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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Eh. Classic and BC didn't do a great job with their villains, either.
    Vanilla villains generally get a pass because none of them are overarching, most of them are completely new and they have no pretense.

    They are either an aggressively local problem with a local motivation or they are just generically mustache twirlers because in-universe they are engineered to be nothing but pure evil.
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  2. #42
    1) Give him more screen time. He's barely shown. and make it a bit more elaborate and interesting than "yes... it is going according to my plan".
    2) Dress him in a more menacing outfit. Like a Lich King one. He's basically muscular like every Orc character, but that's about it.

  3. #43
    Scarab Lord Auxis's Avatar
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    I'm indifferent towards him, but I'm open to seeing where his story goes.

    I don't get the hate towards him regarding his lack of background. A character like Sargeras had almost no interaction with us in any game, simply relying on written background and feats in lore books and he's treated like a literal god. The Jailer has been left mysterious with nuggets of information regarding his past and he's treated like trash? If they gave us half of his story up front I can imagine people would drag him through the dirt for being overwritten.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    When Danuser's "oh noes he was BEHIND EVERYTHING and better than stupid Metzen's stuff, maybe Sylvanas will notice me now, she's so hawt" villain is best summed up by a parody, it's hard to take him remotely seriously.

    Thanks man. I love it

  5. #45
    There were speculations in recent expansions that Sargeras will win, that Azshara will win and then that N'zoth will win. I don't expect any plot twists of that nature. I am curious to learn more about the Jailer and hope but doubt it won't be generic bad guy who was cast away for being bad and seeks revenge. At present the information we got on him is too little to even like or dislike him, but I think visually he is good, although not iconic.

    I wish to be proven wrong and the writing picks up.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    ???? Killrog was part of both the first and second war, leading the Bleeding Hollow clan.
    He wasn't invented for wod.
    Not to mention the part where he was a dungeon boss in TBC.
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    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
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    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Not to mention the part where he was a dungeon boss in TBC.
    Eh... i think you are mistaking him for Kargath.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  8. #48
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    As an individual villain, he's fine. He says threatening things & seems to have a plan & purpose. However, he doesn't really feel like a threatening end boss and I think that's because no one has really sold for him.

    To give you an idea of what I mean, there's an old saying in wrestling that "you go out on your back." It in essence means that wrestlers tend to lose their last retirement match in order to put someone else over. Sylvanas felt like a much bigger threat after she largely one-shot Saurfang with her Maw energy, especially after what he did in SoO. The Legion assault on the Broken Shore felt pretty intense as it was, but losing Varian & Vol'jin drove home just how much of a threat that invasion was. That's not to say that the only way to elevate someone is through a major death, there are plenty of characters elevated throughout time & story. But with the Jailer being so new & no one selling just how dangerous he really is, he feels less like a major cosmic threat and more like a Sailor Moon villain of the week.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    He's better than Cata Deathwing but he's still the second worst expansion main villain. Archimonde in WoD doesn't count because despite having equally as many character traits (i.e nill) he's so out of focus that it doesn't matter. Ditto Argus, since Gul'dan and Sargeras were the 'real' respective villains of those expansions.
    While Cata Deathwing was a botched abortion of a character, he at least had his pre-Cata portrayal to look back to (through the lens of the "look how they massacred my boy" meme, but still something). Blue gimp lord doesn't even have that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Antontein View Post
    Just out of curiosity: Who would you consider non generic villain and why?
    Kel'Thuzad. Formerly a high ranking and respected member of the Kirin Tor. Competely trusted for years. Antonidas introduced Jaina to him when she was an apprentice. He mysteriously accepted the Lich King's offer of power, even though he was in a very powerful position. All of this makes you suspect he has grand designs to greatly surpass the Lich King. Indeed, he survived and endured even after the Lich King fell, his phylactery keeping him from being killed.

    But of course, the new writers are going to utterly trash his lore and he will simply be cannon fodder in the 9.1 raid. We destroy his phylactery and that's it. The end. No fanfare. Ugh. Disgusting. KT had such potential and these writers ruined him.

    Kel'Thuzad should have been the big bad of Shadowlands.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Eh... i think you are mistaking him for Kargath.
    Whoopsie, my bad. Well, there was still Kilrogg's son in TBC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    They wanted to have a mysterious villain, but I think they went TOO mysterious with him.

    We have no idea who he is, what he wants, or what's at stake. Everything is super generic, vague, and general as hell - basically the epitome of "bad guy wants to end world" with little nuance or investment. Without knowing the stakes and the motivation, we can't really get invested, and without getting invested, everything just feels super stale and boring.
    the funny thing is we don't even know if he wants to end the world. he wants the sigils so he can "control his destiny" or some crap like that. we don't know what he wants, how he's going to try and get it, or why.

  13. #53
    They thought "he's actually behind everything you ever loved or hated, big plans" development would actually be appealing. Big mistake.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by aceperson View Post
    the funny thing is we don't even know if he wants to end the world. he wants the sigils so he can "control his destiny" or some crap like that. we don't know what he wants, how he's going to try and get it, or why.
    Well, we know how, by relying on plot-mandated stupidity, that part of his plan is working like a charm...

    But yeah, without a "What does he actually want?" and "Why does he want it?", it all falls rather flat.

  15. #55
    Echoing what most people tend to say, I find him to be an interestingly enough designed villain (I think I prefer his design more than most do) with plot hooks to accompany -- the problem being those hooks so far are exactly just that. After 2 years of wondering wtf Sylvanas' motivations were, we have yet another antagonist whose plans are almost entirely vague, and if not for that then perhaps his mysterious air would be tolerable. I expect we'll get a lot more of his backstory in future patches, and the ending of 9.1 seems like he'll actually have a big win.

    The glaring issue I have with him is how the writers have attributed countless plot beats of past villains to his own design. Not only does it make the previous enemies we've faced seem like insignificant pawns and take away from their victories, but it makes us spite Zovaal in turn. There's also the problem of his dialogue so far being generic bad-guy bluster 1000.

    I can safely say he has a baller soundtrack, though.

  16. #56
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varolyn View Post
    Honestly, he just feels like a ripoff of the Dark Lord in the Doom Eternal DLCs, who also isn’t all that interesting to begin with. And with how SL is going, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Jailer had a similar backstory to the Dark Lord, for those of you who have played the Eternal DLCs.
    I mean in Eternal it didn't really matter as all the bad lore was dumped and introduced as a load of crap in the same game (well game and dlcs) but if the Blizzard Devs intended to go through with a big reveal being that everything has been lies and Zovaal created the universe and everything in WoW and none of the previous lore is even relevant... Well first I wouldn't believe it and second I'd give up on the game at that point.
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  17. #57
    He's boring. Like. Really boring.
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  18. #58
    Eh. He's super boring, imo.

    The fact that they thought that it was a good idea to say "Well really he was pulling the strings of the Scourge and Burning Legion all along!", speaks volumes about how little effort they're putting into creating substantial new story ideas. It undermines the old lore/characters and it makes the new stuff look entirely unoriginal and stale.

  19. #59
    He's uninteresting because he has no positive / redeeming qualities. They vaguely hint at some kind of betrayal from the other Eternal Ones? But at the same time they also frame that as him seeking sort of forbidden power of his own volition and being punished for doing so, so yeah.


  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    He's like a Warcraft version of Thanos minus the interesting parts. People will forget about him the moment 10.0 hits the servers.
    Soooo Darkseid?
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
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