Hiring People from the Elitist Jerks site was a mistake.

[epigramx]

They should had hired from casual communities like pet/mount collectors and stuff so they keep the game more user friendly to new players and absolute newbies so it grows organically and not by keeping hard core players that were already getting old.

I liked the Elitist Jerks website because I wanted to be optimal at raiding but those people banned you for the slightest excuse so it was a huge mistake respecting that for a game that first became successful for being "user friendly Everquest".

[Throwme]

They should

Welcome to a decade old discussion, folks. This is all brand new and exciting.

[Johnjohn]

It's kind of ironic in a way as WoW initially hired a bunch of hardcore EQ players. However, those players had the fore site to see that making the game a niche hardcore game was not the way to go. They ended up making the best casual mmo anyone had ever seen at the time.

It could have worked here, but they just got the wrong guy. Listening to Ion talk tells you all you need to know about his direction for this game. His overly convoluted vernacular translates directly into how the last few expansions have gone. People who think they can quantify fun with metrics and charts usually fall flat on their faces doing so.

[Beuargh]

Welcome to a decade old discussion, folks. This is all brand new and exciting.

yea, it's like resurecting the beaten dead horse just to kill it again so we can beat it again

[pahbi]

Ion and crew are awesome at systems and spreadsheets and metrics and numbers.

They are horrible at fun.

Ion has engineered the perfect game. Now if they could only engineer some fun...

[Kralljin]

I find it hilarious that people keep pointing at the "elitists" for the game not being fun, when the hardcore raiding scene (which is where Ion comes from) generally agrees that they dislike the current state of the game due to the extra bloat and whatnot surrounding optimizing your character.

[Fnatica]

They should had hired from casual communities like pet/mount collectors and stuff so they keep the game more user friendly to new players and absolute newbies so it grows organically and not by keeping hard core players that were already getting old.

I liked the Elitist Jerks website because I wanted to be optimal at raiding but those people banned you for the slightest excuse so it was a huge mistake respecting that for a game that first became successful for being "user friendly Everquest".

welcome to 2009

[Wangming]

I find it hilarious that people keep pointing at the "elitists" for the game not being fun, when the hardcore raiding scene (which is where Ion comes from) generally agrees that they dislike the current state of the game due to the extra bloat and whatnot surrounding optimizing your character.

Well who else to blame, when the game is raid or die. Like what PvE endgame do you have beside mythic + and raiding? You can't say the game was designed for casuals, can you?

[BrintoSFJ]

I clicked to see who necroed an old thread, did not expect it to be new....

[Kralljin]

Well who else to blame, when the game is raid or die.

If anything past Legion is "Raid or die" to you, then you haven't played the game since Wotlk.

At which point, one needs to accept that this is how WoW has always been and people from that hardcore raiding scene have always been involved in WoW's development.

[clevin]

Ion and crew are awesome at systems and spreadsheets and metrics and numbers.

They are horrible at fun.

Ion has engineered the perfect game. Now if they could only engineer some fun...

This is precisely the right point. For those who didn't go to the EJ site, they were awesome resources for theory crafting. They were also complete jerks. If you made a minor grammar error in your question they may well ban you or nuke it.

Anyone from t here, especially the GM (Ion) was a poor hire for anything involving the story or anything having to do with fun. Why do you think we have all of these interlocking systems in the game? Ion is an analytical guy. Great to have when dealing with raid mechanics or character design. Not the guy to oversee story.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Given that people like ion helped make the best content wow has had with things like ulduar it definitely wasn’t a mistake to hire them.

Rather they should have bm move on from encounter design to higher rolls is a whole other question.

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Well who else to blame, when the game is raid or die. Like what PvE endgame do you have beside mythic + and raiding? You can't say the game was designed for casuals, can you?

The game has always been raid or die with almost no end game content outside of raids and mabye some relevant dungeons.

Expans like Sl and bfa likely have the most not raid content of any of them with things like islands torghast and other little things all over rather they are actually good or not.

[Kumorii]

Well who else to blame, when the game is raid or die. Like what PvE endgame do you have beside mythic + and raiding? You can't say the game was designed for casuals, can you?

I mean, just speaking for my guild, the ones who plays the most are the casuals who goes for transmogs and mounts.

Casuals I know got insane amount of content compared to m+ players and raiders.

What would be content for casuals to you? Genuine question. To me, everything that's not m+ or raid is casual content. Which means all the world content and new zones, treasure huntings etc etc.

[aceperson]

the issue wasn't so much hiring old hardcore players. it was putting them in positions of power. ion was a wonderful boss designer. but he sucks balls when it comes to designing a full game.

[Bakis]

Well who else to blame, when the game is raid or die. Like what PvE endgame do you have beside mythic + and raiding? You can't say the game was designed for casuals, can you?

Can you come up with any other form of endgame? You are mad pet battles or daily quests cant be made into endgame?
So what should be endgame PvE in your mind? Please tell us.

[Johnjohn]

I mean, just speaking for my guild, the ones who plays the most are the casuals who goes for transmogs and mounts.

Casuals I know got insane amount of content compared to m+ players and raiders.

What would be content for casuals to you? Genuine question. To me, everything that's not m+ or raid is casual content. Which means all the world content and new zones, treasure huntings etc etc.

For me its the fact that every facet of the game benefits hardcore players more now. For example, one new problem in recent expansions is dungeons used to be considered casual content. Now it is hardcore content thanks to Mythic +. Even transmogs and mounts require hardcore raiding if you want to get all the best ones.

Like you said you have your perspective based on your guild, but from what I see its the complete opposite. There is minimal for casual players to do in SL compared to hardcore players. The whole game (Raiding, dungeons, PVP, collections, transmogs) caters to their playstyle now.

I just have way better options as a casual player for mmos. I don't think the same can be said of WoW. Wow is THE hardcore players paradise.

[Saltysquidoon]

Ah, elitistjerks. That's not a website a Jedi would tell you about...

EDIT

For me its the fact that every facet of the game benefits hardcore players more now. For example, one new problem in recent expansions is dungeons used to be considered casual content. Now it is hardcore content thanks to Mythic +. Even transmogs and mounts require hardcore raiding if you want to get all the best ones.

This has literally always been the case when it came to gear and mounts rewarded from raids this has never changed. Hell I would argue it is easier to get raid gear appearences now since the introduction of LFR.
What sort of copium is this?

[Wangming]

If anything past Legion is "Raid or die" to you, then you haven't played the game since Wotlk.

At which point, one needs to accept that this is how WoW has always been and people from that hardcore raiding scene have always been involved in WoW's development.

Given that people like ion helped make the best content wow has had with things like ulduar it definitely wasn’t a mistake to hire them.

Rather they should have bm move on from encounter design to higher rolls is a whole other question.

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The game has always been raid or die with almost no end game content outside of raids and mabye some relevant dungeons.

Expans like Sl and bfa likely have the most not raid content of any of them with things like islands torghast and other little things all over rather they are actually good or not.

I mean, just speaking for my guild, the ones who plays the most are the casuals who goes for transmogs and mounts.

Casuals I know got insane amount of content compared to m+ players and raiders.

What would be content for casuals to you? Genuine question. To me, everything that's not m+ or raid is casual content. Which means all the world content and new zones, treasure huntings etc etc.

Funny how we can't even agree on simple things like this. Is it raid or die?

For the record how much casual content there is and how much relevant casual content there is, is a different matter. Like what's the endgame for professions? Do you crossbreed plants for your garden? Do you do ocean fishing? Do you decipher teasure maps?

You can't say the game is not made for raiders if the main story is finished in raids and mythic only phases are canon.

Wether the raiders like the content they are given is a different matter.

[Revamp Man]

How is WoW hardcore by design??

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Funny how we can't even agree on simple things like this. Is it raid or die?

For the record how much casual content there is and how much relevant casual content there is, is a different matter. Like what's the endgame for professions? Do you crossbreed plants for your garden? Do you do ocean fishing? Do you decipher teasure maps?

You can't say the game is not made for raiders if the main story is finished in raids and mythic only phases are canon.

Wether the raiders like the content they are given is a different matter.

The fact you can experience the story in lfr and that we haven’t had a mythic only phase actually mean anything for the story in over a decade

Yeah it’s still casual

[ohwell]

They should had hired from casual communities like pet/mount collectors and stuff so they keep the game more user friendly to new players and absolute newbies so it grows organically and not by keeping hard core players that were already getting old.

I liked the Elitist Jerks website because I wanted to be optimal at raiding but those people banned you for the slightest excuse so it was a huge mistake respecting that for a game that first became successful for being "user friendly Everquest".

If you think the game is somehow elitist or not user friendly, you might want to really rethink a lot about yourself in general because it really is incredibly dumbed down and not elitist. If the current state of the game is difficult or problematic, idk maybe might want to look into some vitamins/supplements and mental exercise. I honestly don't know how someone functions in the real world thinking what you just said.