Why do people hate Torghast so much?

[Crimson Spears]

Certainly a YOU problem. A regular attempt takes 15ish minutes. Even had a L9 run with 257 points in 12min.. Not that hard. And no, not absolutely overgeared, just easy to get 217 gear.

OT: I like the new Torghast more. Had my first Adavault run today and man, it was fun as hell (just didn't get anything except a transmogg for 1000 Phantasma). Starting Layer 10 it even gets potentially harder with below-average gear! I want to go into L11 next week to test out the limits.

Kind of depends on class. Some classes like hunter rarely get any damage animas beyond 3% to stats and just become tankier and better at kiting. It isn't harder but it takes forever.

[Bloodyleech]

I always did layer 8, but it was still always 4 floors of creatures + the boss per wing, so it was still at least a little over an hour per alt.

Then you are quite bad OR undergeared, both can be possible. All my alts went through L8 in below 25 minutes (while this time was the highest with least gear), ranging from 180 up to 210ish. Right now you get a full free set of 200 gear, upgradeable to atleast 220.

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Kind of depends on class. Some classes like hunter rarely get any damage animas beyond 3% to stats and just become tankier and better at kiting. It isn't harder but it takes forever.

WeirdChamp. I do those runs with BM currently and get plenty of dmg increases. Like Kill Command, Dmg increased while enemies are marked / stand inside Wild Mark, Kill Shot oneshots, flat increase via dropping traps.. Tell me how I shouldn't be doing runs in 12 minutes, if hunter doesn't get good Powers. If you go in there as MM.. hey, well, that's on you playing the worse solo spec.

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21 Minutes is still way faster than the usual suspect. It's not rare for people to take 1 hour - it's even more common than 30 min or less runs. Most people pull single enemies, kill them slowly, never use their cds...

[Queendom]

Certainly a YOU problem. A regular attempt takes 15ish minutes. Even had a L9 run with 257 points in 12min.. Not that hard. And no, not absolutely overgeared, just easy to get 217 gear.

It took more than an hour for top WOW streamers to clear floor 8 (or whatever the last floor is) when it was just released.
If you're spending 15 mins on it 9 months after release, then yeah, that's where my 1st point applies.
"15ish minutes" is still thrice as much as one MT run takes.

[Bloodyleech]

It took more than an hour for top WOW streamers to clear floor 8 (or whatever the last floor is) when it was just released.
If you're spending 15 mins on it 9 months after release, then yeah, that's where my 1st point applies.
"15ish minutes" is still thrice as much as one MT run takes.

MT was mostly just one enemy/encounter. When MT released, it took most specs many many hours/attempts to beat it. 12 attempts per hour (if surviving 5 minutes), means 1 hour per 12 attempts. 100-200 attempts weren't rare when it released freshly. So MT took more time when it released than Torghast, okay, thanks for taking MT into it. Your "it just took 5 minutes" example takes a "win" into account, which is simply not the case first try.
When Antorus released, it went into an absolute faceroll - everyone was able to clear it in just some tries.

Even if those people were "top streamers", it won't mean they are good. My very longest L8 run at release (say, pre-nerf) was 50 ish minutes while undergeared. Am I a top player now? No, I don't think so - but neither were those people you wan't to "quote".
Secondly, we aren't in the "new" catergory more since half a year. If it still takes someone more than 30 minutes to beat L8, they are bad, or have 130-150 ilvl and have to play a bit more carefully.
Thirdly, no one talkes about the old Torghast here.

You say Torghast doesn't have rewards.. I get soul ash/cinders once per wing each week + cosmetics/pets. In Adamant Vault, I even have a chance to get a conduit-upgrader. That's not "no rewards". And all it takes are (including ada) 15-20 minutes. That's more stuff than via MT, which only gave cosmetics and no character strength.

[Crimson Spears]

Then you are quite bad OR undergeared, both can be possible. All my alts went through L8 in below 25 minutes (while this time was the highest with least gear), ranging from 180 up to 210ish. Right now you get a full free set of 200 gear, upgradeable to atleast 220.

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WeirdChamp. I do those runs with BM currently and get plenty of dmg increases. Like Kill Command, Dmg increased while enemies are marked / stand inside Wild Mark, Kill Shot oneshots, flat increase via dropping traps.. Tell me how I shouldn't be doing runs in 12 minutes, if hunter doesn't get good Powers. If you go in there as MM.. hey, well, that's on you playing the worse solo spec.

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21 Minutes is still way faster than the usual suspect. It's not rare for people to take 1 hour - it's even more common than 30 min or less runs. Most people pull single enemies, kill them slowly, never use their cds...

I mean your cherry picking the epic powers you rarely see beyond kill command and killshot... your also a nf hunter and by now you shouldn't be. I mean if you enjoy killing tanker trash single target without any abilities over and over that is fine but don't act shocked that the rest of the player base sees it as a mindless dull boring chore.

[Bloodyleech]

I mean your cherry picking the epic powers you rarely see beyond kill command and killshot... your also a nf hunter and by now you shouldn't be. I mean if you enjoy killing tanker trash single target without any abilities over and over that is fine but don't act shocked that the rest of the player base sees it as a mindless dull boring chore.

I don't cherry pick epics (all I linked are common or rare, the kill shot one is the +100%, not the useless chance to oneshot), as those are stupidly bad as hunter. You don't take those. Don't like that you got called out for calling outright lies?
Ofc I can be NF hunter, why shouldn't I? Because of a small dps difference? I won't change right now, as I still overdps other hunters who play fotm easily. So why exactly should I care right now? Technically I shouldn't even be bm (or hunter at all), but I still play bm. SHOCKING!
If you enjoy going slow and don't deal with anything, that's on you.
If you go fast, you deal with mechanics, that's just how it works with limited aoe and the time you take while pulling (effectively unlocking the trashs abilities, as those are timed).

[muto]

Then you are quite bad OR undergeared, both can be possible. All my alts went through L8 in below 25 minutes (while this time was the highest with least gear), ranging from 180 up to 210ish. Right now you get a full free set of 200 gear, upgradeable to atleast 220.

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WeirdChamp. I do those runs with BM currently and get plenty of dmg increases. Like Kill Command, Dmg increased while enemies are marked / stand inside Wild Mark, Kill Shot oneshots, flat increase via dropping traps.. Tell me how I shouldn't be doing runs in 12 minutes, if hunter doesn't get good Powers. If you go in there as MM.. hey, well, that's on you playing the worse solo spec.

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21 Minutes is still way faster than the usual suspect. It's not rare for people to take 1 hour - it's even more common than 30 min or less runs. Most people pull single enemies, kill them slowly, never use their cds...

40 minutes or an hour per alt. Same difference. You save maybe an hour or two if you have a bunch of alts. And yeah some characters were slower than others like any caster versus melee.

[Bloodyleech]

40 minutes or an hour per alt. Same difference. You save maybe an hour or two if you have a bunch of alts.

Most likely 30 minutes if you get just a bit of free 200 gear. 30 minutes per week - hey, that's so bad!
If you play multiple characters AND want all of them to have the highest legendary, instead of just R1, that's your own fault/problem.

[Crimson Spears]

I don't cherry pick epics (all I linked are common or rare, the kill shot one is the +100%, not the useless chance to oneshot), as those are stupidly bad as hunter. You don't take those. Don't like that you got called out for calling outright lies?
Ofc I can be NF hunter, why shouldn't I? Because of a small dps difference? I won't change right now, as I still overdps other hunters who play fotm easily. So why exactly should I care right now? Technically I shouldn't even be bm (or hunter at all), but I still play bm. SHOCKING!
If you enjoy going slow and don't deal with anything, that's on you.
If you go fast, you deal with mechanics, that's just how it works with limited aoe and the time you take while pulling (effectively unlocking the trashs abilities, as those are timed).

Looking at my recent clear I got about 3mins a floor give or take for about 15mins total.

That is still 14.50s longer then I enjoy torghast. I kind of enjoy seeing the layout for the first few seconds when I think to myself all the interesting things they could of filled the zone with besides chores.

[Trumpcat]

I like it more after the changes.

[muto]

Most likely 30 minutes if you get just a bit of free 200 gear. 30 minutes per week - hey, that's so bad!
If you play multiple characters AND want all of them to have the highest legendary, instead of just R1, that's your own fault/problem.

Yeah it is bad considering that’s not the only system in Shadowlands you have to throw time at per character. It all adds up. You also have the Renown System. The Conduit System. The Weekly Vault System. Then there’s some optional systems like The Anima Power System, and the Mission Table System. World of Warcraft: Systemlands!

[Usernameforforums]

It was supposed to be a roguelike but its more of a solo dungeon with extra goodies. Roguelikes are supposed to continue for a while, increasing in difficulty the more time passes or floors you clear while you become a god of destruction until you fall.


Really it shouldn’t be in WoW. It be fine if it was a side thing to do but its required to run every week and thats why i believe people hate torghast.

[Bloodyleech]

Yeah it is bad considering that’s not the only system in Shadowlands you have to throw time at per character. It all adds up. You have also have the Renown system. The Conduit System. The Weekly Vault System. Then there’s some optional systems like The Anima Power system, and the Mission Table System.

Soo, per character basis:
10 min Korthia dailies per day
optional: daily emissary (stackable 3 times sometimes) 10-25 minutes
..
Torghast twice a week, 15-20 minutes each
1000 anima weekly (passiv) for 1 renown
20 souls for 500 anima (not needed anymore), 5-10 minutes weekly
old worldboss for 250 anima (not required) 2 minutes weekly
new worldboss for 500 anima and gear (required) ~5 minutes weekly
Korthia weekly quest (passiv)
Maw invasions biweekly, 15 minutes each
..
M+/Raiding - you either do it or you don't, different timings, obviously

All in all, I HAVE TO do content for a total of up to 2.5 hours in a whole week(!!) to be on par with others. Shit man, that's absolutely hard to manage.
Plus additional time for M+ or raiding, that is obviously either stuff you do, or you don't do.
If you want to be on par with other people with multiple classes, it's on you. Every mmo takes more time with each additional character. You can be happy that we aren't in Legion or BFA anymore where you had to farm stuff all day.

[Aydinx2]

Soo, per character basis:
10 min Korthia dailies per day
optional: daily emissary (stackable 3 times sometimes) 10-25 minutes
..
Torghast twice a week, 15-20 minutes each
1000 anima weekly (passiv) for 1 renown
20 souls for 500 anima (not needed anymore), 5-10 minutes weekly
old worldboss for 250 anima (not required) 2 minutes weekly
new worldboss for 500 anima and gear (required) ~5 minutes weekly
Korthia weekly quest (passiv)
Maw invasions biweekly, 15 minutes each
..
M+/Raiding - you either do it or you don't, different timings, obviously

These times are so off it's almost comedic. Not to mention you're ignoring travel times which, while pretty short, adds up.

[Bloodyleech]

These times are so off it's almost comedic. Not to mention you're ignoring travel times which, while pretty short, adds up.

Nope, they are not off. If it takes you longer, you don't play efficiently - those are exactly the times it takes me with my 3 characters that unlocked korthia. Care to tell times you deem to be true?
Traveling doesn't take that much time if you don't slog around. Plus, I don't see traveltime as wasted time while watching videos, or doing other RL stuff while traveling, which is why this is a non-issue for me personally.

[Noctiphobia]

There are no difficulty levels. Obviously layers are not difficulty levels, since most people are expected to just finish the highest layer.
The only difficulty is just numbers - the mobs and even bosses barely have any mechanics. Almost every fight is just tank and spank, with a handful of mobs having a single skill you have to move away from.
The scoring system makes the whole thing even less fun, since in order to have a lot of points, you have to meticulously clear everything and do blatantly unfun things such as keeping track of powers to make sure you don't ever pick a duplicate or just skipping all epic powers. The part about meticulously clearing everything is especially sad when playing a rogue, since before that, you could at least actually feel like you're sneaking around and picking your fights.

[Bloodyleech]

There are no difficulty levels. Obviously layers are not difficulty levels, since most people are expected to just finish the highest layer.
The only difficulty is just numbers - the mobs and even bosses barely have any mechanics. Almost every fight is just tank and spank, with a handful of mobs having a single skill you have to move away from.
The scoring system makes the whole thing even less fun, since in order to have a lot of points, you have to meticulously clear everything and do blatantly unfun things such as keeping track of powers to make sure you don't ever pick a duplicate or just skipping all epic powers. The part about meticulously clearing everything is especially sad when playing a rogue, since before that, you could at least actually feel like you're sneaking around and picking your fights.

I see where you are coming from.
I for myself have no problems with the scoring in there though - I pick epics whenever I like and I pick duplicates, I simply run through this place while clearing everything fast and end up with 220+ (highest 257, while still taking dupes/epics) points.

[Glorious Leader]

for some people its simple the fact that torghast means they can't simple just log for raid. Its incredible dumb I know but thats what it is

[Milfshaked]

1. It is boring.

2. It is mandatory.

3. You have to repeat it weekly/daily or similar

If a content only has 2 of these, while not good, you can deal with it. If a content has all 3, it is dogshit.

[GMZohar1]

It's a mandatory check-list. Players don't like that. When you log into retail the first thing is "what do I HAVE to do". If you were to log into Classic or BC the first thing is "what do I WANT to do". Huge difference.