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  1. #41
    Keep your eyes on the prize, then what is the prize?

    My prize is: I enjoy playing with my RL friends.

    Have you ever heard of the saying: If you want to find out what you truly want, flip a coin? The answer isn't whether its heads or tails, but what you hoped for while the coin is in the air.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    You misunderstand me, I'm not calling you a "noob" or implying you lack skill. Hell, I'm the casual here, I didn't do any manually grouped content while I was playing because I didn't enjoy it at all. And that's exactly where you're at, except you're trying to play at a higher difficulty level than me and haven't accepted what I learned ... that if I'm not willing to do what it takes to enjoy the game at a certain level then I'm not really at that level.

    You talk about how Torghast is "extremely easy" content, yet balk at actually doing it. Just like my analogy, working out in the gym is extremely easy compared to playing an actual professional sport ... but it's a part of the package deal if you want to play at that level. It's boring, it's tedious, it's unenjoyable (especially when compared to what you really want to be doing) but it's part of it whether you like it or not.

    So either suck it up and do the shit you hate, to do what you really want to do, or you accept that you're not really at that level and move on. That's really your only choices since you've already stated you can't play non-competitively.

    I'm not trying to insult you or imply that you suck or anything like that. I'm just pointing out the reality of the situation if you refuse to do the drudgework associated with your goals.
    But it's ARTIFICIAL here; it's not real life. In real life there is a REASON you have to put effort and pain in order to succeed.

    Here you could put the pain into actually hard content; but no; you have to grind easy stuff to pay monthly fees.

  3. #43
    The first few years are the difficult part, then you get used to getting stomped at PVP or never getting invited in anything over lfr difficulty if you have 0 friends left in the game

  4. #44
    First step is to realize its a game.

    No one outside of it probably cares that you pulled a Leroy Jenkins. I went into it with a full time (50 to 60 hours a week), job, so I wasn't looking for another. I also started playing with friends who were in similar situations. The guild we were in planned to start some casual raiding but they picked nights where I always had to work, so it was easy to accept there were some things in the game I wasn't going to be able to do, that has carried on through the years.

  5. #45
    Some people just can't play casually. I'm one of them. That's why I just quit after a decade. Because I know I wouldn't have time for mythic raiding anymore due to IRL changes.

    I play ff14 free trial instead. I can justify being a casual/noob in a brand new game; I can't justify it in a game where I played at highest level. Even if I was doing normal raids in a casual guild, it would drive me crazy how bad people are. To me, being casual vs hardcore is purely about number of hours I put in. My mentality is the same doing both, because being competitive is what I enjoy.

  6. #46
    I do freak out, but nothing I can do about it - so I play the casual style imposed upon me.

    All 5 of the raid groups I've been in since 9.0 released are dead.

    9.1 seems to have me sorted though - a progression path for the dispossessed.

    Challenge Mode : Play WoW like my disability has me play:
    You will need two people, Brian MUST use the mouse for movement/looking and John MUST use the keyboard for casting, attacking, healing etc.
    Briand and John share the same goal, same intentions - but they can't talk to each other, however they can react to each other's in game activities.
    Now see how far Brian and John get in WoW.


  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by zortport View Post
    Some people just can't play casually. I'm one of them. That's why I just quit after a decade. Because I know I wouldn't have time for mythic raiding anymore due to IRL changes.

    I play ff14 free trial instead. I can justify being a casual/noob in a brand new game; I can't justify it in a game where I played at highest level. Even if I was doing normal raids in a casual guild, it would drive me crazy how bad people are. To me, being casual vs hardcore is purely about number of hours I put in. My mentality is the same doing both, because being competitive is what I enjoy.
    I'm same or almost same. I had given it another chance a while ago; I tried to only "pug optimally" as a personal challenge: the point was to not do mythic but at least be "hard core good" at making good pugs.

    Well even if you do that well it still fails; after 2-3 clears of heroic as a pug leader you realize that becomes too easy and you end up carrying people; mythic pugging is impossible because of the lockouts.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I'm same or almost same. I had given it another chance a while ago; I tried to only "pug optimally" as a personal challenge: the point was to not do mythic but at least be "hard core good" at making good pugs.

    Well even if you do that well it still fails; after 2-3 clears of heroic as a pug leader you realize that becomes too easy and you end up carrying people; mythic pugging is impossible because of the lockouts.
    Heroics will always be joke if you are used to mythic raiding (pugs clear it week 1). Because deep down you will always know it is not the real deal. I just can't be happy playing couple times a week and clearing heroic on week 10.

    I need to have something competitive in my life; be it sports or video games. the only way for me was to quit and find another fix for my competitive side, or play wow pretty much as a single player game. Mount farming, mog collecting etc. You can put more hours to mount farming than raiding prep, it can get pretty hardcore. But I lost my motivation after blizz added way too many mounts&toys with complete disrespect for players' time. Prior to that I had every single toy but one in BFA and 90% of the mounts; I couldn't bring myself to farm anything for SL. I killed M sire, called it quits.

    And for my competitive game, I started enjoying path of exile very much

  9. #49
    I've never cared enough about optimizing to even sim my character, and I manage to complete all the content I care to do.
    That includes curve, KSM, things like hardmode megadungeon etc. Never cared to progress mythic raids though.

    Experience alone gives me some idea which stats to prioritize for the spec I'm playing, but sometimes I'll check internet resources for a general stat prio anyway and stick to that for the patch.

    I tend to favor a lot of haste builds regardless because it makes me push buttons more often and I enjoy that somewhat hectic playstyle.

    Having baseline 50% haste with corruptions at the end of BFA was a highlight of the expansion for me.
    Last edited by Unlimited Power; 2021-07-12 at 07:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by AZSolii View Post
    "yes, let's piss him off because he loves his long hair. Let us twirl our evil mustaches amidst the background music of honky-tonk pianos! GENIUS!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Culexus View Post
    Yes i hate those sneaky account thieves that come to my house and steal my computer in order to steal some wow money! Those bastards! *shakes fist*

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I'm trying for the first time to - on purpose - play casually so I don't feel any kind of addiction to optimization so I can have some casual fun for a change and: I find it hard to not obsess about being optimal with levelling every subsystem very fast in a fast way like someone is chasing me; it's ruining the fun totally since it reminds me of being in a guild/job I don't like but it's myself.

    How do you guys do it; do you have a special mantra about it; or does it come naturally to you?
    Simple, I just don't care. If I get something done or not before the next thing comes out is no big deal to me. Being optimal or efficient has never been something I've cared about in gaming outside of the times I was raiding in heroic/mythic back in the day.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    To me, the entire idea of competitive PvE sounds ludicrous. It's just not that hard to be good at PvE activities in video games. Maybe at the very top level of play, World First, there's some degree of actual competitiveness and "skill", but for everyone else, it's just deciding not to play non-optimally.

    PvP is IMO the only place in video games where actual skill comes into play because you can't memorize what another person is going to do in advance of them doing it
    Even then in WoW it's more about gear. I remember when they were going to add the trial of the gladiator or something and PvPers were losing their shit over gear being normalized/equalized so that it was really a test of skill not who farmed the better gear.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    I've never cared enough about optimizing to even sim my character and I manage to complete all the content I care to do.

    Experience alone gives me some idea which stats to prioritize for the spec I'm playing, but sometimes I'll check internet resources for a general stat prio anyway and stick to that for the patch.

    I tend to favor a lot of haste builds regardless because it makes me push buttons more often and I enjoy that somewhat hectic playstyle.

    Having baseline 50% haste with corruptions at the end of BFA was a highlight of the expansion for me.
    As a sidenote: I instead did a lot of sims in my time: the irony is that secondary stats are almost always minimal min-maxing.
    E.g. most "absolute best stats!" guides rarely tell you that they mean "0.5% better than the second best" in most cases.
    In fact: if your PERSONAL STYLE really favors something different then you will probably get better numbers anyway.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I'm trying for the first time to - on purpose - play casually so I don't feel any kind of addiction to optimization so I can have some casual fun for a change and: I find it hard to not obsess about being optimal with levelling every subsystem very fast in a fast way like someone is chasing me; it's ruining the fun totally since it reminds me of being in a guild/job I don't like but it's myself.

    How do you guys do it; do you have a special mantra about it; or does it come naturally to you?
    You’ll learn to play casually (aka sacrifice alot of the game’s content for the bare minimum or overall tone down the intensity of what you do) if you had more things on your daily schedule. Like having school/training, work, and then significant other (especially last part) pestering you with things they deem important, and thus you’ll be torn to have to placate them otherwise you lose out on income, job experience and obviously physical/mental happiness.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    To me, the entire idea of competitive PvE sounds ludicrous. It's just not that hard to be good at PvE activities in video games. Maybe at the very top level of play, World First, there's some degree of actual competitiveness and "skill", but for everyone else, it's just deciding not to play non-optimally.

    PvP is IMO the only place in video games where actual skill comes into play because you can't memorize what another person is going to do in advance of them doing it
    Watch pikaboo play (highest amount of arena wins out of any character in all regions for his rogue). With enough time put into the game, rote memorization (I do this and they usually do that, or he does this and I found that this works best most of the time) and experience/intuition easily turn this game into simple memorization like pve with no addons.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    To me, the entire idea of competitive PvE sounds ludicrous. It's just not that hard to be good at PvE activities in video games. Maybe at the very top level of play, World First, there's some degree of actual competitiveness and "skill", but for everyone else, it's just deciding not to play non-optimally.

    PvP is IMO the only place in video games where actual skill comes into play because you can't memorize what another person is going to do in advance of them doing it
    I generally agree but competitiveness of PVE is the PVP factor of it. you are not fighting against NPCs, it is not a matter of killing it or not; you are fighting against other guilds to kill it first. This of course only applies to higher end guilds; for rank 1000+ guilds, it is mostly about getting CE or not. but in terms of mechanical skill, you are right. PVE is just another type of race.

  14. #54
    Herald of the Titans Baine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I'm trying for the first time to - on purpose - play casually so I don't feel any kind of addiction to optimization so I can have some casual fun for a change and: I find it hard to not obsess about being optimal with levelling every subsystem very fast in a fast way like someone is chasing me; it's ruining the fun totally since it reminds me of being in a guild/job I don't like but it's myself.

    How do you guys do it; do you have a special mantra about it; or does it come naturally to you?
    Since I play solo mostly (world content), I don't have anything to prove to anyone. So I play the way I like. Of course my play style is not optimal, but I don't care. I am having fun.

    I never was hardcore but I don't think I ever was more casual. Maybe I am getting fed up with RPGs as a genre.

  15. #55
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
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    Easy. I don’t care about the loop. I do what I want, when I want, and I sometimes take months of breaks at a time where I just don’t bother.

  16. #56
    I set goals for myself that are tied to what I find fun/rewarding to do, and do it in my own pace which makes it the most enjoyable. I am not tied to a raiding guild and mostly just play with a few friends with the same mentality, when you stop caring about what you could be doing and just do what you want to it becomes a lot easier to also just leave it be for a while when you have fulfilled what you wanted to do.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    By not caring.

    Oooh, someone is doing +22 keys? Cool, I'm doing 17-18s, that's fine for me.
    People have killed more raid bosses than me? Eh, what I kill is fine.
    People care about pvp at all? Good on them, I don't.
    What if you were wiping in +3s while people are clearing +22s? I only ask because comparing casual vs hardcore and using a +18 and a +22 really doesnt work. The average, casual player is not doing a +22, or a +18, or even anything at or above a +10. Can a casual do those, absolutely, but for most, those things are just leagues ahead of what they are willing to or capable of doing.

    To OP, if you are fretting about min / max and and still taking the game very seriously, then im not sure that being "casual" is for you - until your mindset towards the game changes, nothing will. For me, as with many I know, I was already struggling with the commitment required for the difficulty I was playing at, so I was "forced" to step back, but once I did, my attitude towards the game changed. This was difficult during legion so I kept pushing, difficult during BfA to some extent, but considering I dont like SL, it suddenly became VERY easy. I stepped back from "hardcore" raiding and my entire attitude towards my playtime changed.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2021-07-12 at 11:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  18. #58
    Three things, which I think others have touched on all of.

    #1. Practice. Train yourself not to look at the sources of info you'd rely on for harder-core play that don't apply to what you're doing now. Reward yourself in some way when you go a stretch of time without turning to them, with a favorite snack or something.

    #2. Set some goals for yourself, and do look at sources of info about your progress toward them.

    #3. Get to know folks who are interested in the same kinds of things you're doing at the moment. Team up with them. Talk with them. Build a community for yourself.

  19. #59
    Herald of the Titans
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    By not caring about the loop, don't need a noose around my nuts forcing me to log in every night.

  20. #60
    Make yourself aware that WoW is like fast food. It's fun to enjoy, but it's not the optimal choice and you might regret it after. Opportunity costs for ambitious WoW are high. Instead of pushing for that particular piece of gear you could be out there jogging and caring for your health, learning a programming language, learning a language, learning anything, playing an instrument, reading a book. Everything of these and more will do you more good than investing another hour into WoW.

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