Maybe the problem are the writers

[Overlordd]

I stumbled upon this interview from Christie Golden upon characters like Garrosh and Jaina. It perfectly shows on what the writers think is so out of touch with the portrayal ingame.

Full interview: https://www.engadget.com/2012-08-21-...ie-golden.html

I think Garrosh has, at his core, a weak personality. He was very hostile about his father and ashamed of his father, and it took Thrall to say, "Hey, look, you know your dad did some pretty amazing things despite everything." He had to get that validation externally. He also had to prove himself in battle externally. And now he is surrounding himself with some very bad and dangerous advisors, externally.

Because I think that at the core, he doesn't really know. He wants to do well. He wants to preserve the orcs and their pride and their history. But I think he is actually a rather malleable person whose opinions can change. He doesn't have a strong core.

Apparently Garrosh has a weak core, and his opinions change on the moment. He is not headstrong and stubborn. He is very weak and influenceable.

Where as Jaina:

I think the main difference -- Jaina has a very strong core. And when adversity and disaster and personal torment rip her down to nothing but that core, that core is still intact. It's hurt, but it's intact. And Garrosh doesn't really have a strong core. So what he believes kind of changes depending on what the situation is and who's talking. And I think that does not a good strong leader make.

Yes, as you see, Jaina has a very strong core. She does not change moods or opinion as often.

This was an interview during MoP.
This was during a time where Jaina had to be stopped from flooding Orgrimmar, where she murdered innocent Blood Elves in Dalaran.
This was "stable Jaina" that ruined peace talks between the Alliance and the Blood Elves.

And yeah, at that time we didn't know how headstrong Garrosh was going to be. But he doesn't seem very weak considering his last cinematic.

This perfectly portrays how out of touch some writers are. How does this even happen? Just how?
Maybe Blizzard needs to come to face with how delusional the writers are with the portrayal of characters presented ingame.

This is so fucking bad.

[Ealyssa]

Apparently Garrosh has a weak core

That's factually correct. Garrosh is a weakling with daddy issues at its core.
He is the sad bully who is angry at the world because he feels weak.

Even after eating the garbage rest of an old god and ending in a form his own father would have spit on :


He kept his stupid "DiDuN NoFfIn wR0Ng" pathetic line.

Owning your mistake is what makes someone strong. Doubling down on idiot just makes you a fool.

You may not like it, but that's how he is and was written. Sure we can debate the quality of the story telling, but it's still the actual canon story.
It's ok to not like things. But don't be a Garrosh, don't get mad at everything you don't like...

[Super Dickmann]

Considering Garrosh stuck to his guns at all times and Jaina has flip-flopped twice per expansion up until finally settling on reverting to her WC3 characterization for no adequate reason in BFA I think we can make an informed decision on who's convictions were stronger.

[Overlordd]

That's factually correct. Garrosh is a weakling with daddy issues at its core.
He is the sad bully who is angry at the world because he feels weak.

Even after eating the garbage rest of an old god and ending in a form his own father would have spit on :


He kept his stupid "DiDuN NoFfIn wR0Ng" pathetic line.

Owning your mistake is what makes someone strong. Doubling down on idiot just makes you a fool.

You may not like it, but that's how he is and was written. Sure we can debate the quality of the story telling, but it's still the actual canon story.
It's ok to not like things. But don't be a Garrosh, don't get mad at everything you don't like...

Sorry but this post is a cope. Garrosh was winning the war and if Vol'jin didn't backstab Garrosh the Alliance would've gotten annihilated. Garrosh even won against the Burning Legion and smashed Mannoroth while capturing Gul'dan. (That we the players did release )

But on top of that, Garrosh didn't have anime powers like Varian. All he got was his own strength and hus willpower. He controlled an Old God. A feat not done by any character.

Garrosh was a formidable foe and a headstrong leader.

[Rexosaurus]

Well, I totally believe that this thread was made with zero biases and only good intentions.

[Saltysquidoon]

Sorry but this post is a cope. Garrosh was winning the war and if Vol'jin didn't backstab Garrosh the Alliance would've gotten annihilated. Garrosh even won against the Burning Legion and smashed Mannoroth while capturing Gul'dan. (That we the players did release

Garrosh was 'winning' the same way Slyvanas was 'winning' despite losing both warfronts and the majority of the horde and getting her capital sieged, I.e the only way blizzard can write tension into a warstory is if the main villain is somehow succeeding off-screen despite never achieving anything and apparently having infinite resources. Also, lel at killing manneroth's body being 'defeating the legion' especially given the events of wod.

That said I agree Garrosh had strong convictions, he was a tool but he stuck to his guns into another dimension, through time and after death.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

So much legitimate wrong with the OP and this post, but I'm going to pick out one due to the overall bias you have to this topic:

But on top of that, Garrosh didn't have anime powers like Varian. All he got was his own strength and hus willpower. He controlled an Old God. A feat not done by any character.

Garrosh never controlled an Old God. Y'Shaarj had been long dead up to that point. He utilized the power coming from the heart. It was a power-up. No controlling.


So to say that Garrosh was strong despite "anime powers" and then proceed to just make up a reason why is... wrong.

[Varodoc]

Sorry but this post is a cope. Garrosh was winning the war and if Vol'jin didn't backstab Garrosh the Alliance would've gotten annihilated. Garrosh even won against the Burning Legion and smashed Mannoroth while capturing Gul'dan. (That we the players did release )

But on top of that, Garrosh didn't have anime powers like Varian. All he got was his own strength and hus willpower. He controlled an Old God. A feat not done by any character.

Garrosh was a formidable foe and a headstrong leader.

This is false. Alleria Windrunner controlled not one but two Void Demi-Gods, one of which was a Void Naaru, the Naaru being the Light counterpart of the Old Gods.

And Garrosh didn't control an Old God, he controlled the feeble remnant of an Old God.

[Overlordd]

Well, I totally believe that this thread was made with zero biases and only good intentions.

If you can not see how out of touch the writers are after Jaina flip flopped mood over several expansion, while the person that writes her says she is headstrong and has a STRONG CORE, after all the damage she has done, then I'm sorry.

Richard A. Knaak got shit on for his powertrips with his own character. Danuser gets shit on for having a boner for Sylvanas. Christie Golden keeps latching onto Jaina Proudmoore being a strong, woman character slay queen while her portrayal ingame is equivelant to that on a teenage girl in a Twilight book.

This is false. Alleria Windrunner controlled not one but two Void Demi-Gods, one of which was a Void Naaru, the Naaru being the Light counterpart of the Old Gods.

And Garrosh didn't control an Old God, he controlled the feeble remnant of an Old God.

The feeble remnant of an Old God that had to be locked down safe beneath the ground, where the Pandaren had to control their emotions into happy thoughts to not unleash the remainder of the power within? That feeble remnant that unleashed the Sha all over Pandaria? Lol.

No idea where you got that part from Alleria Windrunner. Garrosh would wipe the floor with her.

[Fabled]

I mean, if Garrosh was that formidable and headstrong, he wouldn't have needed to huff Sha/Old God heart juice to think he was actually any form of strong, only to go out with a whimper when his drugged up hallucination (Mythic Phase) wasn't real.

[Zuben]

One does not stumble on BFA's level of failure without something being wrong in the talent behind it. The writers' circle jerk around Thrall at Blizzconline cemented it.

[XDurionX]

Warcraft story has always been hilariously bad, if you play WoW for the story, i don't know what to tell you.

[niilokin]

That's factually correct. Garrosh is a weakling with daddy issues at its core.
He is the sad bully who is angry at the world because he feels weak.

Even after eating the garbage rest of an old god and ending in a form his own father would have spit on :


He kept his stupid "DiDuN NoFfIn wR0Ng" pathetic line.

Owning your mistake is what makes someone strong. Doubling down on idiot just makes you a fool.

You may not like it, but that's how he is and was written. Sure we can debate the quality of the story telling, but it's still the actual canon story.
It's ok to not like things. But don't be a Garrosh, don't get mad at everything you don't like...

huh... the dude was proud and defiant til his very end. He didn't give a fuck about anything but his vision of the Horde. The cinematic of him checking out of the game is a testament to the fact.

[Varodoc]

If you can not see how out of touch the writers are after Jaina flip flopped mood over several expansion, while the person that writes her says she is headstrong and has a STRONG CORE, after all the damage she has done, then I'm sorry.

Richard A. Knaak got shit on for his powertrips with his own character. Danuser gets shit on for having a boner for Sylvanas. Christie Golden keeps latching onto Jaina Proudmoore being a strong, woman character slay queen while her portrayal ingame is equivelant to that on a teenage girl in a Twilight book.



The feeble remnant of an Old God that had to be locked down safe beneath the ground, where the Pandaren had to control their emotions into happy thoughts to not unleash the remainder of the power within? That feeble remnant that unleashed the Sha all over Pandaria? Lol.

No idea where you got that part from Alleria Windrunner. Garrosh would wipe the floor with her.

Yes, those feeble remnants.

"Garrosh would wipe the floor with her" when Alleria absorbed an ENTIRE VOID NAARU (as opposed to just a feeble remnant) and the Chronicles show us that the Naaru are the Light counterpart of the Old Gods on the Cosmic hierarchy, this is on top of having already absorbed another Void Demi-God prior to the Seat of the Triumvirate dungeon.

You said that Garrosh was the only one who could absorb an Old God. This is false. Thus you have been corrected.

[Super Dickmann]

You said that Garrosh was the only one who could absorb an Old God. This is false. Thus you have been corrected.

All I ask is that you acknowledge that the enigmatic Garrosh was the first one to overcome the shadow's whispers. Then I will be satisfied.

[Varodoc]

All I ask is that you acknowledge that the enigmatic Garrosh was the first one to overcome the shadow's whispers. Then I will be satisfied.

Buddy it was just the rotting heart of the Old God, I'd like to see Garrosh try to absorb the mountain of flesh that is an unleashed Old God. OP is purposefully misinterpreting what happened, Garrosh didn't absorb an Old God but what was essentially the carcass of one.

Plus I mean Blizzard can say that Garrosh "controlled the whispers" all they want, the fact is that the game shows otherwise. As soon as he starts showering in Old God juice he grows increasingly more insane and unhinged, like he literally screams nonsense like "the world will burn muahahaha", that doesn't seem very stable and in control to me.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Well Garrosh did stay consistent, though it's true that at his core he was an overgrown child who hadn't really matured past his feeling of weakness and shame over having been sick of the Red Pox, and thus unable to join the Old Horde and called a weakling by Kargath Bladefist, and had a vision of the world far less nuanced and mature than most other important Orc characters of his time, including his fellow Mag'har Jorin Deadeye and Dranosh Saurfang. And that's not counting his inability to learn of his mistakes and blaming others for his faults.

His path to villainy and downfall were caused by this and his inability to see the Old Horde for what it was, even without démons.

It's telling that Thrall called Garrosh "boy" despite being younger than him.

[Nnyco]

Maybe the problems are shitty threads like this. Garrosh DID have a weak core, he was an absolute wreck when we met him in outlands. I mean even now hes just a petty person, he literally kamikaze'd his soul to an already down foe out of MERE SPITE.

[Aucald]

Having a strong core doesn't mean you can't change, or admit to your own mistakes - it means that regardless of what happens to you that core remains intact and a strong influence over who you are as a person. Jaina prior to Cata was always depicted as a sensitive and insightful soul who favored creativity over brutality. She changed somewhat following the destruction of her home as well as the murder of her people and friends, but the same core traits she had always possessed eventually evened her out and made it so she could eventually overcome that trauma and resume being who she was, changed but still essentially the same person.

Contrast this with Garrosh, who's introduced as being a pathetic shell of an Orc who continually mopes and groans about the actions of his father until Thrall relates Grom's heroic death. He then does a complete 180 and becomes an entirely new person, overly headstrong and unreasonably boastful. He then proceeds to question his new father-figure Thrall at every turn, basically acting like a complete git throughout WotLK, and on becoming Warchief tolerates no criticism and surrounds himself with yes-men like Malkorok who kowtow to his whims like sycophants.

So yes, in that vein Garrosh is essentially weak and Jaina is essentially strong - he refuses any and all culpability for his many mistakes, and ends up lodged deep in WoW's version of hell as equally and stupidly unrepentant. Jaina, on the other hand, acknowledges her mistakes and the criticism levied at her and stops her descent into zealotry to eventually level out and return to herself.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

All I ask is that you acknowledge that the enigmatic Garrosh was the first one to overcome the shadow's whispers. Then I will be satisfied.

Supermassive l-o-l here. +1