Flying really does make the world lose any sense of danger

[roahn the warlock]

Flying is only unlocked when you've already won the outdoor game. I don't want to have to progress through a game I've already beaten.

Well flying was something to achieve back then. For the average casual player affording flying was work. And then it was only, what? 60% speed? It was mostly meant as a soft-progression to get to the fancy areas. getting a netherdrake took foooooorever. Now you get 310% by the time you hit max lvl in retail. Two very different things.

[Jonnusthegreat]

I mean, there definitely is such a thing as "beating" WoW. Finish all main story content. AKA: Clear the raids as that is story content. Doesn't matter to me if you only finish it on the easiest difficulty.

"Completing" WoW is much harder to do, but also still possible. You can, in theory, obtain every single thing that is obtainable.

I mean, there definitely isn't such a thing as 'beating' WoW. It's literally an opinion. It's clear what your opinion is.

It is wrong to tell others that their opinions are wrong though. So, you are wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Your talking about 1 percent of 1 percent and comparing them to min wagers. It has been proven that if you do a trade like an electrician or plumber and compare it to your average college graduate then they end up being equal by the time they retire. The tradie doesn't have a huge college debt. A tradie starts earning straight away. A tradie makes decent money. A tradie is allowed to invest their money.

Try again buddy.

So, the hill you're going to die on is really going to be the "buying a flying mount is bad for farming gold" hill?

[Witchblade77]

I think even with a basic understanding of economics one can figure out that the person with epic flying will relatively quickly make that money back and from that point on, pull ahead.
Your calculation also naturally ignores that the person that does not even purchase flying will not be able to do even the entry raid as Karazhan requires flying, meaning if you actually intent to raid in TBC, the cost is 5200g, not 6200g.
But i'm sure the ability to clear T4 a few seconds faster because you have purchased some items off the AH will make up for that...right?

If you intent to make gold in TBC primarily via outdoor gathering, then you are just plain stupid not to invest the gold into epic flying first, unless you have no intention to farm more than 5k gold total during the enterity of TBC, which is a pretty tight budget if you want to buy craftable items as well.

And that puts aside the massive QoL boost that epic flying provides.

umm... UMM.. does it require flying or fastest flying? cause I remember playing with my slooooooow, but still flying mount for quite a while in BC originally and I was doing just fine. I could farm my netherwing rep. I could get to all those mote farming areas, etc. it was slow. but it got me where I needed to get.

[Kralljin]

umm... UMM.. does it require flying or fastest flying? cause I remember playing with my slooooooow, but still flying mount for quite a while in BC originally and I was doing just fine. I could farm my netherwing rep. I could get to all those mote farming areas, etc. it was slow. but it got me where I needed to get.

You need basic flying, however 6200g is the price of the full package, meaning regular flying + epic flying, if you want to raid Karazhan, you need to pay up at least 900g for regular flying.

I also want to point out that you couldn't farm Netherwing rep without epic flying, because the quest to actually go beyond Neutral with them requires epic flying.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blo...the_Netherwing

Furthermore, this isn't about "being able to get where you want", you farm a lot faster with epic flying, thus make more gold per hour.

[Witchblade77]

You need basic flying, however 6200g is the price of the full package, meaning regular flying + epic flying, if you want to raid Karazhan, you need to pay up at least 900g for regular flying.

I also want to point out that you couldn't farm Netherwing rep without epic flying, because the quest to actually go beyond Neutral with them requires epic flying.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blo...the_Netherwing

Furthermore, this isn't about "being able to get where you want", you farm a lot faster with epic flying, thus make more gold per hour.

huh... I could have sworn I didn't have to have it, but its been a hell of a long time, so I could be wrong there. I also primarily farmed it by going after eggs. in any case 900gold is a lot less then 6200g. and unless i remember incorrectly, Netherwing wasn't even a required rep, I just wanted a dragon mount and back then, that was the only way to get one. (and then Wrath came with its own cool looking dragon mounts some of which were easier to get, but I still ride my netherwing drakes on couple of characters even to this day)

I also honestly prefer farming certain things on the ground. going up and down was pretty unhelpful to me back in those days, vs staying in the ground and running from pack to pack of elementals and whatnot. I guess it might depend on what you are farming? stuff i farmed was easier to just say on the ground for the duration of the farming.

[munkeyinorbit]

I think even with a basic understanding of economics one can figure out that the person with epic flying will relatively quickly make that money back and from that point on, pull ahead.
Your calculation also naturally ignores that the person that does not even purchase flying will not be able to do even the entry raid as Karazhan requires flying, meaning if you actually intent to raid in TBC, the cost is 5200g, not 6200g.
But i'm sure the ability to clear T4 a few seconds faster because you have purchased some items off the AH will make up for that...right?

If you intent to make gold in TBC primarily via outdoor gathering, then you are just plain stupid not to invest the gold into epic flying first, unless you have no intention to farm more than 5k gold total during the enterity of TBC, which is a pretty tight budget if you want to buy craftable items as well.

And that puts aside the massive QoL boost that epic flying provides.

My bad, 50 hours less ahead. Still puts Gordon Groundie ahead as they have a head start converting the gold into gear, which is what it is all about. When you are inspected the don't check your flying mount. So buying an item or items for 5k is a huge advantage. It is 30 days work to get the same gear. Not only are you 30 days behind, you are spending 250 hours less in dungeons. Therefore I have proven that buying epic flying is for fools if you are looking to gear up.

If it's about gold then there are easier ways to make gold that don't even require any mounts, ground or flying.

As for QoL? That's subjective. If people are really against flying they wouldn't use it. Of course everyone in this thread wanting flying gone uses their flying mount for convenience. That makes them liars.

[Very rare pepe]

Flying only removes the danger of the world because blizzard can’t be bothered to make the skies dangerous. They also have plenty of tools now to make it so when you need to “storm the castle” you can’t just fly straight to the end goal but they don’t use those either.

Agreed, best answer I have read here IMO, flying can be made more interactive and dangerous too and that option isn't talked about.

[Kralljin]

huh... I could have sworn I didn't have to have it, but its been a hell of a long time, so I could be wrong there. I also primarily farmed it by going after eggs. in any case 900gold is a lot less then 6200g. and unless i remember incorrectly, Netherwing wasn't even a required rep, I just wanted a dragon mount and back then, that was the only way to get one. (and then Wrath came with its own cool looking dragon mounts some of which were easier to get, but I still ride my netherwing drakes on couple of characters even to this day)

I also honestly prefer farming certain things on the ground. going up and down was pretty unhelpful to me back in those days, vs staying in the ground and running from pack to pack of elementals and whatnot. I guess it might depend on what you are farming? stuff i farmed was easier to just say on the ground for the duration of the farming.

1.Netherwing wasn't required for anything but the Nether Dragon mounts
2.I don't know if you could loot those eggs without the pre quests, but you couldn't turn them in because the entire camp was hostile to you.

No epic flying, no disguise and thus no Netherwing rep.

Therefore I have proven that buying epic flying is for fools if you are looking to gear up.

I never claimed it's the most efficient way to gear up, i claimed that it's more efficiently when your primary gold source is gathering in the outdoor world.
Which i've also laid out previously.

If it's about gold then there are easier ways to make gold that don't even require any mounts, ground or flying.

I think there quite a lot of people out there that have Herbalism and Mining on a single character, i think they did that for a reason.

Again, this isn't about what is the most efficient way to make gold in general, some people cannot be arsed to play the AH or they don't want to grind elementals endlessly (especially on a PvP server), some people want to fly their circles in Nagrand, Netherstorm or any zone and just farm some resources and sell them on the AH.
Then frankly epic flying is a massive boost to their gold/hour ratio, which will quickly pay itself off when you farm consistently.

This is just you moving the goalpost to a point that i've never made, for a reason that i frankly do not understand except for you failing on reading comprehension and basic economics.

As for QoL? That's subjective.

You want to tell that the difference between 60% speed and 280% is "subjective"?
Or even worse, pretend that the ability to manipulate the Z-Axis of your character is by its very nature, pretty damn useful?

[oldgeezer]

This is not true for both classic and retail.

From reaction of the no-fly crowd here it would seem to be the case.

[Ehrenpanzer]

TBC is my favorite WoW expansion by far but I'm definitely one of those people that now contend flying is one of the worst things ever added o the game.

I get why people like it and enjoy it but, it also really destroys the feel of the world.

I'm now in Shadowmoon Valley, all these big scary fortresses with hundreds of elite guards and barricades and towers.... LOL jk just fly directly over them none of the monsters seem to notice or care.

Land in the middle of their fortress, kill the boss, fly out.

What's the point of building a big outdoor fortress with thousands of elite guards if anybody can just zip in? Flying really does destroy the "feel" of the world. It's just way too safe and way too convenient and way too solitary.

I really think they could have done a better job implementing a much more limited flying system, one that gives you some of the pros without all the cons.

Then dont use a flying mount... problem solved. See how easy that is and you dont have to come here and create thread #6879490398676939576769403857693 whining about how flying "ruined the world" or "ruins your immersion"

[javierdsv]

This is just another "I don't like flying because... " thread.
It's been infinitely discussed.

Flying is here to stay because a big chunk (probably the majority) of people like it. A few expansions back there were evidence they didn't want to develop with flying in mind, and it backfired.

There's no point on keeping this endless, fruitless discussion IMO.

[BetrayedOf52]

you're right

[Shaetha]

There is no right or wrong.

Wrong is wanting options taken away because you don't like them. That is just straight up looking at life wrong.

[kail]

Except the ground mount guy is 31 hours ahead because they didn't spend 6200g on flying. While Mr Epic Flying is farming, Gordon Groundie is buying gear off the AH. Looks like Gordon Groundie is winning.

5200g ahead. You need flying to be attuned to kara and can only bypass that first skill cost if you're a druid. That 5200g is pretty much 1 BiS piece of crafted gear. Give me 280% speed any day vs that.

[Zaqwert]

All this anti-flying nonsense is all revisionist garbage.

More like people have actually had time to see the result of it and digest the full consequences.

Yes I was super hyped about flying in original TBC, everyone was, it was a huge selling point and arguably the thing people were most excited about, including me. I never thought of it in a bad way until the return to vanilla classic and being forced to actually be on the ground full time again. Getting back in the air is extremely jarring in terms of feel.

Ironic that one of the biggest selling points of classic was traveling Azeroth on "your own two feet", talk about coming full circle.

I know flying isn't going away and I'm not lobbying for it. Once you give a kid candy it's hard to take it back without them pitching a fit. Just look at all the hysterical angry responses of people afraid that even discussing things.

[mauserr]

I get what you're saying, but if you do most of the quests in every zone you ding 70 before you ever set foot in Netherstorm or Shadowmoon Valley.

Maybe instead of just dinging 70 they could have also required you beat a few key quest lines in both of those zones to unlock it first. After you've "completed" all the zon

It's just kinda sad that Shadowmoon Valley is built as this extremely intimidating and hostile zone but flying trivializes all of it.

Then don't fly in it.
Problem literally solved.
You can't argue with that whatsoever.
It's a fact.
You don't argue with facts.

[wide]

You don't argue with facts.

That's what flat-earth people say too.

[mauserr]

That's what flat-earth people say too.

But they are actually wrong and there is lots and lots and lots of evidence to prove them wrong. Flat earthers are actually stupid.

As far as my "fix for flying" is concerned - I am not factually wrong - if he doesn't like flying, he doesn't have to fly. He can very well traverse Outland on a ground mount and use flight paths when absolutely necessary. He is his own demise - he doesn't want to fly, but he does anyway because it's faster and just better

He could've choosen not to fly, but he didn't. End of thread

[ellieg]

But they are actually wrong and there is lots and lots and lots of evidence to prove them wrong. Flat earthers are actually stupid.

As far as my "fix for flying" is concerned - I am not factually wrong - if he doesn't like flying, he doesn't have to fly. He can very well traverse Outland on a ground mount and use flight paths when absolutely necessary. He is his own demise - he doesn't want to fly, but he does anyway because it's faster and just better

He could've choosen not to fly, but he didn't. End of thread

Thats not an option. Want to herb or mine to make money in the world? Can't just "not fly" cause all the flyers will take most of the nodes.

Want to pvp like u did on azeroth? Too bad, ppl can fly away or fly in.

I personally like flying but saying "lol just dont fly bro. Facts. End of discussion." Makes you look dumb lol

[Blackmist]

I honestly think flying would be a lot better if there was some actual gameplay in it.

Mounts having different stats, stamina to fly, gliding, thermals, air combat to force your opponent to land. Not just what is basically the crappy swimming mechanic but faster.