Night warrior as a skin for NElf DH instead of Pala?

[Triceron]

Were they in charge during Cata, MoP and WoD?

They were in charge of Shadowlands where we saw Garrosh sacrifice himself in vain to defeat a boss we already beat.

Again, do you believe the writers love Garrosh as much as Sylvanas?

I guess you really think the current writers would have Sylvanas beaten by Tyrande in some later patch when Tyrande gets 'full control of her Night Warrior powers through training'. 'It's possible because we don't really know'

[username993720]

They were in charge of Shadowlands where we saw Garrosh sacrifice himself in vain to defeat a boss we already beat.

Again, do you believe the writers love Garrosh as much as Sylvanas?

I guess you really think the current writers would have Sylvanas beaten by Tyrande in some later patch when Tyrande gets 'full control of her Night Warrior powers through training'. 'It's possible because we don't really know'

No. That's not what i said.
I meant she would probably get similar closure to Garrosh in WoD (if i nailed the pattern).

[Triceron]

No. That's not what i said.
I meant she would probably get similar closure to Garrosh in WoD (if i nailed the pattern).

Except we know she's not, otherwise Tyrande vs Sylvanas would have been that cinematic moment.

It came and went. And the reason is because the writiers still have plans for Sylvanas.


Storywise it goes in 3 possible directions that I see:
- She martyrs herself against Zovaal, breaking the cycle and freeing up choice for souls to go anywhere in the afterlife
- She *becomes* the new Jailer, again breaking the cycle but in a different way ala Bolvar (less likely scenario)
- She becomes completely redeemed and is allowed to continue living as a mortal, doesn't actually die in the story (Another unlikely scenario)

At no point do I think any other character is going to get 'retribution' against her. The writers are obviously not intending to satisfy any of the Greymane or Night Elf fans who only want her 'redemption' paid in blood.

We're at a point where the only option where Sylvanas dies in the story will be the one that she chooses to. Because that's what the whole story has been moving towards - Sylvanas was never given the choice. Anduin literally says it to her - "You never had the choice...!". Watch that cinematic again (Anduin before he gets turned), and you can see exactly what motivates Sylvanas to doing all this bullcrap. Killing all those people, making people 'join our cause, or be made to serve', 'Horde means NOTHING!', breaking the Helm of Domination... All of that is a result of Sylvanas not having a choice to die on her own terms and being forcefully brought back into life to serve others. She thought she would gain choice by joining Zovaal, for a greater purpose of breaking the cycle; but instead we see Zovaal betray her and treat her as a servant - a moment where Sylvanas realizes she still has no choice. So the obvious fitting end is if she goes out *on her own terms*, the only real choice she has left in her life.

[Razion]

Not all subtlety Rogues are criminals. Some serve as spies and infiltrators.

The animation doesn't look anything like Void magic. They don't disappear in a purple smoke or something.

I'm not going to sit here and say all spies and infiltrators in the setting are purely good or evil, and I don't think you haven't probably killed your fair share of mobs titled spies or infiltrators that weren't affiliated with Old Gods, either. The skillset of Rogues is long established, and I don't think we need to argue in circles for a point that is very well made for rogues in history.

Your interpretation of it looking enough like it notwithstanding, I'm speaking about the written 'A Good War' as well. The fact of the matter is that we have confirmation as well that Stealth is referred to as well in the transcript of the Cinematic and that the rogues are disappearing/reappearing from sight right in front of them. These rogues aren't just hiding - if they were, they wouldn't be turning invisible. Stealth as depicted in this cinematic whether you think it looks sufficiently Void enough, is depicted by the mechanic at play here. Stealth is an active ability here, being referred to as a function with real immediate consequence and visual representation.

[Teriz]

At this point it's fairly obvious that Night Warrior wont be a thing.

I would like to see a Demon Hunter class skin for it though.

[Razion]

How so? does Tyrande wield a big two-hander and wears heavy plate armor?

To bring it back to DKs/Palys as Night Warrior for a second though, it does appear like Tyrande is wearing plate over her robes right now to represent the Night Warrior. At times she has wielded just one of the glaives, but she's also been carrying around two more recently which is a little unique. But, we've seen other examples of dual-wielding Paladins before, too, such as in the Scarlet Crusade. I probably wouldn't expect such a skin to allow dual-wielding visuals (perhaps like how Artifacts have done in the past), but if it did that's certainly something that would make the skin appealing and special. I think the skin unlocking Nelf Palys would do more for Nelfs in terms of long term impact and cool factor than just visual options for DHs would.

[Triceron]

To bring it back to DKs/Palys as Night Warrior for a second though, it does appear like Tyrande is wearing plate over her robes right now to represent the Night Warrior. At times she has wielded just one of the glaives, but she's also been carrying around two more recently which is a little unique. But, we've seen other examples of dual-wielding Paladins before, too, such as in the Scarlet Crusade. I probably wouldn't expect such a skin to allow dual-wielding visuals (perhaps like how Artifacts have done in the past), but if it did that's certainly something that would make the skin appealing and special. I think the skin unlocking Nelf Palys would do more for Nelfs in terms of long term impact and cool factor than just visual options for DHs would.

I think Class Skin system is flexible enough to allow for spell FX, animation and weapon changes, we could have a Paladin skin that would be tailored to a Night Elf look, without just being a Night Elf 'Paladin' that uses Swords and Warhammers.

A Night Elf Class Skin of the Paladin could use special transmogs and special animations that make the most sense for a Night Elf.




Glaives For 1H Swords, Huntress even has a shield for Tanking spec




Moonglaive for 2H Weapons, using new animations specific for the use of this '1H' style of massive strikes. These animations can then be reused for any future Warden class as well, which is a total bonus.


All of this could be applied as weapon options for a melee-centric 'Night Warrior'.

[username993720]

Except we know she's not, otherwise Tyrande vs Sylvanas would have been that cinematic moment.

It came and went. And the reason is because the writiers still have plans for Sylvanas.

Except it happened before we faced her in Sanctum of Domination. Not after. Garrosh's ass was handed to him after the players beat him up.

We're at a point where the only option where Sylvanas dies in the story will be the one that she chooses to. Because that's what the whole story has been moving towards - Sylvanas was never given the choice. Anduin literally says it to her - "You never had the choice...!". Watch that cinematic again (Anduin before he gets turned), and you can see exactly what motivates Sylvanas to doing all this bullcrap. Killing all those people, making people 'join our cause, or be made to serve', 'Horde means NOTHING!', breaking the Helm of Domination... All of that is a result of Sylvanas not having a choice to die on her own terms and being forcefully brought back into life to serve others. She thought she would gain choice by joining Zovaal, for a greater purpose of breaking the cycle; but instead we see Zovaal betray her and treat her as a servant - a moment where Sylvanas realizes she still has no choice. So the obvious fitting end is if she goes out *on her own terms*, the only real choice she has left in her life.

Well, i thought so too.
But, i came to believe she might have done this to gain her soul back, which was at the hands of Zovaal.

I'm not going to sit here and say all spies and infiltrators in the setting are purely good or evil, and I don't think you haven't probably killed your fair share of mobs titled spies or infiltrators that weren't affiliated with Old Gods, either. The skillset of Rogues is long established, and I don't think we need to argue in circles for a point that is very well made for rogues in history.

Named
Garona Halforcen (former Gul'dan's spy)
Marg Nighteye
Gorick Guzzledraught
Prospector Anvilward
Agent Connelly
Thalen Songweaver
Spy To'gun
Spy Grik'tha
Keltus Darkleaf
Shadowlord Slaghammer
Valeera Sanguinar
Jenai Starwhisper
Garm Whitefang (action figures)
Unnamed
Alliance Spy
Blackrock Spy
Brewfest Spy
Captured Death's Rise Spy
Cloaked Alliance Spy
Dark Iron Spy
Dead Spy
Forsaken Spy
Nightborne Spy
Revealed Alliance Spy
Sentinel Spy
Sunhawk Spy
Syndicate Spy
Thaurissan Spy

Not Old God-aligned.

Known
Named
Infiltrator Hameya
Infiltrator Marksen
Minchar
Ik'thal
Krenaea
Rexnas
Xirnek
Unnamed

Alliance Infiltrator
Antoran Infiltrator
Cultist Infiltrator - Sholazar Basin
Cultist Infiltrator - During Elemental Unrest
Forsaken Infiltrator - Ashenvale Forest
Kor'kron Infiltrator - Icecrown
Mogu Infiltrator
Nightborne Infiltrator
Shadow Infiltrator
Sentinel Infiltrator - Ghostlands
Skybreaker Infiltrator
Stormforged Infiltrator - The Storm Peaks
Suspicious Infiltrator
Theramore Infiltrator - Dustwallow Marsh
Greywatch Infiltrator - Stormheim
7th Legion Infiltrator - Stormsong Valley
Nathrezim Infiltrator - Korthia
Dread Infiltrator
Doomguard Infiltrator

Except for the Klaxxi and the Cultist, none of them are aligned with the Old Gods.

Your interpretation of it looking enough like it notwithstanding, I'm speaking about the written 'A Good War' as well. The fact of the matter is that we have confirmation as well that Stealth is referred to as well in the transcript of the Cinematic and that the rogues are disappearing/reappearing from sight right in front of them. These rogues aren't just hiding - if they were, they wouldn't be turning invisible. Stealth as depicted in this cinematic whether you think it looks sufficiently Void enough, is depicted by the mechanic at play here. Stealth is an active ability here, being referred to as a function with real immediate consequence and visual representation.

Never doubted it makes the Rogue invisible.
What i'm doubting is that it is Void magic.

To bring it back to DKs/Palys as Night Warrior for a second though, it does appear like Tyrande is wearing plate over her robes right now to represent the Night Warrior. At times she has wielded just one of the glaives, but she's also been carrying around two more recently which is a little unique. But, we've seen other examples of dual-wielding Paladins before, too, such as in the Scarlet Crusade. I probably wouldn't expect such a skin to allow dual-wielding visuals (perhaps like how Artifacts have done in the past), but if it did that's certainly something that would make the skin appealing and special. I think the skin unlocking Nelf Palys would do more for Nelfs in terms of long term impact and cool factor than just visual options for DHs would.

Paladins can't even wield a glaive, let alone two of them.
And, i doubt she wears plate right now. The silver lining could be metallic, but that's nothing major.

I'd like to differ. I think such a skin would harm nelfs. Night elves Paladins are already shown to be different through Delas Moonfang.

A Night Elf Class Skin of the Paladin could use special transmogs and special animations that make the most sense for a Night Elf.

A Night elf Sentry. Not a Paladin.

A Huntress. Not a Paladin.

A Warden. Not a Paladin.

A High Priestess skin for Maiev in HotS. Not a Paladin.

Actual Night elf Paladins:

Several Night elf Paladin NPCs exist, countering the Tauren Sunwalkers' belief in the Sun with that of the Moon. Delas Moonfang, a former Priestess of the Moon, turned into a Paladin in Legion and joined their class order hall:

"After a fateful encounter on a Legion world, she converted to a paladin of the Knights of the Silver Hand, saying she had always felt her education incomplete. She is the first night elf to join the Order of the Silver Hand."

Nerus Moonfang:

He uses abilities like Holy Flare, Blast of Light, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm.

Alynblaze:

He uses abilities like Blessing of Might, Divine Storm, Hammer of Wrath, Retribution Aura.

Eternal Champion:

They use abilities like Queen's Blade and Shimmering Strike.

[Triceron]

Except it happened before we faced her in Sanctum of Domination. Not after. Garrosh's ass was handed to him after the players beat him up.

Doesn't matter. We know (now) that she isn't gonna die because the writers have something more planned for her.

Garrosh on the other hand is free to die because the writers don't have anything more planned for him. I mean, the best send off he could that would make fans happy is if they brought him back to kill Sylvanas and scream 'GOTCHA, BITCH!'. We know that was not ever gonna happen either.

Well, i thought so too.
But, i came to believe she might have done this to gain her soul back, which was at the hands of Zovaal.

Pretty stupid plan when Zovaal could have just killed her on the spot for any act of defiance.

Also the story seemed not to indicate that Zovaal had something she wanted. She looked generally surprised that he even had it, and he brought out that information as though she'd never really known it still existed. And frankly, obtaining her soul is not the reason she worked with the Jailer, since we're actually being told she's doing this out of her own choice because it happens to be *what she thinks* is an actual choice.

The realization that it wasn't a choice at all comes at the moment of the cinematic.

Again, the reason Sylvanas lives? Because the Writers aren't gonna kill her off like that.


But of course, the Writers could also do exactly as you said and just say it was the Jailer responsible for making Sylvanas doing all this, since they already made him responsible for practically *everything* that happened in Warcraft 3.

A Night elf Sentry. Not a Paladin.

A Huntress. Not a Paladin.

A Warden. Not a Paladin.

I'm literally talking about the weapons they use as an example, not making these characters actually playable.

I'm just not bothered to download the images, draw big red circles that even a 5yr old can understand, and reupload them all just for the sake of your understanding.


Do I really have to paint a picture for you how Night Elves use glaives, and there's no current gameplay representation of this so far? If they add it through a new class skin as a cosmetic feature, then it can also be applied to other existing Night Elf melee classes like Warriors; or even new ones like Warden. It'd all come as a part of a package, you see, just like how Allied Races didn't just come with new races, but also a bunch of extra customization options for every existing race and also some heritage armor options for older races.

[username993720]

Doesn't matter. We know (now) that she isn't gonna die because the writers have something more planned for her.

You got that right.

Garrosh on the other hand is free to die because the writers don't have anything more planned for him. I mean, the best send off he could that would make fans happy is if they brought him back to kill Sylvanas and scream 'GOTCHA, BITCH!'. We know that was not ever gonna happen either.

Would have loved to see that.

Pretty stupid plan when Zovaal could have just killed her on the spot for any act of defiance.

Also the story seemed not to indicate that Zovaal had something she wanted. She looked generally surprised that he even had it, and he brought out that information as though she'd never really known it still existed. And frankly, obtaining her soul is not the reason she worked with the Jailer, since we're actually being told she's doing this out of her own choice because it happens to be *what she thinks* is an actual choice.

He rewards her for her aid. If that was the agreement between them, then she achieved it, regardless if she chose to defy him or not. Might be a secondary goal, or an added bonus.

Do I really have to paint a picture for you how Night Elves use glaives, and there's no current gameplay representation of this so far?

The Demon Hunter wields glaives.
And, if the Night Warrior and Warden become playable classes/specs, you can bet your ass they would too.

[Triceron]

The Demon Hunter wields glaives.

All Night Elves in the RTS wield Glaives as melee weapons. They're just different types of Glaives.

As an extended transmog system (that includes new animations) they could apply different Glaives as customizations over 1H and 2H weapons.

And, if the Night Warrior and Warden become playable classes/specs, you can bet your ass they would too.

That was exactly my idea. Have you not been reading the words?

"Moonglaive for 2H Weapons, using new animations specific for the use of this '1H' style of massive strikes. These animations can then be reused for any future Warden class as well, which is a total bonus."


I mean even in Legion, they gave Guardian Druid a Fist weapon and Warriors could use Flails. Not hard giving different types of Glaive options to a Night Warrior/Warden class or spec or class skin.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I really wish WoW had more fun when it came to role fantasy on top of the gameplay class possibilities. We don't need new classes to add more flavor to the world, at least not strictly.

[Syegfryed]

Because it's common sense.

it is not.

like...?

in wow terms? a sand troll is a subrace, thats why it is a customization only

So, let me get this straight. You consider a Wildhammer dwarf to be a subrace because it ended up as customization, but a Dark Iron dwarf as a different race because they ended up as an allied race, even though both are different dwarf clans?

That is not what i consider, that is what they are, that is the canon, a wildhammer is a sub race while dark iron are their own race.

I mean, would you consider the Highmountain Tauren more than a minor variation? the Lightforged Draenei? The Mag'har Orcs and the Void elves? i mean, there's nothing much to them...

the canon is that they are other races, not subraces, they have enough differences, more than just appearance or look

[Triceron]

in wow terms? a sand troll is a subrace, thats why it is a customization only

That is not what i consider, that is what they are, that is the canon, a wildhammer is a sub race while dark iron are their own race.

the canon is that they are other races, not subraces, they have enough differences, more than just appearance or look

I agree with this assessment. Allied races are their own races. Customizations that imply any racial or tribal differenced can be considered subraces.

Blizzard has represented this through gameplay so far, and Wildhammer are not actually playable as a race, but can be represented by Dwarf race as a customizable option including tattooes snd more.

The only thing I'd argue is that customizations aren't canon, otherwise gameplay wise, it is as explained.

[username993720]

All Night Elves in the RTS wield Glaives as melee weapons. They're just different types of Glaives.

As an extended transmog system (that includes new animations) they could apply different Glaives as customizations over 1H and 2H weapons.

I agree.

I mean even in Legion, they gave Guardian Druid a Fist weapon and Warriors could use Flails. Not hard giving different types of Glaive options to a Night Warrior/Warden class or spec or class skin.

Nah. You've used the right word for it:

transmog system

it is not.

How come?

in wow terms? a sand troll is a subrace, thats why it is a customization only

And a Darkspear isn't?

That is not what i consider, that is what they are, that is the canon, a wildhammer is a sub race while dark iron are their own race.

And before they were added as an allied race and as a customization option, what did you consider them?

the canon is that they are other races, not subraces, they have enough differences, more than just appearance or look

Well, i don't say they aren't. I just don't deny them being related to the main races.

[starstationprofm]

Night Elves should not have Paladins. They don't have knights. They don't traditionally fight in heavy armor, or with shields.

[Vaedan]

Those were ranged though, not melee.

I'd actually love it if they had retooled Survival into a Ranged Throwing-weapon spec though.

Oh I would love to see that too, and I think it would be best possible compromise to the whole melee SV vs ranged SV controversy. Thanks to Legion content, I guess hunters will be tied to Spears because of artifacts. Reworking SV into bow/gun wielding spec again would basicaly made 1/3 of its skins unusable. Making it ranged spec defined by spear throwing works just fine.

It'd be also very cool for trolls (headhunters!) or even night elves, if they got some glyphs to change their animations to glaives (in style of huntresses units from RTS).

[Triceron]

Night Elves should not have Paladins. They don't have knights. They don't traditionally fight in heavy armor, or with shields.

Huntresses have shields and wear plated armor.

[Syegfryed]

And a Darkspear isn't?

Darkspear is a tribe of jungle trolls, sand troll is a subrace of jungle troll.

And before they were added as an allied race and as a customization option, what did you consider them?

past it does not matter, what amtter is the canon now.

Well, i don't say they aren't. I just don't deny them being related to the main races.

they being related is not the point here, a night elf is related to a blood elf, and both of then are related tot rolls too.

And vulpera are not related to goblins.

- - - Updated - - -

The only thing I'd argue is that customizations aren't canon, otherwise gameplay wise, it is as explained.

they specifically said they are canon, and they went in the lore to see if the customizations made sense.

[username993720]

Darkspear is a tribe of jungle trolls, sand troll is a subrace of jungle troll.

No, it isn't.
They are both offshoots of the Zandalari Trolls.

past it does not matter, what amtter is the canon now.

Basically, you don't have an answer.

they being related is not the point here, a night elf is related to a blood elf, and both of then are related tot rolls too.

Yes, but a blood elf evolved to have a different structure altogether.
A Tauren with moose antlers is not that different from a Tauren with bovine horns.