Maybe the problem are the writers

[TheFirstOnes]

Sorry but this post is a cope. Garrosh was winning the war and if Vol'jin didn't backstab Garrosh the Alliance would've gotten annihilated. Garrosh even won against the Burning Legion and smashed Mannoroth while capturing Gul'dan. (That we the players did release )

But on top of that, Garrosh didn't have anime powers like Varian. All he got was his own strength and hus willpower. He controlled an Old God. A feat not done by any character.

Garrosh was a formidable foe and a headstrong leader.

Except that was Grommash that did most of the work, regarding Mannoroth and the Legion.

And Garrosh did NOT control an Old God's Heart at all. This fucker knew what he was doing.

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Considering Garrosh stuck to his guns at all times and Jaina has flip-flopped twice per expansion up until finally settling on reverting to her WC3 characterization for no adequate reason in BFA I think we can make an informed decision on who's convictions were stronger.

Both have shitty fucking cores tbh. Varian's core is imo much greater than theirs. Hell, even Arthas had a pretty strong core. The dude fucked over Ner'zhul and Zovaal at the same time, and ripped his own Heart out so he couldn't feel pain or emotion anymore. The badass.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

She may have been "just a contractor", but that didn't prevent her from writing three major books for the franchise. At that point, she could no longer be considered a mere typewriter grunt, regardless of her contractual status with Blizz. Pretending that she just writes what others tell her and nothing but that, is hard to swallow.

Still, Golden isn't the worst offender here, Afrasiabi and Danuser are.

She wasn’t just writing what others told her she had a bit of push with things like putting anduin into the shattering but as far as knowing expansion plots she wouldn’t as to quote her.

Christie Golden
As I wasn’t working for Blizzard as a full-time employee, I was only given limited insight into anything. I was on a strictly need to know basis.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristieG...13339921997829

And to her roll now that she’s actually at blizzard.

Christie Golden

Actually, thanks for the chance for me to explain that I am not on the WoW team. I work for Story and Franchise Development, always have, and we work with all the teams when we are asked to regarding comics, novellas, cinematics, etc. So I can't comment on your question, sorry!

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristieG...51852786294786

[Super Dickmann]

Except that was Grommash that did most of the work, regarding Mannoroth and the Legion.

And Garrosh did NOT control an Old God's Heart at all. This fucker knew what he was doing.

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Both have shitty fucking cores tbh. Varian's core is imo much greater than theirs. Hell, even Arthas had a pretty strong core. The dude fucked over Ner'zhul and Zovaal at the same time, and ripped his own Heart out so he couldn't feel pain or emotion anymore. The badass.

Garrosh had daddy issues up the ass and was indecisive and weak in Outland. Upon overcoming that, living up to and surpassing his father was decisive to him. Hell, his favoritism towards his dad and his impatience to get at the people who foiled him is why he failed in Warlords. The dude has plenty of faults, but after his chat with Thrall in Nagrand he never once budged in his advocacy for the orcs and went to his grave and then to oblivion standing up for them.

As for Arthas, yes. Arthas took the wheel and killed Ner'zhul and in the new lore defied the Blue Man, snarking at every threat put in his way so he could be King. It's what made him an enjoyable character to follow in TFT.

[Jackstraw]

Quick sidenote, but I find it kind of fun that whoever says anything positive on Garrosh as a character gets chalked to a faction of apologists who claim he did nothing wrong.

Lads, I swear, you can appreciate decent writing even if it's done on an orc.

[Darkeon]

One doesn't need to dig deep into Christie Golden's twitter account to see that her preferential biases are severely linked to what feels wrong about the late stories.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

One doesn't need to dig deep into Christie Golden's twitter account to see that her preferential biases are severely linked to what feels wrong about the late stories.

Nor does one have to dig deep to find that she doesn’t work on the ingame stories and that any biases doesn’t be reflected in the actual story’s outside of books.

[Darkeon]

Nor does one have to dig deep to find that she doesn’t work on the ingame stories and that any biases doesn’t be reflected in the actual story’s outside of books.

I am sure it's all just coincidences.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I am sure it's all just coincidences.

you see what you want to see when you ignore thing's that don't back up your view.

[Darkeon]

you see what you want to see when you ignore thing's that don't back up your view.

Oh, I am sure of it.

I'm sure WoW's problems are also not to do with a lack of internal testing. Among other odd coincidences with Blizzard.

[Gelannerai]

I'd like to thank Blizz for the recent cinematic, stirring up all the "GaRroSh dId nOtHinG wRoNg!" posters. They endlessly go on about a flawed character being more interesting, then strenuously deny he had any flaws. They preach he's well written when his writing flailed around more than someone with five pounds of itching powder down his shorts. They praise him for never changing his mind, yet hail Grom as a hero when he's famous for changing his mind about the Legion. They proclaim he did everything for the Horde, when all he did was blow it apart.

Same energy as the Sylvanas “fans” that breathlessly defended every heinous act she went out of her way to commit since Cataclysm as “not evil, just pragmatic and staunchly defensive of her people.” Now we have Blizzard by way of the Jailer retroactively saying “yeah she was evil af the whole time” and those same people are like “SEE SEE SHE’S A GOOD GIRL!!!”

[geco]

Nor does one have to dig deep to find that she doesn’t work on the ingame stories and that any biases doesn’t be reflected in the actual story’s outside of books.

Precisely Golden had to write a book that gave reasons why the Horde was going to war in BFA and instead put influence to put Calia in history, which she herself says. Character that seems like a waste of money to have an avatar but not the interest of the community.

He also wrote the dialogue where Anduin explains the Honor to Varock that it is another nonsense.

So the things that she says she brought to the story are already bad.

Same energy as the Sylvanas “fans” that breathlessly defended every heinous act she went out of her way to commit since Cataclysm as “not evil, just pragmatic and staunchly defensive of her people.” Now we have Blizzard by way of the Jailer retroactively saying “yeah she was evil af the whole time” and those same people are like “SEE SEE SHE’S A GOOD GIRL!!!”

When she prefers to negotiate instead of killing everyone in Cata. There we see that she is only evil as Blizzard says. Because blizzard also says that being a Warguen is the worst thing that can happen to you. A Good Sylvanas would have killed them all.

[Gaidax]

Oh, I am sure of it.

I'm sure WoW's problems are also not to do with a lack of internal testing. Among other odd coincidences with Blizzard.

Christie Golden is not a lead narrative designer, heck she's not even a Blizzard employee. Somehow spinning off your grievances on a person who does not even decide how core WoW events actually unfold is kind of silly.

Golden has nothing to do with whatever happened to Garrosh, Sylvanas or any other character ingame, she's just contracted to write books and stories that match the overall vision and direction of what contractors tell her.

She's not the person who has any say in what comes in next expansion and where story actually goes.

[Darkeon]

Christie Golden is not a lead narrative designer, heck she's not even a Blizzard employee. Somehow spinning off your grievances on a person who does not even decide how core WoW events actually unfold is kind of silly.

Golden has nothing to do with whatever happened to Garrosh, Sylvanas or any other character ingame, she's just contracted to write books and stories that match the overall vision and direction of what contractors tell her.

She's not the person who has any say in what comes in next expansion and where story actually goes.

She is a symptom but not the disease. Nor did I ever said she was the sole bane reason as to why WoW's current lore is where it is.

[Gaidax]

She is a symptom but not the disease. Nor did I ever said she was the sole bane reason as to why WoW's current lore is where it is.

I understand you really jump out of your skin to single her out because apparently she kicked your dog or something, but reality is she's not calling the shots like... at... all.

[Darkeon]

I understand you really jump out of your skin to single her out because apparently she kicked your dog or something, but reality is she's not calling the shots like... at... all.

It's a chain of yes-men that all think alike. I'm sure you've noticed me diss NathanosInsert too, as if he has kicked my cat. Or the HateAllMen blue haired gal. This thread in specific is about Christie though.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Precisely Golden had to write a book that gave reasons why the Horde was going to war in BFA and instead put influence to put Calia in history, which she herself says. Character that seems like a waste of money to have an avatar but not the interest of the community.

Not sure what "Put calia in history" means? Calia was in game before they had golden write the book.

[Gaidax]

It's a chain of yes-men that all think alike. I'm sure you've noticed me diss NathanosInsert too, as if he has kicked my cat. Or the HateAllMen blue haired gal. This thread in specific is about Christie though.

Sounds like a construction in your mind, care providing actual credible sources for all that? Because to me it sounds like you're locked on some silly agenda and project it on everything for some reason I can't understand.

Yes Christie Golden has opinions, does not mean that she's calling the shots. She does what she's told to do in this relationship, not the other way round.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Christie Golden is not a lead narrative designer, heck she's not even a Blizzard employee. Somehow spinning off your grievances on a person who does not even decide how core WoW events actually unfold is kind of silly.

Golden has nothing to do with whatever happened to Garrosh, Sylvanas or any other character ingame, she's just contracted to write books and stories that match the overall vision and direction of what contractors tell her.

She's not the person who has any say in what comes in next expansion and where story actually goes.

Golden is employed at blizzard just not on the wow lore team she works on comics/books/cinimatics in house now instead of just contracting and has since 2017.

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She is a symptom but not the disease. Nor did I ever said she was the sole bane reason as to why WoW's current lore is where it is.

she's been working on wow since 2006 she's not a symptom of any shift she's pretty much always been a key part of wow's lore.

[geco]

Not sure what "Put calia in history" means? Calia was in game before they had golden write the book.

But according to Golden, she initiated them to give her an important role. she wants to give her this role that she has now.

[Ermelloth]

Look at this time capsule from 2011 and tell me if some of these don't look familiar

Well, idk about that, but I've never complained about the lore till patch 5.3 or so, when Garrosh character was turned into a racist madman. There, with all this rebellion thing, Garrosh going nuts and SoO events, the true madness started happening.