Bolsonaro's Presidency

[Specialka]

Why do y'all always jump to trivializing the Holocaust? Didn't Greene's latest humiliation on that send out a message that it's a bad point of comparison unless we're talking about literal genocide?

Just oppose them loudly and consistently whenever they're present or they're pushing hate. It's not fuckin rocket surgery.

But we were talking about calling them "evil" which is a big step forward of opposing them loudly.

[uuuhname]

But we were talking about calling them "evil" which is a big step forward of opposing them loudly.

you're whining about them being called evil. probably because when push comes to shove you agree with the bigots more than the progressives. why else are you defending the indefensible?

[Elegiac]

But we were talking about calling them "evil" which is a big step forward of opposing them loudly.

You do realise that insisting that "calling someone evil is a form of dehumanization" in fact makes it much harder for people to recognize instances of evil when it happens, yes?

"He can't be a bigot because he's polite" is the direct result of that mindset.

[Edge-]

But we were talking about calling them "evil" which is a big step forward of opposing them loudly.

And now we're back to tone policing, because calling people with long histories of being hateful bigots and pushing actual policies and laws that harm minorities "evil" is fairly accurate.

So are we tone policing or dealing with actual issues here? You say you want to do the latter but you seem stuck on the former.

[Specialka]

And now we're back to tone policing, because calling people with long histories of being hateful bigots and pushing actual policies and laws that harm minorities "evil" is fairly accurate.

So are we tone policing or dealing with actual issues here? You say you want to do the latter but you seem stuck on the former.

I just know that your way does not work and makes them bigger bigot.

[Elegiac]

I just know that your way does not work and makes them bigger bigot.

Fascism only started resurging in the West once people started being civil to fascists, so...

It's your word versus reality. Lol.

[beanman12345]

I just know that your way does not work and makes them bigger bigot.

I have actually shamed someone into not being a bigot anymore. So you'll excuse me for discarding your advice.

[Elegiac]

--

Hmm...

And now we're back to tone policing

I swear you could put up a brick wall with a sign saying "Do Not Run Headfirst Into This" and there'd be a bevy of libertarians lining up to try and Platform Nine and Three Quarter it before the mortar's dry.

[Specialka]

Fascism only started resurging in the West once people started being civil to fascists, so...

It's your word versus reality. Lol.

How goes the "conversion" of bigots when you tell them they are evil ? Go try that on some and come back tell us how it went (and how many days you had to stay in the hospital) ?

[Elegiac]

How goes the "conversion" of bigots when you tell them they are evil ?

You really have a penchant for strawman arguments.

The mistake is in assuming we're trying to convert bigots. Here's the thing: we're not trying to convert them.

[Specialka]

I have actually shamed someone into not being a bigot anymore. So you'll excuse me for discarding your advice.

Did you tell him he was evil ? Or did you explain the issue with his reasoning etc ... ?

[uuuhname]

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if you voted for any US presidential candidate in any general election then you're literally in the exact same boat as them.

[Dezerte]

While it's certainly possible to reason with someone to not be a bigot... shaming and ostracization also works, and may sometimes be the only resort left when reason doesn't work.

[Elegiac]

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Thank you. I know y'all zoomers are super into the Harry Potter and the clock app so I try to stay topical.

- - - Updated - - -

While it's certainly possible to reason with someone to not be a bigot... shaming and ostracization also works, and may sometimes be the only resort left when reason doesn't work.

Again: the point of ostracization is not to convert people from bigotry. It's a public safety measure.

For instance - when a medical student is outed as being a massive racist and they don't get ostracized, what happens is they end up going on to be a massively racist doctor, which then results in decreased healthcare outcomes for minorities that are unfortunate enough to come into their care.

Bigotry is not and never has been a function of personal virtue.

[beanman12345]

Did you tell him he was evil ? Or did you explain the issue with his reasoning etc ... ?

More the former, than the latter. but this was offline face to face, you actually think anyone on this site is gonna make a bigot more or less of a bigot? rofl. The real bigots don't come here in good faith, and the rest are also not posting in good faith just for the trolling lols. Like seriously...

[uuuhname]

Again: the point of ostracization is not to convert people from bigotry. It's a public safety measure.

my god those four weeks after Trump left office did more for my mental health than any amount of therapy could do over a decade.

[shimerra]

I just know that your way does not work and makes them bigger bigot.

Your method of appeasement and excuse making for bad behavior doesn't seem to work.

[Slant]

And replaced it with a hateful, anti-science, anti-thinking regime that calls everyone they don't like "gay" and cheers on clearcutting the rainforest. Not exactly an improvement.

Odd that you'd think that's a "good" thing.



They're regressing right now dude, not progressing.



"Those racist, hateful, homophobic people just need to blow off some steam every now and then!"

Not a great argument either.

Are you sure you don't want to implement "The Purge"? People like PC2 would love it, I think.

[Mihalik]

It might be time to start having some serious philosophical discussions about the validity of democracy as a model.

The mantra was always that it prevented extreme viewpoints by requiring the support of the masses, and frankly, the last decade or so have shown that to be an outright fuckin' lie.

I say this as someone who's always supported democratic ideals and who doesn't have an answer.

Democracy always had its issues. It is always prone to being kneecaped by demagoguery.

Plato's Republic has already pointed this is out in the earliest days of democracy.

Democracy, modern liberal democracy, democracy as we understand it and experience it today, born out of the Enlightenment has very heavily relied on humanist Enlightenment thought and Enlightenment institutions such as public education and a certain respect for empiricism to reign in the worst tendencies of democracy.

The problem is, what do you do when the systems and institutions we rely on to moderate democracy are gradually eroded to the point where they lose their effectiveness?

A logical answer would be reinforcing said systems and institutions before they are irredeemably weakened.

The problem is, the scale of the problem is often not fully realized until it might be too late.

Like honest to God.... Imagine if on the 6th that mob would have made it into the House chambers before the evacuation. That's a nightmare scenario and even if somehow Biden would have still been inaugurated, the institutional damage would have been irreversible.

The US for example still has now, a brief window, possibly until 2022 to do sufficient reform to save itself, but it's a rapidly closing window and I fear we're blowing it.

Brazil hopefully goes 180 and Bolsonaro loses bad enough to lose all notions of legitimacy. Because if he will manage to hold onto any shred of it, I just don't see him ever giving up power.

[Elegiac]

Are you sure you don't want to implement "The Purge"? People like PC2 would love it, I think.

It will forever amuse me that people don't get that movie is a satire specifically about privileged middle class people who social darwinism only to find that the only thing making them "fitter" than the rest of society is...society. Lul.