least some limits to your fanfiction peddling.

Also, your new additions here are just as wrong. Putting aside how Sylvanas didn't lose against Malfurion even in game, because all that happened before Saurfang applied his honor to Malfurion's back was Sylvanas getting momentarily rooted in place, A Good War came after that with a different version of events and as the latest piece of lore it takes precedence.

And what happened in A Good War? Malfurion outright fled from Sylvanas on multiple occasions. Three, at least. And then prior to Saurfang jumping in on the action the last thing that happened in the story's version of events was Sylvanas ragdolling Malfurion into a tree.

As for Genn, this isn't even a case of you disregarding newer lore for the sake of convenience to your fanfiction, as there's only one version of events here. And it does not support you in the slightest. First of all, there were Dark Rangers and other elite Forsaken forces outside, starting with Nathanos. The frontal assault wouldn't exactly pan out. And you can watch the BfA opening cinematic to see what Sylvanas does with nameless mooks either way.

The rest of this fascinating hot take that has totally not been done by you and immediately debunked before ignores that Genn landed a direct blow on Sylvanas' face during that fight. With his claws. You know, the very same claws that shortly before he was using to turn Felguards into minced meat. Yet he didn't even leave a mark on her. So, pray tell, what would him going for a stealth "kill" change in this department, when he already didn't achieve squat by landing a direct hit on one of the most fragile parts of a body?

The part about the Eternal Ones is pure speculation unsubstantiated by anything. The part about lackeys would only make sense if those lackeys were actually stronger than Sylvanas and nothing indicates that. And she was fleeing from Ysera so hard she stood in place to give one last snarky bit of monologue to taunt Tyrande and Ysera did absolutely squat against her in that time.

As for Orgrimmar, Lor'themar himself that the reason Sylvanas left Orgrimmar when she did is because she no longer needed the Horde to achieve her goals. Which, lo and behold, was proven correct. Never mind that the very reason Sylvanas even "left Orgrimmar in shame" is because of plot contrivance for the sake of the Alliance and the Horde traitors orbiting Anduin, as the reason for her accepting Mak'gora, i.e. her wanting to make Saurfang suffer, does not pan out.

Because she didn't need to accept it to make Saurfang suffer and, if anything, letting him see his coalition's last effort crumble before him would have made him suffer even more. Especially if she kept him alive through necromancy afterwards. Because as indicated by (again) the side opposing her during that engagement, she would have won that battle. Not to mention that even Jaina didn't have a clue what was the magic she used to kill Saurfang. And given how it was an instant KO the moment she stopped playing, the idea that they could have killed is, you guessed it, just more unsubstantiated claims you made just because you can't handle the character.

The part about Godfrey just shows (for the thousandth time) that you don't understand what plot armor means. Someone being resurrected in a setting with rampant necromancy is not plot armor in the slightest. Especially when the character in question is someone who has already been resurrected in the past (and the setting has no limits to that, which it doesn't as per WotLK) and has a personal pact with beings that are masters of necromancy.

The Jaina bit on the other hand is you not understanding that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Sylvanas quite clearly wanted Anduin and his squad to die in her trap. Which, you know, is why she flew away before Jaina actually did anything to protect the Alliance members present. So not only are you basing your claims that Sylvanas can't do something based on just her inaction, you're basing it on her inaction to an event she wasn't even a witness to. Which is just all sorts of nonsensical.

The final piece exposing this particular aspect of headcanon for what it is here is the fact that there actually is prior evidence disproving your claims. Sylvanas is as anti-caster as it gets. She silenced even Dar'khan's spellcasting at a time when he had all of Sunwell's power for himself. The idea she couldn't do the same to Jaina is ridiculous.

And while we're on the topic, do you want to know what is actual plot armor? Jaina effortlessly shielding herself and others from the Blight when the established lore on the issue made it clear that things like Arcane or even Light magic don't protect from it and the only thing that works is Dreadlord magic.

Finally, the part about Tyrande is just baseless speculation. For all we know Elune stopped Tyrande because she knew Sylvanas would have survived anyway and that Tyrande would be throwing her life away for nothing.

Considering the feats Jaina have shown it's no wonder any of the others were able to match her.

The only combat feat of note achieved by Jaina prior to BfA is something she did only with the aid of the Focusing Iris. And even then Thrall held her tidal wave back. Other than that she struck Thalen with all of her might and the dude didn't even drop to his knees.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

It's really sad and frustrating to see how badly Blizzard has wasted Tyrande, this Night Warrior and the Night Elves in general in these last expansions.
On the other hand I hope that Shadowlands won't be too long because I have more than enough of Sylvanas and her story, who in addition didn't suffer enough karma since Cataclysm, and of Nathanos too. And also of the Jailer who's the most boring WoW antagonist so far.

[Syegfryed]

Killing someone is time consuming. She didn't have time to deal with the forces of the Horde and the Alliance in reckoning, like she didn't have time to face Ysera. She's got other things to do. In BfA it was to beat the Lich King, now it is to collect the sigils i guess.

Again, that is a bullshit ass excuse, its not time consuming from someone with her power lv, she could just blast their ass like she did with Saurfang, or at least one of then, its just bad plot devices and generic villain shenanigans, like the classic villain monologue.

[ArenaDk]

that is not "simple again", is a half-asset thing to excuse what happened. Sylvanas did not had the power of the Janitor by the time she commit suicide, she only had the deal, the power she got later



what feats? a magical boat? my ass they would



by assuming power levels like that, is just wrong, zuluhead enslaved alextraza thus that mean orcs>dragons and if dragons>sylvanas, Orcs>sylvanas, yet, she wona gainst saurfang.




dude was raising everyone to undead and could control the world,was taking the dragons to raise and almost got Galakrond, and they simple didn't care? come on, be reasonable.

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That would mean Danuser waifu would receive a major beatdown and would not get on her way "like a edgy badass character" he think she is

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and? have nothign to doa bout it



and that is bullshit, since she didn't to escape, she could have killed both right there and end major threats against her own plans, that is just bad villain plot, where they let the hero live "because he does not need/want/have to kill him, because ~~reasons~~


"I mean, i told you not to go to that house".

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the lich king power come from the Helm of domination, the sword is just a tool of power pretty much like we got the shadowmourne, if anyone still remember her who should be stronger than frostmourne.[/QUOTE]

Oh No Galokrond the Dragon they killed when they were PROTODRAGONS. When they didnt knew magic or had titan powers. What a worry for them that must be to fight a weakend version. Which they havent even come close to even revive

Also you mean the dragon soul was stronger than alex, not the orcs. The dragon soul , the artefact which could oblitarate Icecrown in one spell?