Flying really does make the world lose any sense of danger

[arkanon]

I normally agree with most you say on this forum but can not here. World pvp used to happen everywhere. Now that you can collect fly up to avoid everything and are incentivized to do that to get to where you need to finish the quest It literally cuts a good portion of world pvp away. Since most the time you are in the air flying from point to point the only place world pvp happens is stalking quest hubs... It used to be everywhere and far more common due to everybody being on the ground and having to interact with each other.

But everyone was NOT on the ground - they were getting summoned, they were on a bird from FP to FP, sometimes skipping out entire zones while flying. On the ground, if you are engaged in combat, nothing has changed. Traveling from A - B was typically done via FP, and the only exception being heading somewhere you did not have the FP for yet, as in somewhere you had not been before. Considering that flying unlocks at max level, you will most likely have nearly all / all FP by then anyway, so again, nothing has changed.

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Plenty of ways to avoid being hit for 6 secs plus 3 for mount. Thats been a dynamic of world pvp since its inception.

But you do agree that once the person gets on the flying mount and can get in the air, the fight is over? Compared to a ground mount where having to avoid mobs and or other players can give opportunities to catch back up to your target?

Fly after them - follow them - just like you used to on the ground. If they chose to ride to a FP - the fight was over. If they chose to ride to a base - the fight was over. If they chose to stealth, the fight was over. If they chose to simply ride along a road, the fight was over. Nothing has changed.

[Mayia]

TBC is my favorite WoW expansion by far but I'm definitely one of those people that now contend flying is one of the worst things ever added o the game.

I get why people like it and enjoy it but, it also really destroys the feel of the world.

I'm now in Shadowmoon Valley, all these big scary fortresses with hundreds of elite guards and barricades and towers.... LOL jk just fly directly over them none of the monsters seem to notice or care.

Land in the middle of their fortress, kill the boss, fly out.

What's the point of building a big outdoor fortress with thousands of elite guards if anybody can just zip in? Flying really does destroy the "feel" of the world. It's just way too safe and way too convenient and way too solitary.

I really think they could have done a better job implementing a much more limited flying system, one that gives you some of the pros without all the cons.

This is why flying is restricted to 70 once you've finished questing.. for the most part.
Playing a hunter/mage anyone with aggro drop also doesn't feel anymore threat in the open world on a ground mount as we can ride through mobs then vanish/feign/invis.
In the blades edge mountains they tried to make fel canons i think they're currently broken.. feel threatening if your flying as well as a dragon who will shoot you out of the sky, its that direction Blizzard should've gone.. rather than punishing players they needed to design places to use.. and not use them.

In retail they just design zones in a way flying would break the zone.. just to claim they couldn't give us flying.. rather than just constructing a better zone design and giving us a reason not to stay flying.

Final Fantasty also has flying and is doing better than wow so... don't use it as an excuse as to why the game is doing worse.. its Blizzard just implementing a system poorly like the Dev team ALWAYS do.
Its not on players for using a tool given, its about making the tool useful in situations and not in others.

[derekmmorgan94]

But everyone was NOT on the ground - they were getting summoned, they were on a bird from FP to FP, sometimes skipping out entire zones while flying. On the ground, if you are engaged in combat, nothing has changed. Traveling from A - B was typically done via FP, and the only exception being heading somewhere you did not have the FP for yet, as in somewhere you had not been before. Considering that flying unlocks at max level, you will most likely have nearly all / all FP by then anyway, so again, nothing has changed.

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Flight paths to get to a zone where generally you would stay in and quest or do whatever at for a good amount of time before going to your next flight path. Now with flying you are semi-permanant flight pathing lol. In the zone you would be landing in to do stuff on ground where pvp takes place I'd argue over 50% of the time you are flying from point to point,finishing objective, and taking off to the air where pvp can not happen. Flightpaths take you to an area. Flying takes you anywhere and avoids pvp. I know you are not dumb so I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to not see the point. I for one think flying is whatever and don't care too much. But comparing flying anywhere at anytime to a flightpath avoiding pvp is kinda crazy to me. But regardless your argument. So if a flightpath avoids world pvp...then a permanant flightpath would permanantly avoid world pvp? Right?

[arkanon]

Flight paths to get to a zone where generally you would stay in and quest or do whatever at for a good amount of time before going to your next flight path. Now with flying you are semi-permanant flight pathing lol. In the zone you would be landing in to do stuff on ground where pvp takes place I'd argue over 50% of the time you are flying from point to point,finishing objective, and taking off to the air where pvp can not happen. Flightpaths take you to an area. Flying takes you anywhere and avoids pvp. I know you are not dumb so I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to not see the point. I for one think flying is whatever and don't care too much. But comparing flying anywhere at anytime to a flightpath avoiding pvp is kinda crazy to me. But regardless your argument. So if a flightpath avoids world pvp...then a permanant flightpath would permanantly avoid world pvp? Right?

I do see the argument, I just dont agree with it. And everyone keeps ignoring the countless ways wpvp could be avoided since day 1, such as stealth, for example.

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This is why flying is restricted to 70 once you've finished questing.. for the most part.
Playing a hunter/mage anyone with aggro drop also doesn't feel anymore threat in the open world on a ground mount as we can ride through mobs then vanish/feign/invis.
In the blades edge mountains they tried to make fel canons i think they're currently broken.. feel threatening if your flying as well as a dragon who will shoot you out of the sky, its that direction Blizzard should've gone.. rather than punishing players they needed to design places to use.. and not use them.

In retail they just design zones in a way flying would break the zone.. just to claim they couldn't give us flying.. rather than just constructing a better zone design and giving us a reason not to stay flying.

Final Fantasty also has flying and is doing better than wow so... don't use it as an excuse as to why the game is doing worse.. its Blizzard just implementing a system poorly like the Dev team ALWAYS do.
Its not on players for using a tool given, its about making the tool useful in situations and not in others.

GW2 allows you to port all over the world instantly as well, and yes, FF14 has flying as well, but to be fair, PvP isnt exactly what FF is known for.....

[kneehidude]

I really don't understand the WPvP argument.

First and foremost, not every server is PvP, so PvE and RP servers are filled with people who actively chose to not participate in WPvP.

Second, just because people are on a PvP server, does not mean they have to engage with you in WPvP. Sure, they might die, whatever. But they do not have to fight back. Hell, in the early stages of classic. I just wanted to level. If someone attacked me, I would just let them kill me, let it be over, run back to my corpse and keep going.

To piggyback off the last point. The people crying "Oh boo hoo, they got on their flying mount and got away!" Yeah, guess what? People can get on their ground mount and get away too. People can run into and instance and get away too. People can rez at the graveyard and get away too. People can simply log off and go play another character to get away too.

You are not entitled to another persons time. You want that WPvP kill? EARN IT! Don't cry to Blizzard and have them take something away that a lot of people like just because you couldn't get a WPvP kill.

People have always had a way to "get away" from the aggressor on PvP servers. All flying did was add another way to get away.

Furthermore, why are all you WPvP guys so upset that people can "get away" from you? I thought the whole point of WPvP was to "rile up the other side to drum up fair fights!" Thats the argument people always gave as to why they attacked lowbie towns. So "max level players would come to defend it! And we could have an EPIC World fight!"

Okay, so attacking someone who doesn't want to fight you is an "EPIC" world fight now?

[derekmmorgan94]

I do see the argument, I just dont agree with it. And everyone keeps ignoring the countless ways wpvp could be avoided since day 1, such as stealth, for example.

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GW2 allows you to port all over the world instantly as well, and yes, FF14 has flying as well, but to be fair, PvP isnt exactly what FF is known for.....

Okay, I was like there is no way you don't understand it. Yes there are ways to also avoid world pvp but when you have access to flying at any point you want is the BIGGER part of the problem. Idk if the other guy was denying that stealth and flight paths didn't exist or something but I understand that they also help avoid world pvp. But it still exist with those. If I owned a store that gave out free meals to 10%(stealth) of my customers I'd still have a majority of them pay (world pvp). Let's say I let another 10% eat for free (flight paths) and I'd still have a majority of my customers pay (world pvp). Now lets say I let ALL customers eat for free if they roll higher than a 2 on a d20(flying)....now only 10% of the total potential of profit(world pvp) is available. Having a few things in place to avoid world pvp is whatever. When everybody has access to flying is the boulder on top of all those pebbles that breaks the camel's back with world pvp imo. Another probably less stupid example. You have 100 people on the ground not flying. Let's say 10 have stealth. so 90 on the ground. Ill be generous and assume 10 only pay their subscription to use flightpaths all day long and never to go quest ro do something on the grouns. So 80 people on the ground. Some might find each other. Now flying is added. 80 were on the ground which is a majority but now they can fly from point to point at anytime. So cut 80 in half because if you are not fighting you are fllying to your next point/quest. That is what kills it. Everything has something to do with the end of world pvp but some more than others. Idk. At this point I don't think your mind is going to change and that's okay. I enjoyed flying when it came out and as someone who has to min-max everything including my time I still enjoy aspects of it. But I won't overlook even things with benefits can negatively effect other parts of the game. I don't think flying should be removed obviously. It has bcome a part of the game. I do think pvp servers should implement flying cds on specific servers or something if there was a big enough audience that wanted it but I will stand by that it did kill world pvp imo.

[arkanon]

I really don't understand the WPvP argument.

First and foremost, not every server is PvP, so PvE and RP servers are filled with people who actively chose to not participate in WPvP.

Second, just because people are on a PvP server, does not mean they have to engage with you in WPvP. Sure, they might die, whatever. But they do not have to fight back. Hell, in the early stages of classic. I just wanted to level. If someone attacked me, I would just let them kill me, let it be over, run back to my corpse and keep going.

To piggyback off the last point. The people crying "Oh boo hoo, they got on their flying mount and got away!" Yeah, guess what? People can get on their ground mount and get away too. People can run into and instance and get away too. People can rez at the graveyard and get away too. People can simply log off and go play another character to get away too.

You are not entitled to another persons time. You want that WPvP kill? EARN IT! Don't cry to Blizzard and have them take something away that a lot of people like just because you couldn't get a WPvP kill.

People have always had a way to "get away" from the aggressor on PvP servers. All flying did was add another way to get away.

Furthermore, why are all you WPvP guys so upset that people can "get away" from you? I thought the whole point of WPvP was to "rile up the other side to drum up fair fights!" Thats the argument people always gave as to why they attacked lowbie towns. So "max level players would come to defend it! And we could have an EPIC World fight!"

Okay, so attacking someone who doesn't want to fight you is an "EPIC" world fight now?

Honestly, when you actually dilute their argument down, it always results in the same thing: "i like to hide and wait to jump people who are moving from A to B, and i believe flying makes it harder for me to do that". 15 odd years this discussion has been going on, and 15 years in, thats STILL the core of the argument.

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Okay, I was like there is no way you don't understand it. Yes there are ways to also avoid world pvp but when you have access to flying at any point you want is the BIGGER part of the problem. Idk if the other guy was denying that stealth and flight paths didn't exist or something but I understand that they also help avoid world pvp. But it still exist with those. If I owned a store that gave out free meals to 10%(stealth) of my customers I'd still have a majority of them pay (world pvp). Let's say I let another 10% eat for free (flight paths) and I'd still have a majority of my customers pay (world pvp). Now lets say I let ALL customers eat for free if they roll higher than a 2 on a d20(flying)....now only 10% of the total potential of profit(world pvp) is available. Having a few things in place to avoid world pvp is whatever. When everybody has access to flying is the boulder on top of all those pebbles that breaks the camel's back with world pvp imo. Another probably less stupid example. You have 100 people on the ground not flying. Let's say 10 have stealth. so 90 on the ground. Ill be generous and assume 10 only pay their subscription to use flightpaths all day long and never to go quest ro do something on the grouns. So 80 people on the ground. Some might find each other. Now flying is added. 80 were on the ground which is a majority but now they can fly from point to point at anytime. So cut 80 in half because if you are not fighting you are fllying to your next point/quest. That is what kills it. Everything has something to do with the end of world pvp but some more than others. Idk. At this point I don't think your mind is going to change and that's okay. I enjoyed flying when it came out and as someone who has to min-max everything including my time I still enjoy aspects of it. But I won't overlook even things with benefits can negatively effect other parts of the game.

Ok first things first - this is just a huge wall of text, and extremely difficult to decipher. Secondly, the analogy is absolutely terrible, food? giving food away? percentages? what on earth.....When you have to start talking about food trucks and using entirely fabricated percentages with no bearing on the conversation, you are basically just creating a fantasy story to match your narrative. Stick to talking about the actual game - there is no need for an analogy here, just use actual in game terms and examples.

Im genuinely doing my best to understand what point you are actually trying to make, but im guessing its something along the lines of "certain classes / races / specs had ways to escape before, now EVERYONE can escape!" - if thats not your point, then please correct me, no hard feelings. But if that IS your point, EVERYONE could still ride away previously. Everyone could still go to a base, find allies, hide and hearth, or, run to a FP and zoom - gone. These are not specific to any race, class, faction, or even player level.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

So don't fly. Keep your immersion and sense of danger.


Of course, like everyone who whines about flying, you won't do this.

Simply because its not an option.
The issue with flying is not that it impacts the individual.
Its that it impacts the entire world.

No one is going to role play as some one without flying after they unlock it, just like no one is going to take gear off to make content more challenging after they upgrade.

That's effectively asking some one to create a challenge mode situation.

[arkanon]

Simply because its not an option.
The issue with flying is not that it impacts the individual.
Its that it impacts the entire world.

No one is going to role play as some one without flying after they unlock it, just like no one is going to take gear off to make content more challenging after they upgrade.

That's effectively asking some one to create a challenge mode situation.

So no one RPs as something they are not? No one does the iron man challenge? No one has leveld in panda starting zone just by herbing? There are countless examples of people doing exactly what you just said no one would ever do...You are confusing "i personally would not..." with "no one would ever..." - they are very different.

By your logic, no one would ever play a sub optimal spec, or a sub optimal class, or use sub optimal gear, or, using a retail example, use sub optimal covenant. Players with a fun over optimal mindset may be the majority, maybe the minority, but they absolutely 100% do exist.

[kneehidude]

Another thing I'll mention is that, people have created guilds and in some cases server communities built around specific types of gameplay.

Level locked (twink) raiding, WPvP (bleeding hollow), etc come to mind.

If there honest to god is enough interest in WPvP server with no flying, as much as people say there is, then there should be no problem starting a community and setting up rules and getting a realm dedicated to WPvP started.

[sam86]

i also remember dizzy falling in sketting quests, orgilla cannons in TBC, so calling flying remove danger is like calling getting to lvl 70 remove lvl 1 quest danger
some zones in wow - surprise - aren't made for when u outlvl it, or fly over it
Or do u feel danger when u go to Hellfire Pensuila doing some quests u forgot after u get full Black Temple gear?

[derekmmorgan94]

Honestly, when you actually dilute their argument down, it always results in the same thing: "i like to hide and wait to jump people who are moving from A to B, and i believe flying makes it harder for me to do that". 15 odd years this discussion has been going on, and 15 years in, thats STILL the core of the argument.

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Ok first things first - this is just a huge wall of text, and extremely difficult to decipher. Secondly, the analogy is absolutely terrible, food? giving food away? percentages? what on earth.....When you have to start talking about food trucks and using entirely fabricated percentages with no bearing on the conversation, you are basically just creating a fantasy story to match your narrative. Stick to talking about the actual game - there is no need for an analogy here, just use actual in game terms and examples.

Im genuinely doing my best to understand what point you are actually trying to make, but im guessing its something along the lines of "certain classes / races / specs had ways to escape before, now EVERYONE can escape!" - if thats not your point, then please correct me, no hard feelings. But if that IS your point, EVERYONE could still ride away previously. Everyone could still go to a base, find allies, hide and hearth, or, run to a FP and zoom - gone. These are not specific to any race, class, faction, or even player level.

I was trying to get across that I agree stealth classes can avoid pvp and flight paths can I guess technically avoid pvp but at a small percentage. Yes the food/profit analogy was not great but the point is small amounts of avoiding is fine when a majority of players are still on the ground. When every player can fly and is incentivized to then that big percentage of avoidance is what creates the problem. 2/10 people avoiding world pvp is okay because a majority still will have to run into eachother but when you add A big avoidance like flying on top of the small other stuff it becomes huge. Basically yes there have always been ways to avoid pvp but some are bigger than others (flying). But like I said I don't really care too much so I'm out. Lol sorry for shit analogy. Definitely was an easier way to word it haha.

[Kralljin]

"wahh wahh I don't like flying"
"Then don't fly"
"wahhh wahh that's not good enough I need blizz to entirely remove this mechanic because I don't like it!"

nah, that's more retarded.

No, this entire argument of yours is retarded.

Simply because you cannot see that flying is something that the game has to be designed around and impacts how players interact with the outdoor world, means that you cannot simply close your eyes and pretend it doesn't exist.

This argument is on the same level as if an Elemental Shaman said "I don't like Lava burst + Flame shock interaction" and you reply with "Well, don't use it!".
Sure, you can, but anyone that's not a complete fool knows that you just cripple yourself in every aspect and will run into continous issues because the developers design the Elemental Shaman around using Lava burst and not create a 2nd version for anyone that doesn't like this.

Flying isn't one of of those things where "Don't use it" a reasonable answer, because it's such a huge game changer how the player interacts with the world.

This argument is already stupid in TBC, where you cannot reasonably gather mats, cannot access certain content and whatnot, but it gets even more stupid once we arrive in Wotlk where Storm peaks + Icecrown are virtually designed around flying.

To piggyback off the last point. The people crying "Oh boo hoo, they got on their flying mount and got away!" Yeah, guess what? People can get on their ground mount and get away too. People can run into and instance and get away too. People can rez at the graveyard and get away too. People can simply log off and go play another character to get away too.

Spotted the guy who hasn't played Phase 2.

Right off the bat, mounting upon a ground mount doesn't mean you instantly "dodged" the engagement.
If you managed to mount up, you only avoided the fight temporarily, people will then chase you.
If you run into some mobs and get dazed => you're fucked
Because they're chasing you, means also they can cut any corner you make and catch onto you.
They can also slap on some mount speed stuff and be faster than you (Carrot on Stick, Gloves Enchant, Mithril Spurs).
They also don't have to get in Melee range, once they're in range to Charge / Blink + Frost Nova, they got you.

Disregarding when you're stuck in a "dead end" area and virtually cannot get around them.

With flying, nothing of this matters, because the second you lift off, you have basically successfully avoided them, period.
When you ressurect, all it takes is one mount up to be gone, whereas a resurrection without flying doesn't automatically result in that.

Running into an Instance...yeah, because every outdoor spot has a dungeon right around the corner.
Tell me about the dungeon located right next to the Air Elementals in Shadowmoon Valley, or Elemental Plateau.

Logging off is also no magic solution, because it takes 20 seconds for your character to despawn, meaning they get at least an additional kill on you.

I have played my share of Classic to tell that flying completely changed the dynamic of world PvP, because i don't have to catch people within less than three seconds in order to have a shot at killing them, neither can i escape others by just mounting.

[ellieg]

But everyone was NOT on the ground - they were getting summoned, they were on a bird from FP to FP, sometimes skipping out entire zones while flying. On the ground, if you are engaged in combat, nothing has changed. Traveling from A - B was typically done via FP, and the only exception being heading somewhere you did not have the FP for yet, as in somewhere you had not been before. Considering that flying unlocks at max level, you will most likely have nearly all / all FP by then anyway, so again, nothing has changed.

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Fly after them - follow them - just like you used to on the ground. If they chose to ride to a FP - the fight was over. If they chose to ride to a base - the fight was over. If they chose to stealth, the fight was over. If they chose to simply ride along a road, the fight was over. Nothing has changed.

"Nothing has changed". Lol. Ill ask 1 more time before I give up on this. Are there ANY differences between chasing someone on the ground vs in the sky? Is it truly 100% the same?

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I was trying to get across that I agree stealth classes can avoid pvp and flight paths can I guess technically avoid pvp but at a small percentage. Yes the food/profit analogy was not great but the point is small amounts of avoiding is fine when a majority of players are still on the ground. When every player can fly and is incentivized to then that big percentage of avoidance is what creates the problem. 2/10 people avoiding world pvp is okay because a majority still will have to run into eachother but when you add A big avoidance like flying on top of the small other stuff it becomes huge. Basically yes there have always been ways to avoid pvp but some are bigger than others (flying). But like I said I don't really care too much so I'm out. Lol sorry for shit analogy. Definitely was an easier way to word it haha.

This is exactly my point as well. All the ways to escape pvp have been a thing since day 1. I played all of vanilla with them existing. Flying on top of these ways to avoid pvp, is a large order of magnitude higher. It has added too easy of a way to avoid world pvp and its understandable that there are ppl that dislike this compared to vanilla where it didn't exist

[Kumorii]

I honestly think flying would be a lot better if there was some actual gameplay in it.

Mounts having different stats, stamina to fly, gliding, thermals, air combat to force your opponent to land. Not just what is basically the crappy swimming mechanic but faster.

This, add some gameplay, not sure about some of the examples, but flying needs something... or at least add some feel to it.
100% responsive in all directions with insta turning which is only limited to how quick you move the mouse makes flying just awful. It's just not fun to engage in a system like this, but you still do it because of the huge advantage.

Flying needs weight in it's movement.

[WowIsDead64]

Cant compare the two... riding on the ground in a game is nothing like a traffic jam, you arent slowed down by other people (unless theres so many people around the server is lagging, but this isnt exclusive to ground mounts).

Also the problem really isnt that flying exists in the game... the way it was implemented is the problem. There is practically zero flying gameplay, nothing to make flying engaging... its purely a convenience feature with vanity slapped onto it.
Over 10 years ago i still delved into some private servers, mainly for personal enjoyment (like exploration) and in there we flew around like GM's... except we didnt have to mount up. It literally functioned exactly the same way as the real flying in the real game... no flight physics to speak of.

If you take a look at some other games and MMO's that have flying aswell, they prove it can be implemented in a much better way.

Currently imo the best flying implemention in an MMO is in Guild Wars 2... their mounts have unique mechanics and some are physics based too, its very engaging and fun to use those mounts because they arent simply designed with pure convenience in mind.
Travelling around the world in there becomes gameplay in itself... its not an artificial obstacle, it is simply fun just like games are supposed to be!

Traffic jam - is just example of something, that you wouldn't want to do on daily basis. But this example it partly true. So called "claustrophobic" design, caused by lack of flying - actually causes real traffic jams on quest, because there too few quest mobs/items to compete for. So yeah, it this case other players actually cause traffic jams and slow you down.

You don't understand one thing. We don't actually need any "flying" gameplay. Exact purpose of flying - to avoid "exceeding" gameplay. Something like "dangerous flying" would ruin whole idea of flying and make flying completely pointless.

[Tertullian72]

True "classic" WoW - the same argument from 2007 with pretty much the same points made by everyone.

[schwank05]

I get what you're saying, but if you do most of the quests in every zone you ding 70 before you ever set foot in Netherstorm or Shadowmoon Valley.

Maybe instead of just dinging 70 they could have also required you beat a few key quest lines in both of those zones to unlock it first. After you've "completed" all the zon

It's just kinda sad that Shadowmoon Valley is built as this extremely intimidating and hostile zone but flying trivializes all of it.

NO! Just NO! This is why I despise Wow Retail since MOP I have not been able to fly. I want to level as fast as humanly possible, I despise Leveling and Quests in general the second I am max level I Port to the Major City Hub and abandon all non Dungeon/ PVP/ Raid quests and never touch another non daily quest for the rest of the xpac. I don't want to do leveling content at max level I want to be done with that BS, which Is why I almost exclusively level in dungeons and do very few quests since a quest rewards maybe 12k exp which is less than 10 mobs in a dungeon.

[kneehidude]

Spotted the guy who hasn't played Phase 2.

Right off the bat, mounting upon a ground mount doesn't mean you instantly "dodged" the engagement.
If you managed to mount up, you only avoided the fight temporarily, people will then chase you.
If you run into some mobs and get dazed => you're fucked
Because they're chasing you, means also they can cut any corner you make and catch onto you.
They can also slap on some mount speed stuff and be faster than you (Carrot on Stick, Gloves Enchant, Mithril Spurs).
They also don't have to get in Melee range, once they're in range to Charge / Blink + Frost Nova, they got you.

Disregarding when you're stuck in a "dead end" area and virtually cannot get around them.

With flying, nothing of this matters, because the second you lift off, you have basically successfully avoided them, period.
When you ressurect, all it takes is one mount up to be gone, whereas a resurrection without flying doesn't automatically result in that.

Running into an Instance...yeah, because every outdoor spot has a dungeon right around the corner.
Tell me about the dungeon located right next to the Air Elementals in Shadowmoon Valley, or Elemental Plateau.

Logging off is also no magic solution, because it takes 20 seconds for your character to despawn, meaning they get at least an additional kill on you.

I have played my share of Classic to tell that flying completely changed the dynamic of world PvP, because i don't have to catch people within less than three seconds in order to have a shot at killing them, neither can i escape others by just mounting.

The point being, there are ways of getting away and "not engaging" in WPvP if one does not want to. The fact that everyone would rather mount up and fly away should tell you everything you need to know about everyones "LOVE" for WPvP. It might be fun for some, but the vast majority have no desire for it.

Sure, some people are upset that it isn't a big deal anymore, but it was a side game at best and were better off without it

[Kralljin]

The fact that everyone would rather mount up and fly away should tell you everything you need to know about everyones "LOVE" for WPvP.

If i see a rogue going in stealth right in front of me and i'm playing a class that gets countered by rogue in 1v1 (which is the majority)...i'd also mount up.
If i see two people from the enemy faction killing mobs over there, i'd also be rather cautious and wait on my flying mount to see how the situation develops.

Imagine if a dev gave everyone an IWIN Button in PvP, then claims success over every player using his IWIN button.

It might be fun for some, but the vast majority have no desire for it.

At the same time, PvP Servers are generally more popular than PvE Servers.
According to Ironforge.io, you have more than thrice as many players on PvP Servers than PvE ones.

Also that data is purely based on PvE metrics, not PvP ones.
Disregarding that for some odd reason, we also have far more PvP Servers than PvE ones.

The duality of man.