Sanctum of Domination Ending cinematic

[Dastreus]

I haven't played since early BFA. But even I gathered, from the monumental amount of clues, that the Jailor was behind the Scourge, and Frostmourne, and it was all his intent to bring Death to reality (or at least Azeroth) and to control. It bothered me so much that Sylvanas would hate the Lich King, and then side with the Lich King's fucking boss... and this, this is the point she realizes "Oh he wants to make people serve like Arthas did to me"? Wow. Alrighty, then. The writers made Sylvanas seem like a complete dunce.

[Minikin]

This is a subtle reminder that now ion wants us to "discuss" the story arc.

[Super Dickmann]

Not to mention that she was totally oblivious of his clearly malicious motives and his link to Arthas despite the Mourneblades, despite Kel’Thuzad working for him and despite his whole style and aesthetic being based around torture, subjugation and death.

But it takes him literally putting on “Lich King like” helmet and saying “the word” to finally “tick” it in her head! Oh wait! He was a bad guy subjugator all along! How blind i was! Incredible!

Also on whom blame for genocide lies now? First it was shifted from Horde to Sylvanas, now she apparently no longer to blame? (I mean we all know how that will end with Thrall, Bolvar and Jaina being her “judges”.)

As for Tyrande… Boi oh boi… It will be either “she cannot forgive Sylvanas and we have to stop her” or “she forgives her and lets go of hate” and its even worse…

She's in the same raid as Kel'thuzad. He's literally a room away. The fact that this glaring hole as large as the cosmic anus the Blue Man uses to leave the patch behind is never addressed is this whole braindead storyline in a nutshell. Kel'thuzad is the whole reason her homeland was destroyed for and under the terrible retcon he was apparently working for the Blue Man all along. I know the writers didn't forget about this because they themselves brought attention to it with Kael not one patch ago. Not just once either, but repeatedly.

What exactly triggered her revelation? Was it him using a random word? Was it him trying to kill people she tried to kill (except Bolvar, she never tried to kill him for some reason)? Which of these signals was stronger than living in a torture tower filled with the screaming souls of guilty and innocent alike, using the same shit as the Lich King and filling job vacancies with his former staff?

For the life of me I have absolutely no idea what the fuck they were trying to accomplish. Everyone involved in this cinematic and in general this plot comes across as an amateur lobotomy patient, except the Blue Man I suppose.

Think the RedLetterMedia character test. Describe Zovaal for me without referring to his job, how he looks, or his role in the story.

He's kind of slow and a bit of an asshole. He's also sad about his family and felt anxiety about losing his job to automation. Him destroying the Arbiter, the machine who stole his job and then leaving Oribos, a city of constructs, behind is symbolic of his anarcho-primitivist beliefs.

[Caerule]

It's easy to miss that this cinematic is about The Jailer betraying Sylvanas. She was made to believe she was on the path to "set us all free". Instead, The Jailer is just another fool out to rule. He betrayed her. The Jailer, according to her words to Anduin, was to be this chosen one that would break the current system, in favor of one that offered true freedom. That was a lie. That makes her turn. But this is completely unclear, because Blizzard is keeping Sylvanas and the Jailer's true plans a mystery. Which is really biting them in the ass, and they just can't see it.

My opinion on the cinematic itself:
If you can't understand the Jailer, turn the subtitles on. They have his words accurately.

As for the cinematic, it gave me 3 out of the 5 things I wanted.
1. Jailer gets his heart back. Gets better look. Cool.
2. Sylvanas betrays the Jailer. Was kind of expecting it, though not necessarily this way. Nice though.
3. Sylvanas gets her soul restored. Didn't expect that, but well foreshadowed. Nice.
4. Zovaal's promised plan, revealed. Didn't get this one. The "-and I want to rule it all!" part, sure. But not the actual part that tempted Sylvanas.
5. Insight into what's ahead. Sure, that was a First One portal, based on the fractal design. But it's not an "Argus portal" or "Sargeras Sword" level reveal.

Overall, it misses the stuff I wanted most. I wanted to know the Jailer's temptation. And stronger hints at the next patch. But, I liked the other stuff. 7/10 for me.

People are totally upset about "redemption". I think that's overblown. Sylvanas isn't coming back to Azeroth. She's not going to ever be seen as a hero, unless she somehow resurrects the people she burned. The only redemption in store for her, is the original Grom Hellscream kind.

She's a source of information now. If we're lucky, we'll get more of that in 9.2.5. I wish they hadn't moved the book till next year. Either way, she's not coming back to the Horde as Forsaken leader. Shadowlands is goodbye for her. I wouldn't worry so much about her escaping all consequences for her actions, just because she is now able to feel sorry for them.

No one's mentioned how The Arbiter is dead also.

You can see her corpse withering away as the orb's travelling.

No one can judge souls anymore.

I did notice that one. That certainly complicates fixing the Shadowlands. I guess for now it means souls will continue pouring into the Maw?

Jailer uses a portal with fractal patterns. The new broker documents talk about a 7th cosmological force and refers to it as fractals.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to recognize that one. First Ones magic. Guess he's not bluffing about remaking the cosmos.

[Vakir]

For the life of me I have absolutely no idea what the fuck they were trying to accomplish. Everyone involved in this cinematic and in general this plot comes across as an amateur lobotomy patient, except the Blue Man I suppose.

Nah, he still gave up three perfectly good pawns, one on a demigod level (two of whom he already wanted in service to him) and left a treacherous lieutenant that has already been established to be insanely powerful and resourceful on her own. It was a cute mic drop to give back her soul and say "lol, now you go to mortal jail" but it was also a really stupid move that's so obviously going to backfire.

And the Jailer is supposed to have some level of prior knowledge about the politics and social machinations if he had two past Lich King pawns plus an entire vampire army at his disposal through Denathrius. He should know that those three are the type that will absolutely work with Sylvanas in the end if they have to. He could've just blown off all of her extremities, taken out her eyes, and then left her alive to rot in their custody anyway. Instead he really didn't do anything of value in response to her giving him lip.

[VladlTutushkin]

She's in the same raid as Kel'thuzad. He's literally a room away. The fact that this glaring hole as large as the cosmic anus the Blue Man uses to leave the patch behind is never addressed is this whole braindead storyline in a nutshell. Kel'thuzad is the whole reason her homeland was destroyed for and under the terrible retcon he was apparently working for the Blue Man all along. I know the writers didn't forget about this because they themselves brought attention to it with Kael not one patch ago. Not just once either, but repeatedly.

What exactly triggered her revelation? Was it him using a random word? Was it him trying to kill people she tried to kill (except Bolvar, she never tried to kill him for some reason)? Which of these signals was stronger than living in a torture tower filled with the screaming souls of guilty and innocent alike, using the same shit as the Lich King and filling job vacancies with his former staff?

For the life of me I have absolutely no idea what the fuck they were trying to accomplish. Everyone involved in this cinematic and in general this plot comes across as an amateur lobotomy patient, except the Blue Man I suppose.



He's kind of slow and a bit of an asshole. He's also sad about his family and felt anxiety about losing his job to automation.

Only thing that makes me feel a bit better about this whole thing is ironically the fact that Sylvanas was never a master planner.

She was a dumb, vapid moron genuinely sucking on a coolaid tube of the Jailer.

She thought he would do some “great recolution” or something but instead he just put a proverbial crown on his head and smacked her with a sceptre.

And she was like “woooow… i never expected that…”.

Hard to hate someone so stupid. She honestly as naive as a newborn!

But still, where does the blame go then? And… What about the whole “resolution for the genocide” and all?

[Gadzooks]

It's on the front page of mmo-champ and wowhead, that's plenty of exposure, specially considering it's raid launch/new m+ season day.

Don't bother, he's not worth responding to.

[Vakir]

He's kind of slow and a bit of an asshole. He's also sad about his family and felt anxiety about losing his job to automation. Him destroying the Arbiter, the machine who stole his job and then leaving Oribos, a city of constructs, behind is symbolic of his anarcho-primitivist beliefs.

Ah, so Tyler Durden by way of 21st-century economic anxieties.

Nevermind, he's a brilliant and multi-faceted character, 11/10.

[Super Dickmann]

Nah, he still gave up three perfectly good pawns, one on a demigod level (two of whom he already wanted in service to him) and left a treacherous lieutenant that has already been established to be insanely powerful and resourceful on her own. It was a cute mic drop to give back her soul and say "lol, now you go to mortal jail" but it was also a really stupid move that's so obviously going to backfire.

And the Jailer is supposed to have some level of prior knowledge about the politics and social machinations if he had two past Lich King pawns plus an entire vampire army at his disposal through Denathrius. He should know that those three are the type that will absolutely work with Sylvanas in the end if they have to. He could've just blown off all of her extremities, taken out her eyes, and then left her alive to rot in their custody anyway. Instead he really didn't do anything of value in response to her giving him lip.

Oh, it'll obviously backfire, but it's consistent. He also lets his siblings live despite having the chance to kill them, both with stabbing Kyrestia but not finishing her off and with stealing the Primus's plot device but not offing him. In as much as he has any character, being a petty dick who wants to rub his victory in the faces of people is about as far as it gets. It's even emphasized in the stupid cutscene when the first thing he does once he gains phenomenal cosmic powers is to make some mortals who mildly inconvenienced him kneel.

I also can't really fault his reasoning. As @VladlTutushkin says, the real plot twist is that Sylvanas is a legendarily gullible moron who took him at his word. He's played her like a fiddle despite how obviously evil he was for the majority of her undead existence. Everything she has achieved power-wise lately is thanks to the buffs he provided her and she was obviously a lot less in his confidence than say, Denathrius, who accurately described his plan being a simple power game last patch. We as the audience know she'll take up the Illidan role, but if you were the Blue Man, the most powerful Thanos impersonator in the setting, fresh off of achieving everything you were after and opposed by some dickhead with an axe, a third-degree burn victim and Jaina, would you seriously think this bint was any threat to you if her IQ is so low she can barely walk and chew maw bubblegum at the same time?

Ah, so Tyler Durden by way of 21st-century economic anxieties.

Nevermind, he's a brilliant and multi-faceted character, 11/10.

Now you're getting it. Him ditching Sylvanas is also an analogy to a failing marriage. Zovaal leaving her and the friend circle of hers that he never really liked in the first place is him taking agency in his life and reasserting his masculinity. It's not a coincidence that his transformation is demonstrated by way of him putting on clothes and heading out into the unknown rather than working from home in his pants, yet another way he rejects the modern work experience in favor of fulfilling self-employment.

[Vakir]

Oh, it'll obviously backfire, but it's consistent. He also lets his siblings live despite having the chance to kill them, both with stabbing Kyrestia but not finishing her off and with stealing the Primus's plot device but not offing him. In as much as he has any character, being a petty dick who wants to rub his victory in the faces of people is about as far as it gets. It's even emphasized in the stupid cutscene when the first thing he does once he gains phenomenal cosmic powers is to make some mortals who mildly inconvenienced him kneel.

That's fair. If that IS his characterization they're going for - someone deeply petty and extremely personal with the way they attain victory and wanting to just be satisfied with that unto itself, they could've given him a bit more of an inflection to...literally anything he does.

But god, they really did a number on Sylvanas, huh? I don't even like her direction post-Cata and I feel for the poor sod.

[Kyphael]

I obviously missed something, but how long has Sylvanas been missing part of her soul?

[Aucald]

I obviously missed something, but how long has Sylvanas been missing part of her soul?

It was alluded to in the recent book World of Warcraft: Folk & Fairy Tales of Azeroth, in a story with Vereesa entering the Shadowlands, encountering the Jailer, and failing to rescue a portion of Sylvanas' sundered soul. It was unclear at the time if this story was meant to be literal, or something Vereesa simply hoped for - but now it seems to have come to pass.

[Ielenia]

That may be true, but Illidan's choice still made no sense in the context of his character. It contradicted everything he stood for.

It makes sense because the whole point of Illidan's crusade is about freedom, it's about destroying the Burning Legion who seeks to enslave everyone. And Xe'ra's offer was just that: enslavement, servitude.

Incredibly hypocritical considering he basically enslaved the Broken back in Outland, but still.

[Traveler Voltin]

i am curious if there is any post raid dialogue if you try to talk to Jaina, Bolvar, or Thrall.

[Galkura]

Oh, it'll obviously backfire, but it's consistent. He also lets his siblings live despite having the chance to kill them, both with stabbing Kyrestia but not finishing her off and with stealing the Primus's plot device but not offing him. In as much as he has any character, being a petty dick who wants to rub his victory in the faces of people is about as far as it gets. It's even emphasized in the stupid cutscene when the first thing he does once he gains phenomenal cosmic powers is to make some mortals who mildly inconvenienced him kneel.

I also can't really fault his reasoning. As @VladlTutushkin says, the real plot twist is that Sylvanas is a legendarily gullible moron who took him at his word. He's played her like a fiddle despite how obviously evil he was for the majority of her undead existence. Everything she has achieved power-wise lately is thanks to the buffs he provided her and she was obviously a lot less in his confidence than say, Denathrius, who accurately described his plan being a simple power game last patch. We as the audience know she'll take up the Illidan role, but if you were the Blue Man, the most powerful Thanos impersonator in the setting, fresh off of achieving everything you were after and opposed by some dickhead with an axe, a third-degree burn victim and Jaina, would you seriously think this bint was any threat to you if her IQ is so low she can barely walk and chew maw bubblegum at the same time?



Now you're getting it. Him ditching Sylvanas is also an analogy to a failing marriage. Zovaal leaving her and the friend circle of hers that he never really liked in the first place is him taking agency in his life and reasserting his masculinity. It's not a coincidence that his transformation is demonstrated by way of him putting on clothes and heading out into the unknown rather than working from home in his pants, yet another way he rejects the modern work experience in favor of fulfilling self-employment.

100% Thanos should have known to kill Hulk, Scarlet Witch, and the Human Torch here.

Considering he had a presence enough on Azeroth to fuck with things there, and people to feed him information, the dude should 100% know to kill us before he dips. The people of Azeroth constantly overcome any and all odds, probably due to some blessing from our titan, who is probably going to end up related to the First Ones or some shit.

For an immortal god of death, who has been planning all this for ages, he should know to kill any possible opposition, regardless of if he thinks he’s unstoppable now. Especially considering one of the people is one of his former lieutenants now, who he now made feel bad about the stuff she did.

It honestly just feels like bad writing. I’m still surprised they didn’t let Sylvanas hit him with an arrow and have the Jailer remark that she “should have gone for the head”.

[Super Dickmann]

That's fair. If that IS his characterization they're going for - someone deeply petty and extremely personal with the way they attain victory and wanting to just be satisfied with that unto itself, they could've given him a bit more of an inflection to...literally anything he does.

I genuinely think that's what they're going for. The cinematic puts a lot of emphasis on his first use of his power being on the Bland Gang. He does that even before he goes on his spiel about cosmic power. That Fairy Tale story where he puts Vereesa through a whole Orpheus-style quest to find her sister's soul, solely so he can watch her fail and get across a point about how family will always let you down has the same vibe. I think we're intended to see him as someone who has grand goals that people like Sylvanas, Devos etc. project onto him, but in reality he's just a massive asshole with his brother Denny being the only one who really gets it.

It's not a bad concept for a baddie either, the execution is just dreadful so there's a few times where he acts like that and 99% of the time he acts like all his lines were written by an AI who's been fed back to back comic book movies.

But god, they really did a number on Sylvanas, huh? I don't even like her direction post-Cata and I feel for the poor sod.

She got dicked completely. She got her redemption, but as is appropriate for a Marvel rip-off, it cost her everything. From her brain to her dignity. After she and Anduin have settled in a seaside cottage together at the end of this expansion she'll cry herself to sleep at night, looking out the window and wishing she'd gone out like Garrosh.

@Galkura

It is bad writing, no doubt about that, but unlike a lot of Warcraft bad writing, it's consistent. He has done this in every situation presented to him thus far without fail. The very fact that he's stupidly old and has also achieved everything he set out to do thus far along with how his opposition is cast as equal parts ineffectual and braindead make him come across as less overconfident and more BM-ing in a won match. It's a case where we the audience knowing what's going to happen doesn't translate to Thanos knowing it or having any reason to believe it.

[Saltysquidoon]

So the implication by association here is Arthas is a gud boi and we have to recover the other part of his soul as he was not responsible for his actions.

Maybe next expansion we'll get a book the retcons recontextualizes his actions and even explains we only won in ICC (after losing) because he was worn out from taking his DK's to the double-secret homeworld of the dreadlords to recover a McGuffin to fight the first ones?

[Seezer]

I feel like at this point if Sylvanas does end up dying, her fans will legitimately off themselves irl. The fanbase is that pathetic.

If you really believe that then you're pathetic. "hEy gUiZ oMeGaLuL sILvAnIs fAnBoIz gUnNa yeEt dEmSeLvEs"

[TheFirstOnes]

Yes, but Illidan is a hypocrite and an asshole. I like the character, I don't mean it is an insult. It's a fact in the context of his choices. The reason it works there (for me, anyway) as a course correction back to his WC3 self, and the reason I personally don't see it as a toothless redemption arc like some, is it's treated as a feature and not a bug.

Nobody absolves his shitty behavior and the two people closest to him say in no uncertain terms to...basically his last will and testament that they don't forgive him and he's still an asshole.

Illidan talked a big game about sacrifice at all costs, but he wasn't able to seal the deal for himself in the end, even though he sacrificed so many others, tons without their consent. That's what makes him an anti-hero/anti-villain rather than just a bland generic hero with an edgy aesthetic. If they kept the course with Xe'ra talking him up as a totally swell person, it would be character assassination in the opposite direction from TBC's bullshit.

Illidan WAS able to sacrifice in some contexts, like staying behind for Sargeras, taking the gift to use against the Legion, etc. but he was never willing to give up everything.

(Compare and contrast with..."this character's actions and agency never mattered because they were missing part of their soul." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)



That's because that is his character function. You're factually right. But the bland utilitarian purpose behind a character doesn't need to be the beginning and the end of how they're presented.

Think the RedLetterMedia character test. Describe Zovaal for me without referring to his job, how he looks, or his role in the story.

Okay, I got this!

Zovaal is dark, menacing, his voice is deep and cool, he's got a very evil vibe to him, he brings dread wherever he does, his influence is everywhere across the Warcraft Universe, he's got like...a very chill yet very much terrifying vibe to him, he's calculating...

Is that fine?

[Amaterasu65]

Watch us accept dailies from Sylvie in 9.2 :')

She'll lead us a la Illidan next patch for sure.

I guess she's up for a big guilt trip now that she has her soul back. I guess the book will focus around that.