Flying really does make the world lose any sense of danger

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Summons dont work in netherstorm so how does one get to those dungeons?

You point your flying mount in the direction. You fly there.

[Nak88]

Then dismount and mount up on your land mount and problem solved.

[kail]

You have your own free will.

You do not have to use flying mount just because you can.

You can choose to use ground mount.

Just simply. Stop trying to decide how others play the game.

You can choose your own path, But you do not have to force that part on others.

I'm never going to understand why these Anti-flying people can not understand this simple fact.

The argument against flying is the basis the flying mechanic brought to WoW as a whole. Soloing out in the world became a little too safe when we can press W in a direction with little fear. Ground mount travel required a far more player agency if one doesn't want to get dazed or fall off a ledge. Flying negates that.

World PvP turned rather binary where you can pretty much toggle PvP off by pressing space to 40 yds above ground. On the flip side, those who don't have a flying mount yet are pretty much fish in a barrel for those who do. Blizzard has consistently tried to make it work with flying mounts and honestly the last time I recalled some decent wPvP action was in the timeless isles.

People who answer "just don't fly" severely misunderstand the arguement.

[cozzri]

TBC is my favorite WoW expansion by far but I'm definitely one of those people that now contend flying is one of the worst things ever added o the game.

I get why people like it and enjoy it but, it also really destroys the feel of the world.

I'm now in Shadowmoon Valley, all these big scary fortresses with hundreds of elite guards and barricades and towers.... LOL jk just fly directly over them none of the monsters seem to notice or care.

Land in the middle of their fortress, kill the boss, fly out.

What's the point of building a big outdoor fortress with thousands of elite guards if anybody can just zip in? Flying really does destroy the "feel" of the world. It's just way too safe and way too convenient and way too solitary.

I really think they could have done a better job implementing a much more limited flying system, one that gives you some of the pros without all the cons.

I'm sorry, is there something stopping you from using your ground mount to experience the grandeur of the fortress and extinguish everything in your way to the boss? There is literally nothing stopping you from playing the experience you are describing. Limiting choices in how you play the game is not always healthy, I know so many people that have given up on WoW because the devs are hellbent on funneling players into systems; pathfinder, artifact power, visions, conduits, heart of azeroth, etc. Blizzard devs have basically set up the game which translates into "play the game our way or suffer the wrath of the community, for we can do no wrong". Limiting choices on how you play the game/progress is not fun. Legendary items in legion, as bad as the RNG was, at least allowed the opportunity to acquire them from multiple aspects of the game, instead of forcing you into a dungeon that you may or may not like. Okay, you don't like flying... Don't fly! The game has become too much on rails already.

[Polybius]

The argument against flying is the basis the flying mechanic brought to WoW as a whole. Soloing out in the world became a little too safe when we can press W in a direction with little fear. Ground mount travel required a far more player agency if one doesn't want to get dazed or fall off a ledge. Flying negates that.

World PvP turned rather binary where you can pretty much toggle PvP off by pressing space to 40 yds above ground. On the flip side, those who don't have a flying mount yet are pretty much fish in a barrel for those who do. Blizzard has consistently tried to make it work with flying mounts and honestly the last time I recalled some decent wPvP action was in the timeless isles.

People who answer "just don't fly" severely misunderstand the arguement.

Misunderstand and reduce it, just like the "just don't be nervous/[orientation]/depressed/whatever :lolpepega:" people.

[Nalam the Venom]

The argument against flying is the basis the flying mechanic brought to WoW as a whole. Soloing out in the world became a little too safe when we can press W in a direction with little fear. Ground mount travel required a far more player agency if one doesn't want to get dazed or fall off a ledge. Flying negates that.

World PvP turned rather binary where you can pretty much toggle PvP off by pressing space to 40 yds above ground. On the flip side, those who don't have a flying mount yet are pretty much fish in a barrel for those who do. Blizzard has consistently tried to make it work with flying mounts and honestly the last time I recalled some decent wPvP action was in the timeless isles.

People who answer "just don't fly" severely misunderstand the arguement.

It just sounds like a lot of "You" problems.

Don't worry so much about how other players complete quests or do objectives.

You can choose how you play yourself.

You really don't have to think further than yourself.

[PoyoChan]

Its strange how often that this conversation comes up everybody is too busy crying 'Hurr I right you wrong' instead of looking at it from any other possible angle.

Flying isnt going anywhere, but that also doesnt mean that its implementation and usage is perfectly and can not be improved. Thankfully some of the solutions are already implemented in game and that is 'No fly zones' and areas where you get attacked in the sky by NPC's, so you actually have to get down to the ground in certain areas.

[Vilendor]

The argument against flying is the basis the flying mechanic brought to WoW as a whole. Soloing out in the world became a little too safe when we can press W in a direction with little fear. Ground mount travel required a far more player agency if one doesn't want to get dazed or fall off a ledge. Flying negates that.

World PvP turned rather binary where you can pretty much toggle PvP off by pressing space to 40 yds above ground. On the flip side, those who don't have a flying mount yet are pretty much fish in a barrel for those who do. Blizzard has consistently tried to make it work with flying mounts and honestly the last time I recalled some decent wPvP action was in the timeless isles.

People who answer "just don't fly" severely misunderstand the arguement.

The world became a little too safe when you hit 70 and and equiped some blues. In Karazhan/P1 gear the open world is a joke. I have no idea what are you guys rambling about, this argument is beyond bullcrap

"World PvP" ... yeah, lets ignore half the playerbase who choose to play on PvE servers and lets force everyone on the ground so a tiny minority can enjoy ganking low geared fresh characters while they fight 3 mobs (aka "world pvp") once a month for 30 min.

[TheUnrealDonald2]

How many times is this going to keep getting posted?
JFC if you don't like flying then DON'T FLY. Stop beating a dead horse.

Speaking of dead horses.. this very argument.

"If you don't like free gear, then stop using our newly implemented vendor that gives away the latest raid gear for free. Just raid instead."

[Kralljin]

Flying isnt going anywhere, but that also doesnt mean that its implementation and usage is perfectly and can not be improved.

Considering we are in the Classic subsection, i don't think anyone here seriously suggested that Blizzard should remove Flying from TBC.

Rather, it's a topic that comments on the development in hindsight, as Classic / Vanilla was frankly the *only* version of WoW that was actually developed without flying, hence it's actually a decent point to compare the two versions.

[Ringthane]

That's what flat-earth people say too.

And yet, with all the people that have ever lived, not one has ever found the actual end of the earth. You telling me with 7 billion people on earth right now, none of them can find the end of the earth? You might as well talk about all the people who think the Moon is made of green cheese.

- - - Updated - - -

The argument against flying is the basis the flying mechanic brought to WoW as a whole. Soloing out in the world became a little too safe when we can press W in a direction with little fear. Ground mount travel required a far more player agency if one doesn't want to get dazed or fall off a ledge. Flying negates that.

World PvP turned rather binary where you can pretty much toggle PvP off by pressing space to 40 yds above ground. On the flip side, those who don't have a flying mount yet are pretty much fish in a barrel for those who do. Blizzard has consistently tried to make it work with flying mounts and honestly the last time I recalled some decent wPvP action was in the timeless isles.

People who answer "just don't fly" severely misunderstand the arguement.

No, they don't. The argument is:

Flying makes the game too easy.

You want more of a challenge?

Don't fly.

It's that simple. If flying takes away the challenge, then remove it from the equation and you have all the challenge you want. Blizzard gave you the tools to have exactly what you want, and you still sit here whining about it. Enough already. You want more challenge than you get when you fly?

Then don't fly and shut up about it.

[kail]

No, they don't. The argument is:

Flying makes the game too easy.

You want more of a challenge?

Don't fly.

It's that simple. If flying takes away the challenge, then remove it from the equation and you have all the challenge you want. Blizzard gave you the tools to have exactly what you want, and you still sit here whining about it. Enough already. You want more challenge than you get when you fly?

Then don't fly and shut up about it.

And world pvp? Me choosing not to fly doesn't stop others from doing so.

- - - Updated - - -

The world became a little too safe when you hit 70 and and equiped some blues. In Karazhan/P1 gear the open world is a joke. I have no idea what are you guys rambling about, this argument is beyond bullcrap

"World PvP" ... yeah, lets ignore half the playerbase who choose to play on PvE servers and lets force everyone on the ground so a tiny minority can enjoy ganking low geared fresh characters while they fight 3 mobs (aka "world pvp") once a month for 30 min.

Dazing is still a mechanic to look out for in the ground. Never claimed mobs themselves are that dangerous unless designed as such but flying takes combat out of the equation most of the time.

- - - Updated - - -

It just sounds like a lot of "You" problems.

Don't worry so much about how other players complete quests or do objectives.

You can choose how you play yourself.

You really don't have to think further than yourself.

It's about basic design decisions in a massively multiplayer game. I don't even play in a PvP server anymore but I can easily consider so situation beyond mine.

[Nalam the Venom]

And world pvp?

Just don't PvP server?

I really like what they did with retail servers tbh.

They should adapt that system to classic as well.

Because then those who want to PvP can PvP.

I'm personally never going to play on a PvP server ever again.

Too many toxic people who just want to ruin your day.

[ellieg]

How does the trial of style impact you? Pet battles?

Its minor but even these things affect other players. Youll have items selling for prices they otherwise wouldn't. This can affect certain mobs or locations being farmed

[Vorkreist]

I get why people like it and enjoy it but, it also really destroys the feel of the world.

"The feel of the world" you try to allude to isn't something good. Actually historically it never was and never amounted to anything. Its the reason why everyone to this day can't wait to get pathfinder to fly over that great "feel of the world" even in retail with its heavily no-fly designed zones.
That "feel of the world" is something so microscopic in terms of overall fun of playing everyday that it doesn't mean anything. Having 5 minutes of "special immersion" when you do some quest in Shadowmoon Valley doesn't trump having the fun ability to fly over the world all the time and every day.

[Vampyrr]

You also just can't summon in Netherstorm at all aside from the summoning stone.

I think flying has it's place in the game although Blizzard probably regrets implementing it into the game as early as they did.

Things taking longer doesn't necessarily equate to a better experience and at least as far as TBC goes, you beat part of the game once you hit 70. Even on live I have no problem with them gating flying, I just have an issue with them gating flying as long as they do. Shadowlands actually does it's gating fine, but IMO flying should be obtainable before the .1 patches, even if it takes awhile to unlock.

At the end of the day having reasons to fly should be considered far more often, as well as having anti-flying measures put in the game at certain areas that you just want to ground people. There's absolutely no reason you really "need" flying on the live version of the game since forever, whereas TBC at least requires you to have flying to get into the TK dungeon/raids, Doomlord Kazzak, and certainly daily hub areas in SMV/BEM/Nagrand/Terrokar.

World PvP is really a poor excuse for limiting flying IMO. The amount of players that truly enjoy it or engage in it are miniscule at best, and on most realms people will just transfer off particular servers if the faction balance is even slightly skewed. The line "you think you do, but you don't" really applies to how most players approach PvP servers. They think they want engaging wPvP, but they really just want to win with hardly any back and forth.

If they had kept the flight whistle working like the past 2 expansions Id almost say even live doesnt need flying. Them disabling it was one of the dumbest mistakes they ever made. But in general I have no issues with flying I dodge and kite most mobs anyways when grounded to get where I need to go as it is. So what next disable mounts in general?

[lagiacrux]

Flying is only unlocked when you've already won the outdoor game. I don't want to have to progress through a game I've already beaten.

do druids beat the game earlier then other classes?

[flowski]

Thank god we have flying now in zones where me personally have nothing to do . This whole expansion for me so far is a no flying situation and i dont like it

[Mic_128]

I still feel like they missed a trick with just having flying be turned on/off. When Wrath was coming and talking about possible implementation of Flight, I was imagining something like our mounts wings would freeze over (hence the need or cold weather flight) or they were going to expand on the birds in Skyguard that would knock you off. Imagine if you were flying around and a swarm of Gargoyles came along and dismounted you. Or a giant Frostwyrm could freeze your mount solid.

[arkanon]

Its minor but even these things affect other players. Youll have items selling for prices they otherwise wouldn't. This can affect certain mobs or locations being farmed

I said how does it impact you. "it might sorta kinda maybe possibly change some prices maybe" is not impacting you at all. Be specific. And even if it did impact prices, which you have zero evidence of it doing, how does that impact you personally - again, be specific.