Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[Nootz]

Because its required for legendaries. I like torghast a lot but when you tell me it's required for raiding I start not wanting to do it anymore.

If it was a mage tower type thing where hitting floor 100 and fighting through really tough floors or something crazy for cool transmog or mounts I would be in there every day on every class

[justandulas]

First of all, any proper rogue like game has randomized levels so no two runs are the same. Unlike torghast

Secondly, the rewards need to be organic and not forced (forced soul ash for example is bad, but mega rare mount or cosmetic is good)

Third, any activity the game forces you to do is a chore by nature. Torghast becomes choreghast because you’re forced into it.

Fourth, the rewards themselves need to be better and rarer. Give an incentive to run it for that 1/100000 mount or sword cosmetic. It doesn’t mean anything when everyone gets it

[Rageonit]

So the game was not testing me as a player, nor was it testing me to see how well I could play a certain class - no it was testing me on my ability to read a third party website.

It's your choice to go to a 3rd party website, and you probably do it cause you are the "path of least resistance" type of player. You can also learn them by wiping and observation. In case you didn't notice, that's how it's done by players who make the guides. If you can't do the same, there's a chance you're just not as good.

[Ethas]

Because it is ridiculously boring. I exhausted myself in about 10 runs. After that it feels like chore. Just like the whole Maw is.

[TheLucky1]

While 9.1 certainly made torghast better by raising the stakes and adding in more roguelike characteristics (even though some geezers/old farts will disagree because they can't take a senile piss whenever they want now without getting a worse score), the core problems are still there and would require massive development time to fix, that's on blizzard.

Most specs will always have pretty much the same gameplay experience due to there not being enough animapowers and depth/tree like systems behind them, it doesn't help that a ton of them are also just bad for what you need to succeed and uninteresting in altering gameplay drastically, you know, the stuff that makes roguelikes fun and replayable to the nth degree.

I liked torghast in the first 4-5 weeks of shadowlands and it didn't start to sting in the month after that, from there to now it was just the same chore to do trying to spend as little time as possible in there.

Still better than island expeditions and warfronts though because i could do both wings on my geared mage and hunter in <20 minutes and will likely be able to do that again in a few weeks.

[Tradu]

Largely because it's mandatory. Of course people can have legitimate reasons why they might like/dislike something, but nothing kills fun like being told you have to do it (you know...if you want any legendaries...)

This is a big part of it. Especially being told you have to do it every week or you're behind permanently. They've done really well with so many other systems that allow you to catch up later if you fall behind (conquest, renown, valor etc), but for some reason legendaries get nothing.

The actual gameplay is okay (not great, but it's WoW so that limits it a lot). There's just not enough powers that actually change how you play. Sure, you get big numbers or whatever, but very few powers actually change gameplay. So you do like 3 runs per spec before you've experienced everything. The difficulty primarily comes from unavoidable damage (auto attacks and spammed/uninterruptible casts), so it's quite limited in terms of the "crazy" things you can do. In the end it's just fighting a bunch of trash and then a few very, very simple bosses.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Personally I like all the changes they made to it. I finally have a reason to run it, and to run it thoroughly at that. The Box of Many Things gives it replayability and the layers are finally somewhat harder. I don't particularly agree on how the points are distributed at the end, but you can easily get 4/5 by taking your time and clearing everything, so unlocking the next layer should never be an issue.

I am afraid however that this will not be enough in the long run. I already have a ton of soul ash from the past months and the Box will eventually get maxed out.

[gushDH]

Because it is too easy and it just takes time to do. There is no challenge or something interesting to solve or anything. You just get in there and kill trash mobs until you are done. There are no special tactics or really anything to be excited, surprised, or happy to get or do. It is just a time waster and if there was not a useful reward no one would do it. Because it offers no challenge.

[Tradu]

Personally I like all the changes they made to it. I finally have a reason to run it, and to run it thoroughly at that. The Box of Many Things gives it replayability and the layers are finally somewhat harder. I don't particularly agree on how the points are distributed at the end, but you can easily get 4/5 by taking your time and clearing everything, so unlocking the next layer should never be an issue.

I am afraid however that this will not be enough in the long run. I already have a ton of soul ash from the past months and the Box will eventually get maxed out.

Time is currently being scored completely wrong. Going fast is not rewarded anywhere near enough (max points for speed is 50, and you inherently lose out on way more than that by going fast) and the par times are pretty slow. I got 5 stars on 5 out of 6 of my runs (the one I didn't I managed to get knocked off by the same mechanic 3 times in a row), always just taking my time clearing everything because clearing and playing safe is rewarded the most by far.

This was my first ever run:


Played Shadow, except for floor 4 where I played Holy because I accidentally killed the floor 3 broker before swapping back to Shadow after stacking up my intellect power in the other 2 specs. It's literally just a question of clearing everything, time is basically irrelevant unless you literally go afk.

[Ealyssa]

It's a roguelite mode that forces you to completion.

The whole design makes no sense. While it's not horrible to run, I really don't hate it. But its design still makes no freakin sense.

Roguelites are all about the run, failing and trying again. Torghast reward is all about killing last boss for you legendary crafting material. It's not compatible.

[Garymorilix]

It's not fun or 'roguelike' enough to warrant repeating it w/o being driven by mandatory currency. And the 9.1 changes hardly make more attractive.
It's a rough contrast to Legion tower challenges.

Can we stop this nostalgia driven rose tinted glasses argument with the Mage Tower?

The majority of the mage tower challenges were bullshit.
The tank challenge was bullshit.
The healer challenge was a chore.

It wasn't JUST time-gated (it wasn't up 100%) you also needed to have a currency to do attempts. You ran out? Too bad.
Imagine Blizz pulling this both with Torghast.

The only reason, literally the only reason you think the Mage Tower was better than Torghast is because it was done first.
Oh, and for vanity leggo weapon skins. Which did literally nothing for your gameplay.

[Rinaul]

What the title says. I main Guardian druid, which is a tanking spec. I find Torghast to be a lot of fun, due to the fact you can literally break the game. While doing my Endless Corridor runs, I reached a point where I had 85+ anima powers, 70% Versatility, 60% haste, 90% Mastery and 70% crit.

Torghast quite literally gives us the ability to BREAK THE GAME! I reached a boss with 6 million HP and downed it in 35 seconds. The amount of power my bear had at that point was batshit crazy.

9.1 made Torghast even better. I got some guildies (2 main DPSers from the raid team + a member's alt that he will reroll to in 9.1 as his main) so we can do Layer 9, when it was released. We spent THREE hours in Torghast and we didn't even realise how the time passed. We were all on discord, discussing, choosing Anima powers that had good synergy with what the rest of us had picked, and our 4th member who was on his alt was basicaly the group's "errand boy". As in, we'd enter a room, I would round up everything in it, mage and rogue mains would assist me in mowing them down and the hunter alt was running around opening chests, breaking jars, freeing souls and talking to quest NPC's. We really had a blast, it was good fun.

So I ask: Why do people hate Torghast? In Solo mode it is a very nice way to break the game and reach insane stats, in group mode in 9.1 it's actually engaging content, as long as voice coms are in the picture. It's quite literally an amalgamation of everything WoW has to offer - mob farming, resource gathering, a degree of exploration, bossfights and ability upgrades. In 1 activity. So why do people hate it so much?

Thank you for your time in reading thus far.

People hate it because it requires some effort depending on class /spec /skill /ilvl. Also because of course people feel it's obligated because of the ash. I personally kinda like it especially worth the new tower knowledge tree. Also dh so I just zip through it all /shrug

[Tradu]

It's a roguelite mode that forces you to completion.

The whole design makes no sense. While it's not horrible to run, I really don't hate it. But its design still makes no freakin sense.

Roguelites are all about the run, failing and trying again. Torghast reward is all about killing last boss for you legendary crafting material. It's not compatible.

Yeah, it goes completely against the idea of roguelike/lites that you want to go fast and as deep (as many floors/planets/whatever) as possible. Being capped and strongly encouraging you to fully clear everything doesn't really work with that.

[ek0zu]

i don't hate it, i don't like it, tbh i don't understand the logic behind it. It is a place where you gain cool powers just to farm some Soul Ash? I think they should have done better.

[Kandi]

its horrible. I cant stand Torghast and avoid it at all costs. It is no where near fun if thats what you like so be it but me I will stay out of there unless forced.

[Crimson Spears]

It's a roguelite mode that forces you to completion.

The whole design makes no sense. While it's not horrible to run, I really don't hate it. But its design still makes no freakin sense.

Roguelites are all about the run, failing and trying again. Torghast reward is all about killing last boss for you legendary crafting material. It's not compatible.

Another note is outside of mythic players wow players are allergic to failure. Any obstacle they can't immediately crush solo is seen as a unmovable object blocking them from their goals.

Giving this playerbase a "roguelite" experience was moronic.

[Malania]

What the title says. I main Guardian druid, which is a tanking spec. I find Torghast to be a lot of fun, due to the fact you can literally break the game. While doing my Endless Corridor runs, I reached a point where I had 85+ anima powers, 70% Versatility, 60% haste, 90% Mastery and 70% crit.

Torghast quite literally gives us the ability to BREAK THE GAME! I reached a boss with 6 million HP and downed it in 35 seconds. The amount of power my bear had at that point was batshit crazy.

9.1 made Torghast even better. I got some guildies (2 main DPSers from the raid team + a member's alt that he will reroll to in 9.1 as his main) so we can do Layer 9, when it was released. We spent THREE hours in Torghast and we didn't even realise how the time passed. We were all on discord, discussing, choosing Anima powers that had good synergy with what the rest of us had picked, and our 4th member who was on his alt was basicaly the group's "errand boy". As in, we'd enter a room, I would round up everything in it, mage and rogue mains would assist me in mowing them down and the hunter alt was running around opening chests, breaking jars, freeing souls and talking to quest NPC's. We really had a blast, it was good fun.

So I ask: Why do people hate Torghast? In Solo mode it is a very nice way to break the game and reach insane stats, in group mode in 9.1 it's actually engaging content, as long as voice coms are in the picture. It's quite literally an amalgamation of everything WoW has to offer - mob farming, resource gathering, a degree of exploration, bossfights and ability upgrades. In 1 activity. So why do people hate it so much?

Thank you for your time in reading thus far.

High HP bosses, do not a fun game make. The zone is repetitive and increasing your stats to game breaking levels doesn't without offering anything interesting to do with them was silly. Big numbers alone in a zone designed to inflate everything isn't fun. I didn't earn them. The bosses are easier than the brawlers bosses so it's a large number target dummy. The mage tower had mechanics and required ability to go with your numbers. Coupled with the the fact that the zone is made mandatory for multiple characters just to meet the basics for the current game design is a farce. You should not be required to do content you do not want to do. Ever. I'm basically paying them to work at that point. It had trash balancing allowing burst classes to lol through in 15m and others taking an hour or 2 because it couldn't be balanced sufficiently for everyone just made it the zone where fun goes to die.

[Venziir]

Because it isn't fun, nor rewarding.

[Kokolums]

Torghast is Diablo 3 rifts. Just like D3 rifts, there seems to be an extremely tiny group of people that love it to death. Everyone else hates it with a passion. I have to admit there were probably more D3 Twitch streamers dedicated to rift running than there are WoW players who are dedicated to Torghast running. So it seems to be even worse. Rifts single-handedly drove me from D3 they were so bad. I loathe Torghast in the same way. It kills my interest in playing WoW.

[froschhure]

Unrewarding, annoying, useless and time consuming and even if this ain't enough it was and is timegated

Now if you pref doing these activities yay for you