Hiring People from the Elitist Jerks site was a mistake.

[Frozenbro]

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

That the game is anything but raid or die nowadays, u have diff progression paths, so from that perspective the pve raiding/dungeon scene has gotten better giving more access to people over the years, its also less braindead, but in their tiny head they think the game "back then" wasnt raid or die, when in reality if u didnt raid back then u were nothing, hence the "you werent relevant".

[Kallisto]

But wow was never "hard" back in classic to early wotlk? The hard part was to get 25-40 people, lol.

Hell let's just go look at cataclysm. A group of the wow community said "Make content hard again" after the "easy mode dungeons" of Wrath. What happened, within a week everyone was complaining about how hard they got. Ghostcrawler made the "Get good or leave." post and basically outside of WoD gave wow the biggest sub bleed until LFR and easy mode dungeons came in for Dragonsoul. With Ghostcrawler having to apologize for the get good response.

[rhorle]

Ion has engineered the perfect game. Now if they could only engineer some fun...

I find it amusing that you think a perfect game is one where fun does not exist. It really shows how difficult of a battle Blizzard has with making some people happy.

[Daronokk]

The game has always been raid or die with almost no end game content outside of raids and mabye some relevant dungeons.

No, endgame is raiding and dungeons. The whole game is much more about leveling and questing.

[Shaetha]

I find it hilarious that people keep pointing at the "elitists" for the game not being fun, when the hardcore raiding scene (which is where Ion comes from) generally agrees that they dislike the current state of the game due to the extra bloat and whatnot surrounding optimizing your character.

It's actually almost exclusively those people complaining in my experience.

[Frozenbro]

It's actually almost exclusively those people complaining in my experience.

Poor experience then, cuz hardcore players were also the first to complain about covenants not being good for the game, but go on, keep believing in your lie xd

[Shaetha]

Poor experience then, cuz hardcore players were also the first to complain about covenants not being good for the game, but go on, keep believing in your lie xd

So you're disagreeing with me by saying something that supports what I said?

[minteK917]

The padding of different grind to do the only supported progress in the game (pve) is the problem of wow. Been for manu expansion. Is the reason alt suck ass most of the time. I dont think its a handful of people from that website that changed that. Blizzard attempt to force you to log on everyday by padding everything as much as possible with time wasters. We were gear capped all the time in tbc and wotlk, with just waiting for the next week reset, yet we still logged. Because we loved playing the game. They dont need to make us feel like its a job and if you dont log on every minute possible you are falling behind on shit. Wow pve has become one of those shitty korean mmo we used to look down upon with its time wasting grind to do anything. That was the whole point of making wow how it was. Remove the grinds, the loot was the grind.

[Lady Atia]

The padding of different grind to do the only supported progress in the game (pve) is the problem of wow. Been for manu expansion. Is the reason alt suck ass most of the time. I dont think its a handful of people from that website that changed that. Blizzard attempt to force you to log on everyday by padding everything as much as possible with time wasters. We were gear capped all the time in tbc and wotlk, with just waiting for the next week reset, yet we still logged. Because we loved playing the game. They dont need to make us feel like its a job and if you dont log on every minute possible you are falling behind on shit. Wow pve has become one of those shitty korean mmo we used to look down upon with its time wasting grind to do anything. That was the whole point of making wow how it was. Remove the grinds, the loot was the grind.

Wow, you seriously can look both at the absurd amount of FOMO exclusives from rated pvp aswell as good gear there during season 1 and still claim "pvp is not a supported progress"? PvP get more candies than they deserve, and they still want more?! O.o

[Smallfruitbat]

The mistake is trying to force the player base logging in multiple times a week for the entire expac.

Putting in systems to keep players engaged back-fired massively. If Activision ever accept that players sub for the bits they enjoy and then go do something else until the next patch, I'm sure things will run smoother.

[Gorsameth]

Thats becouse Blizzard pushes acessability so much that literaly most of the content is super boring. You end up with content where everything has to be medicore and beatable by most people which makes that content boring. So only way to make sure players will do this boring content is to link player power to that content. So now you retain high acessability and players will still end up doing this boring content.

I dont know how Blizzard dont get this but. ACESSABILITY doesnt work and never will work. More acessability was forced on WoW more problems were created and game become more and more boring. Why Blizzard have such problem to accept simple fact that certain games are simply not for everyone. Instead of creating mmo for mmo fans they create mmo for everybody. And i mean everybody including for your 80y old grandma what have no idea what pc is.

accessibility is what has made WoW the most successful MMO in history.
Hard to say accessibility is a mistake with a strait face.

[JessicaJones]

Ion was an "elitist" 15 years ago, he wouldn't make the cut in most heroic guilds if it wasn't for who he is now.

[VinceVega]

I seriously don't know where this whole "WoW is now raid or die" coming from.

Wow is further away from that than it ever was... you have more to do outside of raiding than EVER.
A whole new playstyle for 5 man groups was implemented.

But i guess the only thing people that say this care about is that they get mythic level for doing nothing.

What was there to do before legion outside of raiding? Dungeons... which you still can do... and get max level loot out of it. Which you did not before...

You could have the most fullfilling SP casual experienxe outside of raiding and groups ever and people would still bitch, that they can't get max geared without a group.

Elitist Jerk did not destroy wow. Gamers who play MMOs as a single player did or are trying to with their ridicioulus demands.

Wow was really accesible in classic. And then they made it easier and easier and easier so now people want everything without doing anything.

[Echo of Soul]

The mistake is trying to force the player base logging in multiple times a week for the entire expac.

Putting in systems to keep players engaged back-fired massively. If Activision ever accept that players sub for the bits they enjoy and then go do something else until the next patch, I'm sure things will run smoother.

I think that this is the key point. If the mage tower was forced content tied to player power it would have been much less popular.

The game should obviously have core content for player power that's always the same. Dungeons, Raids, PvP and Justice/Valor for example. If you don't like any of those then maybe the game isn't for you but if you slap on new ever changing required content on top of those you're going to get a lot of pushback from the players because they feel that you're ruining what they want to do by forcing them to do a bunch of different shit.

[Kokolums]

I seriously don't know where this whole "WoW is now raid or die" coming from.

Wow is further away from that than it ever was... you have more to do outside of raiding than EVER.

as i said, SL is actually raid or die because ALL of the mogs and mounts are ugly. look at the mail sets for maldraxxus. ugly garbage, theres 4 of them, and the tints are almost all the same. and if the rewards are trash, the stuff to do to get them might as well not exist. so its raid or die.

[Ange]

Hard to say accessibility is a mistake with a strait face.

Motivation to keep playing is just the other side of the coin and thats usually the things in any MMO that you did not reach yet. Keeping both things in balance is the hard part.

Dumbing down the game is not the hard part, keeping 1% of the game unreachable for the average player, while creating the perception that everybody can climb up to the 1% is the trick to keep people engaged.

WoW was never casual friendly on a second look, things like the R14 grind were without the TBC hotfixes were pretty cruel for time played even compared to the most hardcore MMOs out there.

WoW devs did a pretty good job with the carrot on the stick, they have to package it new every few years and some variants work better as others, but the game is still what it was.

A casual noob still thinks WoW is easy, just as a noob 16 years ago. The system works, seen in this forum, people dont even understand how far away the 1% is and how much time it would take them to get there.

The whole DEV bashing is funny, since they never changed the basic WoW system.

[Kralljin]

Hard to say accessibility is a mistake with a strait face.

It becomes however a problem when you make too many decisions in favour of it.

A criticism, mind you, even Morhaime shares towards development of WoW.

[Alanar]

I mean, just speaking for my guild, the ones who plays the most are the casuals who goes for transmogs and mounts.

Casuals I know got insane amount of content compared to m+ players and raiders.

What would be content for casuals to you? Genuine question. To me, everything that's not m+ or raid is casual content. Which means all the world content and new zones, treasure huntings etc etc.

Insane amount... realy?

Even people here lose it. There is not much content in general... treasure hunting is non excisting and new zones and stuff is for everyone.. the major develop time goes into the raids and dung. But for a while now its just not cutting it an we all know it.

[Alkizon]

So... at first I thought there could be some answers, but then it changed back to this stuff.

[cuafpr]

re-hashed this with a coworker the other day and think it shows more now than the initial hires as more of the OG retire/move on the "elitist jerks" crew has moved up and had more control over the game. Regardless I hope they can turn it around either in SL or the next expac...