Torghast is a chore

[Amariw]

I was hyped new patch gives repeatable soul ash runs so i could just rush some low rank legendaries and be done with it...


But repeat runs only give like 200. Thats five times less then a normal run, and you'd need like 10 runs to get even a 210 legendary. Nobody likes torghast that much.

Why even bother giving repeat runs if they're so stringy with it? Why not make it like conquest, where there's an increasing weekly cap so you can run it when you have the time?

Why even limit it to torghast? Why not make m+ and raids and pvp give some soul ash? Wouldn't the game be better if people only did Torghast if they enjoyed it?

God i hope that stupid tower is wiped soon.

[LordVargK]

Soul ash is not limited to Torghast. You also get it from playing Korthia and the new maw events.

Additionally you get your regular soul ash each week for your first run. Overall you easily get 2500 ash each weeky, more than enough to catch up on your missing legendaries.

[Djuntas]

Because they want you to log in every week...MAU.

[Trend]

Because they want you to log in every week...MAU.

Do you know what MAU stands for? If you did, you would realize that it is a monthly metric which is not impacted by logging in more than once a month.

[Utrrabbit]

I was hyped new patch gives repeatable soul ash runs so i could just rush some low rank legendaries and be done with it...


But repeat runs only give like 200. Thats five times less then a normal run, and you'd need like 10 runs to get even a 210 legendary. Nobody likes torghast that much.

Why even bother giving repeat runs if they're so stringy with it? Why not make it like conquest, where there's an increasing weekly cap so you can run it when you have the time?

Why even limit it to torghast? Why not make m+ and raids and pvp give some soul ash? Wouldn't the game be better if people only did Torghast if they enjoyed it?

God i hope that stupid tower is wiped soon.

Funny. I made my new 225 leggo within a day of 9.1 starting and I was only sitting at 300 soulash.

No way yoy cant do it unless you are lazy.

[Dracullus]

Do you know what MAU stands for? If you did, you would realize that it is a monthly metric which is not impacted by logging in more than once a month.

If someone tells you one of these:

1) Devs are lazy,
2) Devs don't play WoW or other MMOs,
3) Devs don't care about WoW,
4) *insert thing I don't like* exist because MAU,

you should know any further discussion is pointless.

[Kallisto]

It is funny because "Devs/Ion doesn't play wow" is the easiest argument to debunk by just going to their character profiles in-game.

[Trend]

If someone tells you one of these:

1) Devs are lazy,
2) Devs don't play WoW or other MMOs,
3) Devs don't care about WoW,
4) *insert thing I don't like* exist because MAU,

you should know any further discussion is pointless.

LOL totally true.

[shadowmatrix]

Only 200 for runs that are getting faster and faster as you gain tower knowledge.

[Raugnaut]

Only 200 for runs that are getting faster and faster as you gain tower knowledge.

Not too much faster, and if the cap continues to remain static you'll get less and less upgrades as time goes on, to the point that you barely get 1 upgrade a week.

[Zaktar]

Do you know what MAU stands for? If you did, you would realize that it is a monthly metric which is not impacted by logging in more than once a month.

That the subscription is monthly doesn't mean the system trying to keep people paying it should be monthly. A system that tried to draw players in only once a month wouldn't work. Once a week keeps their engagement steady and ensures that whatever day their sub would run out, they've played recently (assuming that they're engaged by your system).

[Nnyco]

Because they want you to log in every week...MAU.

Ah yes the weekly monthly active users...

[Djuntas]

Do you know what MAU stands for? If you did, you would realize that it is a monthly metric which is not impacted by logging in more than once a month.

Erhm...People still gonna log in based on weekly things my dude. Better yet every week.

[MoanaLisa]

That the subscription is monthly doesn't mean the system trying to keep people paying it should be monthly. A system that tried to draw players in only once a month wouldn't work. Once a week keeps their engagement steady and ensures that whatever day their sub would run out, they've played recently (assuming that they're engaged by your system).

MAU is a metric for monthly active users and is used across the gaming industry to measure customer engagement with the title. It has nothing to do with subscriptions.

Log in once, you count for 1. Log in weekly, you count for 1. Log in 6 times a day for 30 days (180 if it's all in the same calendar month), you count for 1.

Whatever system or design you're writing about doesn't have anything to do with standard video game metrics for engagement which is what led off this silly discussion about counting weekly monthly active users.

More generally: Developers for an MMO will attempt to bring people back to play on a regular basis. It's monumentally stupid to think this is somehow evil or bad. If repetitive content is not the sweet-and-sour sauce of choice then it's a benefit to have several other games on hand to expand choice.

- - - Updated - - -

Because they want you to log in every week...MAU.

Erhm...People still gonna log in based on weekly things my dude. Better yet every week.

Excellent walkback. MAU still has nothing to do with weeks though. Log in once for 2 minutes and you're in the MAU count for the calendar month.

[Hyrja]

Choregast is a tor

[Molvonos]

Yay, you pedants totally got that guy for inaccurately using the term MAU.

Doesn't change that the rest of his statement is accurate, most MMO designers wants you logging in over and over and over. Blizzard designs, not for fun, but for what will keep people logging in and paying. If this is a problem for someone I'd recommend they try one of the many other MMOs that design for fun and engagement, rather than just engagement.

Gonna put this out there.

It's only a chore if you make it a chore. You go into torghast alone? Yea, that's a problem.

I, personally, love Torghast. I loved it before and I love it now.

I love doing it by myself but I certainly love doing it more with my guildies, which can make for some entertaining messes when we pick abilities that conflict (like the embiggening knockback while running around like a spazz).

If you find any part of it to be a chore, guess what? Don't do it. You're on a hard-line to find the entire game a chore and should likely go find something else to play, in all honesty.

[cparle87]

Because they want you to log in every week...MAU.

The m stands for monthly. You log in at all in the month you count as much as someone who logs in every week, or even every day. That argument holds no water.

[Zaktar]

MAU is a metric for monthly active users and is used across the gaming industry to measure customer engagement with the title. It has nothing to do with subscriptions.

Log in once, you count for 1. Log in weekly, you count for 1. Log in 6 times a day for 30 days (180 if it's all in the same calendar month), you count for 1.

Whatever system or design you're writing about doesn't have anything to do with standard video game metrics for engagement which is what led off this silly discussion about counting weekly monthly active users.

More generally: Developers for an MMO will attempt to bring people back to play on a regular basis. It's monumentally stupid to think this is somehow evil or bad. If repetitive content is not the sweet-and-sour sauce of choice then it's a benefit to have several other games on hand to expand choice.

- - - Updated - - -

Excellent walkback. MAU still has nothing to do with weeks though. Log in once for 2 minutes and you're in the MAU count for the calendar month.

Of course Monthly Active Users is particularly relevant to a monthly subscription based business model. I hope I don't have to explain why.

If you're trying to increase monthly engagement, timing your systems for a monthly rhythm is a poor strategy. A system oriented to MAU will not reflect a monthly cycle, a weekly cycle is a better choice. It's not "evil" to orient your systems this way, and I never said it was. I do believe that the more you orient your game toward driving regular engagement, the more fun you inherently strip out of it because you're trying to wag your dog by the tail. The fun has to come first.

[muto]

Don’t worry even Ion doesn’t like Torghast apparently. I just checked his armory. He’s only gotten the 2500 phantasma achievement, and hasn’t even completed a single Twisting Corridors, yet he continues to allow Torghast content to be pushed even though most people, like him, think Torghast blows. It’s Literally Islands in a tower, which I said from before the expansion even came out, except no random toys, cosmetics, or mounts. Only occasionally a pet off the last boss.

And yeah 200 per run sounds awful. Literally a grind to be a grind, which is what I also put in my little comment box when I canceled my sub.

[Darkeon]

Gotta lol at the amount of copium on the people whinging about MAU definition and pretending that they don't know what the dude meant in his post.