Page 20 of 27 FirstFirst ...
10
18
19
20
21
22
... LastLast
  1. #381
    The Undying
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    34,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    If it comes out that something made it possible he would have served 0. I would take the 3 as a win. Again was it the best outcome? no.
    That's how I see it. 3 isn't a win except when compared with 0. And in that case it's a huge win - especially considering the Rapist and their resources.

    I mean, the victims probably don't see it this way - but they destroyed him Cosby is DONE. He will never be who he was, ever. He's just an old, blind, rapist who got off on a technicality.

  2. #382
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    001100010010011110100001101101110011
    Posts
    22,950
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    That's how I see it. 3 isn't a win except when compared with 0. And in that case it's a huge win - especially considering the Rapist and their resources.

    I mean, the victims probably don't see it this way - but they destroyed him Cosby is DONE. He will never be who he was, ever. He's just an old, blind, rapist who got off on a technicality.
    You know. The more I agree with you like this the more I feel bad for going off on you that one time :-s


    Don't know if you remember it but if you do I'm sorry for it happening.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  3. #383
    The Undying
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    34,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    You know. The more I agree with you like this the more I feel bad for going off on you that one time :-s


    Don't know if you remember it but if you do I'm sorry for it happening.
    I do remember, and you shouldn't - we both had a bad spot there, and I think it happens to almost everyone at one point or another (I've certainly done it). I think we can both take some responsibility for that little fracas (I love old-timey word references - I'm personally leading the charge to bring back "groovy").

    I do very much appreciate you mentioning it, which is something everyone should do later on when it happens. Makes the world a better place. So props to you. We're good.

    I think the problem with the last two pages of conversation is that Ego gets caught up in word play (not criticizing him here) and sometimes loses sight of the forest for the trees (as do we all from time to time, including and especially me). Not sure about Josuke - his lash-out-and-then-white-knight thing is weird. He just did it to me in this thread. But looking back at his other posts he's spot on with the overall gist of this conversations sentiment, and I actually agree with him in general overall re victims feelings and such.

    It's interesting what written-only communication can do, especially when combined with virtual anonymity. Sometimes...it can go sideways with people.
    Last edited by cubby; 2021-07-01 at 12:55 AM.

  4. #384
    Reading up on this, I'm honestly flabbergasted.

    Cosby is guilty that's beyond doubt. He practically confessed in exchange for vague promises of being immune to any future prosecution.

    A promise that was never properly put into writing. The court simply chose to accept a vague promise made in a press release by a former prosecutor.

    I wonder, would the court be equally magnanimous had this had happened to Joe Nobody?

  5. #385
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    24,644
    I wonder, would the court be equally magnanimous had this had happened to Joe Nobody?
    Trump hush money *hides*
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    That's how I see it. 3 isn't a win except when compared with 0. And in that case it's a huge win - especially considering the Rapist and their resources.
    And now it's a "Huge win"

    Jesus.

    The whole prosecution of rapists has been set back by like a decade...but wow...what a huge win it is that a man that drugged and raped ~60 women served less than even the minimum of his sentence.

    "Rapist goes free because of legal technicality" is never a win. Never.

    You know you have low standards for success when getting the consolation prize counts as a win...
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-07-01 at 01:57 AM.

  7. #387
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Reading up on this, I'm honestly flabbergasted.

    Cosby is guilty that's beyond doubt. He practically confessed in exchange for vague promises of being immune to any future prosecution.

    A promise that was never properly put into writing. The court simply chose to accept a vague promise made in a press release by a former prosecutor.

    I wonder, would the court be equally magnanimous had this had happened to Joe Nobody?
    The law doesn't apply to the wealthy in Western countries. Lol.

    Once again, statuatory limitations are stupid especially when it comes to sex crimes because it turns justice into a game of how long rich people can keep their victims under NDA.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-07-01 at 01:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  8. #388
    Imagine being those lawyers, knowing Cosby committed all those rapes and going "yeah... screw Justice. Let's get this guy out of his punishment." In a better world those guys would be in a cell right beside Cosby.

  9. #389
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ██████
    Posts
    26,283
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Reading up on this, I'm honestly flabbergasted.

    Cosby is guilty that's beyond doubt. He practically confessed in exchange for vague promises of being immune to any future prosecution.

    A promise that was never properly put into writing. The court simply chose to accept a vague promise made in a press release by a former prosecutor.

    I wonder, would the court be equally magnanimous had this had happened to Joe Nobody?
    If you remove Cosby from the equation and look at shady stuff thats been done in the name of the US justice system, I'm glad such a thing wouldn't need to be in writing. A prosecutor could easily dupe someone out of their rights with a 'deal', which they already of plenty of ways to achieve that anyway.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    And now it's a "Huge win"

    Jesus.

    The whole prosecution of rapists has been set back by like a decade...but wow...what a huge win it is that a man that drugged and raped ~60 women served less than even the minimum of his sentence.

    "Rapist goes free because of legal technicality" is never a win. Never.

    You know you have low standards for success when getting the consolation prize counts as a win...
    You keep saying this. But factually its not true. Laws all over the country have been changed due to this case. 10 years back? Hyperbole. Its not even comparable to chauvin in any regard either. No laws have changed with that case.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Imagine being those lawyers, knowing Cosby committed all those rapes and going "yeah... screw Justice. Let's get this guy out of his punishment." In a better world those guys would be in a cell right beside Cosby.
    Actually, the lawyers are doing exactly what they are supposed to do...providing the best legal defense for their client. Anything less and they should be disbarred.

    Cosby's Lawyers are not the ones at fault here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    You keep saying this. But factually its not true. Laws all over the country have been changed due to this case. 10 years back? Hyperbole. Its not even comparable to chauvin in any regard either. No laws have changed with that case.
    It's not going to matter when the victims see this as proof that it's better to stay silent...

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Imagine being those lawyers, knowing Cosby committed all those rapes and going "yeah... screw Justice. Let's get this guy out of his punishment." In a better world those guys would be in a cell right beside Cosby.
    I don't blame the lawyer. He's doing his job.

    The ethics and morality of being a lawyer are complicated, but attorneys being able to put aside their own personal beliefs to give the best representation possible to their clients whether guilty or not is the cornerstone of our justice system.

    Otherwise we don't have adversarial courts, we'd have inquisitions and kangaroo courts, something that already happens to people who can't afford proper representation.

    The judges in this case on the other hand.

    This was really up to them. They could have said Cosby's prior agreement with the prior DA was invalid as there was no real paper trail for it, they could have done that as easily as they have accepted that agreement.

  13. #393
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,338
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    This was really up to them. They could have said Cosby's prior agreement with the prior DA was invalid as there was no real paper trail for it, they could have done that as easily as they have accepted that agreement.
    Strongly reminded of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Actually, the lawyers are doing exactly what they are supposed to do...providing the best legal defense for their client. Anything less and they should be disbarred.

    Cosby's Lawyers are not the ones at fault here.
    I know they are doing what they are paid to do. But getting a rapist out of prison just because its your job isn't exactly an excuse for me.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    I know they are doing what they are paid to do. But getting a rapist out of prison just because its your job isn't exactly an excuse for me.
    It's not just what they are paid to do. It is what they are ethically obligated to do.

    Again, they are not the ones at fault here.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-07-01 at 02:17 AM.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Actually, the lawyers are doing exactly what they are supposed to do...providing the best legal defense for their client. Anything less and they should be disbarred.

    Cosby's Lawyers are not the ones at fault here.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's not going to matter when the victims see this as proof that it's better to stay silent...
    This isnt a bubble. Metoo all other high profile rape convictions. 10 years back. Sure 10 years after leaping forward centuries if not more.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I don't blame the lawyer. He's doing his job.

    The ethics and morality of being a lawyer are complicated, but attorneys being able to put aside their own personal beliefs to give the best representation possible to their clients whether guilty or not is the cornerstone of our justice system.

    Otherwise we don't have adversarial courts, we'd have inquisitions and kangaroo courts, something that already happens to people who can't afford proper representation.

    The judges in this case on the other hand.

    This was really up to them. They could have said Cosby's prior agreement with the prior DA was invalid as there was no real paper trail for it, they could have done that as easily as they have accepted that agreement.
    The thing is that pertained to a specific case there were other charges.... I don't recall him going to jail over that single charge. So it'd be like saying "you had a deal with A and were convicted of B C D but... becuase of the deal with A screw B C D"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    It's not just what they are paid to do. It is what they are ethically obligated to do.

    Again, they are not the ones at fault here.
    You give poor legal arguments. It is not what they are ethically obligated to do because no lawyer is obligated to be unethical. You can very simple use say virtue ethics to say the actions are unethical and only an unethical person would perform such actions. Lawyers aren't forced to defend people they know are guilty of bad shit.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    The thing is that pertained to a specific case there were other charges.... I don't recall him going to jail over that single charge. So it'd be like saying "you had a deal with A and were convicted of B C D but... becuase of the deal with A screw B C D"

    - - - Updated - - -



    You give poor legal arguments. It is not what they are ethically obligated to do because no lawyer is obligated to be unethical. You can very simple use say virtue ethics to say the actions are unethical and only an unethical person would perform such actions. Lawyers aren't forced to defend people they know are guilty of bad shit.
    They aren't being unethical here though...

  19. #399
    Well shit. But 3 years and a ruined reputation where it's out there what Cosby did is better than nothing. Especially at his age.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    They aren't being unethical here though...
    You're conflating the legality of the lawyer's situation with being ethical. Yes, it is what the lawyers are paid to do and it may also very well be saving their own hides from being disbarred. But will never be ethical or morally right to get a rapist out of prison. Just because its your job or the law demands it doesn't automatically make it ethical.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •