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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    .2% is nothing, 50% of a year's earnings would not ruin the company, what's the argument against any of the executives going to jail? If any regular person commits fraud against the government they face jail time.
    Do you really think shareholders are happy? No one likes to loose money, even if it is "not that much".
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Their margin is between 1-2 percent taking half of their profit is not outrageous considering the act. What's your excuse for not throwing the executives who committed fraud in jail? Why is it okay for them to commit fraud on such a scale and getting away Scott free?
    They're hardly getting away scott free? They're getting the same type of fines Google and Facebook are getting. What do you want? To close the business as punishment? The goal is not to destroy them, the goal is to make them follow rules. And we'll start throwing CEOs in jail when you start booking Zuckerberg. Go ahead, you start.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    They're hardly getting away scott free? They're getting the same type of fines Google and Facebook are getting. What do you want? To close the business as punishment? The goal is not to destroy them, the goal is to make them follow rules. And we'll start throwing CEOs in jail when you start booking Zuckerberg. Go ahead, you start.
    It's the company's money not theirs, if they don't have a succession plan they don't deserve to be in business. The united state broken and unfair judicial system is not something to aspire to. If that's the type of too rich to jail system you want then I guess everything is fine.

    My point is if this was a small business the ceo would be headed to jail no one would be giving them a slap on the wrist.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    It's the company's money not theirs, if they don't have a succession plan they don't deserve to be in business. The united state broken and unfair judicial system is not something to aspire to. If that's the type of too rich to jail system you want then I guess everything is fine.

    My point is if this was a small business the ceo would be headed to jail no one would be giving them a slap on the wrist.
    Well of course but they’re big business. Hey bmw prospered because of Jewish slavery durring the Holocaust but it would be crazy to punish them.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    It's the company's money not theirs, if they don't have a succession plan they don't deserve to be in business. The united state broken and unfair judicial system is not something to aspire to. If that's the type of too rich to jail system you want then I guess everything is fine.

    My point is if this was a small business the ceo would be headed to jail no one would be giving them a slap on the wrist.
    And then thousands of people would be out of job. Is that what you want ?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    And then thousands of people would be out of job. Is that what you want ?
    You do know that executives have subordinates who can take over right? So you are saying doing crimes as an executive is fine by you because something something jobs.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    You do know that executives have subordinates who can take over right? So you are saying doing crimes as an executive is fine by you because something something jobs.
    You were asking earlier for extremely huge fine.

    And executives do go to prison but not for that kind of criminal offense. In that case, it was the company that was being being sued, not the executives.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    You were asking earlier for extremely huge fine.

    And executives do go to prison but not for that kind of criminal offense. In that case, it was the company that was being being sued, not the executives.
    Half of their yearly profit and the executives who decided to commit a crime to go to jail. What part of that do you find wrong? You know humans made choices not a non living corporate entity right?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    You do know that executives have subordinates who can take over right? So you are saying doing crimes as an executive is fine by you because something something jobs.
    The issue here, to make this clear, is not price-fixing. The only thing that happened is that these companies talked about tank sizes for the catalysator agent. And apparently, according to VW, those talks never led to any actual design implementations. These companies got punished merely for talking to each other.

    Think about what you're asking for here. You want the CEO of the biggest automaker on the planet (they are constantly fighting with Toyota over the title, but I think currently they are it) for talking to a competitor.

    This is Pandorra's box. Especially since many of these automakers work together to improve things for the consumer. Especially in the fields of car safety.

    I think you are overreacting and quite possibly still out to late-punish VW for Dieselgate. A scandal for which people did go to jail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Half of their yearly profit and the executives who decided to commit a crime to go to jail. What part of that do you find wrong? You know humans made choices not a non living corporate entity right?
    Which crime?
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Half of their yearly profit and the executives who decided to commit a crime to go to jail. What part of that do you find wrong? You know humans made choices not a non living corporate entity right?
    Just that you are too extreme.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The issue here, to make this clear, is not price-fixing. The only thing that happened is that these companies talked about tank sizes for the catalysator agent. And apparently, according to VW, those talks never led to any actual design implementations. These companies got punished merely for talking to each other.

    Think about what you're asking for here. You want the CEO of the biggest automaker on the planet (they are constantly fighting with Toyota over the title, but I think currently they are it) for talking to a competitor.

    This is Pandorra's box. Especially since many of these automakers work together to improve things for the consumer. Especially in the fields of car safety.

    I think you are overreacting and quite possibly still out to late-punish VW for Dieselgate. A scandal for which people did go to jail.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Which crime?
    Conspiracy to break the rules is not the same as working for consumers. You just argued that being a CEO means the law shouldn't apply to you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Just that you are too extreme.
    We can disagree on numbers I am simply saying treat them like everyone else.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Conspiracy to break the rules is not the same as working for consumers. You just argued that being a CEO means the law shouldn't apply to you.
    What conspiracy? No changes got implemented. And you're talking about criminal charges. Those typically require some sort of intent. Not having the knowledge of what is going on automatically removes intent from the equation.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    What conspiracy? No changes got implemented. And you're talking about criminal charges. Those typically require some sort of intent. Not having the knowledge of what is going on automatically removes intent from the equation.
    You are right those poor executives had no intent or knowledge in the whole debacle they are innocent by the way I have this bridge for sale you seem to be type of person who would buy it.

    I am sorry I couldn't help it you just walked into that one on a serious note though since you look to the American justice system for guidance this is fine.
    Last edited by Draco-Onis; 2021-07-09 at 09:44 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by draco-onis View Post
    you are right those poor executives had no intent or knowledge in the whole debacle they are innocent by the way i have this bridge for sale you seem to be type of person who would buy it.

    I am sorry i couldn't help it you just walked into that one on a serious note though since you look to the american justice system for guidance this is fine.
    They just talked! Nothing was implemented! Do you understand these words? Blink twice if yes!

    Edit: Amazing, I just found out that this forum has an actual caps lock filter. That's pretty fucking funny.

    Also edit: Without any design changes happening due to these talks, there is no criminal action. The only intent you have for your ficticious criminal fraud charge is... intent to talk. That's not enough. If I ask you if you could steal a car for me and you say "Sure, I could do it... I know how to break into a car." and then I go "Fine, good to know!" that's not you nor I colluding in Grand Theft Auto. That's us having probably the most useless conversation in the history of crime...

    Also, also edit: Putting the CEO in jail wouldn't change anything. Companies like Volkswagen are family-run businesses. You need to understand that your American turbo capitalist metrics do not work in Germany.
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-07-09 at 11:38 PM.
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  15. #35
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    In an industry where profit margins are in the sub 1 percentile, .2% is meaningful. Not dramatic, but it's not something to be completely ignored.
    Not sure why y'all are claiming this besides as a face saving measure.

    VW and BMW already made the calculus here, and that is their gain by breaching the regulation exceeded the potential losses due to fines. If the fine were actually threatening to a company's bottom line then it would be more than a sufficient deterrent. See: Google and Microsoft bending the knee regarding GDPR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    And then thousands of people would be out of job. Is that what you want ?
    Better question is why you think it's okay for rich people to get away with breaking the law as long as they have employees to hide behind.

    BMW doesn't create the demand for its products. If it goes belly up, another company will take its place, which is how it should work in instances where business practice results in either insolvency or worse, lawbreaking - if it's too big to fail, it's too big to exist.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-07-09 at 11:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Well Daimler is part of the same brand as Mercedes, all part of the VW and Audi auto group. Realistically they are a much bigger corporation than any of the other automotive manufacturers just because of all the brands encompassed into their structure. Some of the American car companies have gotten into joint ventures in recent years, like the 10 speed automatic found in new Ford vehicles is also in GM's lineup. But you'll never see brands merge like the VW AG has.
    Daimler AG and VW AG are not one in the same, what the hell are you talking about?
    Last edited by Bryntrollian; 2021-07-09 at 11:42 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    Daimler AG and VW AG are not one in the same, what the hell are you talking about?
    LOL that's hilarious. I didn't even see that. Someone should clearly not take part in this discussion if they don't know the companies on the most basic level.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Also, also edit: Putting the CEO in jail wouldn't change anything. Companies like Volkswagen are family-run businesses. You need to understand that your American turbo capitalist metrics do not work in Germany.
    I am not sure what are talking about how you treat CEOs and think of them is very American, I applaud your veneration of our judicial system and treatment of corporate overlords.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    They just talked! Nothing was implemented!
    Nothing was implemented because Daimler ratted everybody out before they had a chance to implement it. There is such a thing as conspiracy to commit a crime, even if the crime itself didn't end up taking place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Also edit: Without any design changes happening due to these talks, there is no criminal action. The only intent you have for your ficticious criminal fraud charge is... intent to talk. That's not enough. If I ask you if you could steal a car for me and you say "Sure, I could do it... I know how to break into a car." and then I go "Fine, good to know!" that's not you nor I colluding in Grand Theft Auto.
    Yes, I'm sure that was the entire extent of their discussions/collusion


    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Also, also edit: Putting the CEO in jail wouldn't change anything. Companies like Volkswagen are family-run businesses. You need to understand that your American turbo capitalist metrics do not work in Germany.
    No idea what you're on about here, but putting the lead people who are responsible in jail would most certainly make things like this less likely to happen in the future.
    “Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.” -- Donald J. Trump, 2013

    "I don't take responsibility at all."
    -- Donald J. Trump, 2020

  20. #40
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    When u was younger I couldn't tell the difference between VW and BMW. Makes sense.

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