Page 1 of 4
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    About Sylvanas' motivation

    And so I understand correctly that Sylvanas is unhappy that after death there is no choice where to go? But this is absolutely fucking stupid. How does she imagine it? Everyone should decide for himself where he wants after death? Then what to do with the villains? Just imagine that after Arthas died, he would go to his heaven in which he destroys Quel'Thalas 10 times a day. Would Sylvanas be happy if she knew about this?

  2. #2
    I think it's more that mortals don't truly have freedom and are instead fuel and recruits for the Shadowlands. Also that all of that is chosen by one goddess answerable to no one who followed her Own arbitrary set of morals.

    Speculation but Im guessing the "Lifelands" also use mortal souls in a magical engine. So assuming she knows more then we do it's possible the entire mortal soul life cycle is just to act as fuel for divine beings.

    That's why she betrayed the Jailor since he was replacing one arbitrary god for another. The betrayal makes sense, what doesn't is that she did not see it coming.
    Last edited by Newname1234567890; 2021-07-14 at 05:17 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    And so I understand correctly that Sylvanas is unhappy that after death there is no choice where to go? But this is absolutely fucking stupid. How does she imagine it? Everyone should decide for himself where he wants after death? Then what to do with the villains? Just imagine that after Arthas died, he would go to his heaven in which he destroys Quel'Thalas 10 times a day. Would Sylvanas be happy if she knew about this?
    Kind of hard to say. If you want to give the creative team credit she tried to play on Anduin's compassion and ignorance of the actual way the Shadowlands works they could twist it into getting an almost clean slate, where they keep some of it as emotional drives behind it her actual motives they would unveil, in the inevitable exposition dump, where they somehow try to make her look not stupid.

  4. #4
    It's something like.
    It bothers me that the US has inflation so I am going to adopt the Argentine economic model.

    But changing inflation with "little freedom".

    Or something like they are deforesting forests so in protest I am going to cut down all the trees on my block.


    That is, they show her unable to make a plan. Less will you think about the consequences of whether what you want to achieve works.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    And so I understand correctly that Sylvanas is unhappy that after death there is no choice where to go? But this is absolutely fucking stupid. How does she imagine it? Everyone should decide for himself where he wants after death? Then what to do with the villains? Just imagine that after Arthas died, he would go to his heaven in which he destroys Quel'Thalas 10 times a day. Would Sylvanas be happy if she knew about this?
    I believe her perspective is supposed to be extremely warped, intentionally, by the Jailer and that she is unaware of this manipulation. If I recall correctly, as far as Sylvanas knows, she believes that her soul was doomed for the Maw solely because of what the Lich King did to turn her into a banshee. That all of her actions in life and undeath ultimatly had no meaning because some external entity decided her fate for her based on some unforeseeable bias.

    She has that perspective specifically because the few times she's had a glimpse into the Shadowlands the Jaile's minions were there to torment her soul so that she equates death with eternal suffering. Whatever events lead to her meeting the Jailer specifically, idk, but he evidently sold her a bill of goods "see how unfair this system those self righteous gods made is? See how they mistreated me too, just like you were mistreated? But if we work together, we can find justice for all!" I'd assume he doesn't really tell her the truth about the Arbiter, or that he is responsible for her Shadowlands experiences thus far.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    That's why she betrayed the Jailor since he was replacing one arbitrary god for another. The betrayal makes sense, what doesn't is that she did not see it coming.
    This too. Blizzard sold us on Sylvanas being a cunning and manipulative 4D chess player...and then had her being played like a fiddle with such a childish level of naivete.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    And so I understand correctly that Sylvanas is unhappy that after death there is no choice where to go? But this is absolutely fucking stupid. How does she imagine it? Everyone should decide for himself where he wants after death? Then what to do with the villains? Just imagine that after Arthas died, he would go to his heaven in which he destroys Quel'Thalas 10 times a day. Would Sylvanas be happy if she knew about this?
    Her disgust towards the hypocritical and oppressing system of the Shadowlands is literally the only thing you can give her credit for. Of all the countless bad things she has as a character, why make a thread to bash on the one thing she had "right"?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I believe her perspective is supposed to be extremely warped, intentionally, by the Jailer and that she is unaware of this manipulation. If I recall correctly, as far as Sylvanas knows, she believes that her soul was doomed for the Maw solely because of what the Lich King did to turn her into a banshee. That all of her actions in life and undeath ultimatly had no meaning because some external entity decided her fate for her based on some unforeseeable bias.

    She has that perspective specifically because the few times she's had a glimpse into the Shadowlands the Jaile's minions were there to torment her soul so that she equates death with eternal suffering. Whatever events lead to her meeting the Jailer specifically, idk, but he evidently sold her a bill of goods "see how unfair this system those self righteous gods made is? See how they mistreated me too, just like you were mistreated? But if we work together, we can find justice for all!" I'd assume he doesn't really tell her the truth about the Arbiter, or that he is responsible for her Shadowlands experiences thus far.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This too. Blizzard sold us on Sylvanas being a cunning and manipulative 4D chess player...and then had her being played like a fiddle with such a childish level of naivete.
    Pretty basic human psychology used, the same type you see with those that have a husband or wife which is cheating on them, its not all but some do some serius mental gymnastics to convince themself that he or she isnt cheating on them up until the day the evidence become to much to ignore.

    In other words even tho he do bad thing she convince herself that its just to reach the end goal, and then they reach the end goal and he dont stop he doubles down instead and then Sylvanas finally understand that she has been played and they have never been equals.
    Last edited by Raven; 2021-07-14 at 06:16 PM.

  8. #8
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    10,842
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Pretty basic human psychology used, the same type you see with those that have a husband or wife which is cheating on them, its not all but some do some serius mental gymnastics to convince themself that he or she isnt cheating on them up until the day the evidence become to much to ignore.

    In other words even tho he do bad thing she convince herself that its just to reach the end goal, and then they reach the end goal and he dont stop he doubles down instead and then Sylvanas finally understand that she has been played and they have never been equals.
    More like she changed her ultimate motivations three or four times in as many years, depending on what writers wanted to do with her - the best part being where she lied to herself in her inner monologue. At this point, she is no longer a character but rather a walking plot device, and arguably has since the big retcon from Before the Storm.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Pretty basic human psychology used, the same type you see with those that have a husband or wife which is cheating on them, its not all but some do some serius mental gymnastics to convince themself that he or she isnt cheating on them up until the day the evidence become to much to ignore.

    In other words even tho he do bad thing she convince herself that its just to reach the end goal, and then they reach the end goal and he dont stop he doubles down instead and then Sylvanas finally understand that she has been played and they have never been equals.
    The way you frame it almost makes it sound like her breaking through Stockholm Syndrome, in a way. That could be an interesting angle to look at it from.

    The more i think about it the more i believe she saw the alliance, as a means to an end to basically fight a war against fate itself and free everyone from it's shackles. Going off the perspective formed by the Jailer that no choice in anyone's life is truly their own to make, because it had been preordained.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    More like she changed her ultimate motivations three or four times in as many years, depending on what writers wanted to do with her - the best part being where she lied to herself in her inner monologue. At this point, she is no longer a character but rather a walking plot device, and arguably has since the big retcon from Before the Storm.
    That's likely the real world explanation. Lack of communication within and from Blizard toward the writers. That said it would be nice, if they could manage to tie it together into something coherent.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    Her disgust towards the hypocritical and oppressing system of the Shadowlands is literally the only thing you can give her credit for. Of all the countless bad things she has as a character, why make a thread to bash on the one thing she had "right"?
    It seems that all that disgusts Sylvanus Cringerunner is that she herself was sent to eternal torment for her crimes.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    It seems that all that disgusts Sylvanus Cringerunner is that she herself was sent to eternal torment for her crimes.
    If that were the case she'd have gone to Ravendreth and eventually have the option to go elsewhere or join the Venthyr. That's distinctly not what happened.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    It seems that all that disgusts Sylvanus Cringerunner is that she herself was sent to eternal torment for her crimes.
    But she wasn't, the jailer snatched her. Her original afterlife seems to have been Ardenweald.

  13. #13
    her motivation doesn't make sense because she went out of her way to condemn countless innocent people to suffer in the maw. if she wanted to free us all from an eternity of suffering then she is the biggest fucking idiot in the history of Warcraft. that, or the writers have no idea how to handle a story with characters that have complicated motivations.

  14. #14
    She had clear motivations and goals.

    Then she progressed with those and got new, somewhat plausible motivation and goals.

    And finally it all went to shit, retconning most of it as some sort of Masterplan and 5d chess, as a means to further the storyline for other main characters (see Anduin and the rest of the Fantastic Team), leaving Sylvanas in a "Plot Nonsense" kind of area. But it's okay as she'll either be banished or jailed (loot pinata down the line once she goes crazy tm), redeemed or killed.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I believe her perspective is supposed to be extremely warped, intentionally, by the Jailer and that she is unaware of this manipulation. If I recall correctly, as far as Sylvanas knows, she believes that her soul was doomed for the Maw solely because of what the Lich King did to turn her into a banshee. That all of her actions in life and undeath ultimatly had no meaning because some external entity decided her fate for her based on some unforeseeable bias.

    She has that perspective specifically because the few times she's had a glimpse into the Shadowlands the Jaile's minions were there to torment her soul so that she equates death with eternal suffering. Whatever events lead to her meeting the Jailer specifically, idk, but he evidently sold her a bill of goods "see how unfair this system those self righteous gods made is? See how they mistreated me too, just like you were mistreated? But if we work together, we can find justice for all!" I'd assume he doesn't really tell her the truth about the Arbiter, or that he is responsible for her Shadowlands experiences thus far.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This too. Blizzard sold us on Sylvanas being a cunning and manipulative 4D chess player...and then had her being played like a fiddle with such a childish level of naivete.
    When did Blizzard sell us this? The time that she was partnered up with the Jailer and he was the one actually telling her how to go about things? It’s more that Blizzard has sold that the Jailer is the 4D chess player and Sylvanas was his pawn while thinking she was his partner.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I believe her perspective is supposed to be extremely warped, intentionally, by the Jailer and that she is unaware of this manipulation. If I recall correctly, as far as Sylvanas knows, she believes that her soul was doomed for the Maw solely because of what the Lich King did to turn her into a banshee. That all of her actions in life and undeath ultimatly had no meaning because some external entity decided her fate for her based on some unforeseeable bias.

    She has that perspective specifically because the few times she's had a glimpse into the Shadowlands the Jaile's minions were there to torment her soul so that she equates death with eternal suffering. Whatever events lead to her meeting the Jailer specifically, idk, but he evidently sold her a bill of goods "see how unfair this system those self righteous gods made is? See how they mistreated me too, just like you were mistreated? But if we work together, we can find justice for all!" I'd assume he doesn't really tell her the truth about the Arbiter, or that he is responsible for her Shadowlands experiences thus far.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This too. Blizzard sold us on Sylvanas being a cunning and manipulative 4D chess player...and then had her being played like a fiddle with such a childish level of naivete.
    When did Blizzard sell us this? The time that she was partnered up with the Jailer and he was the one actually telling her how to go about things? It’s more that Blizzard has sold that the Jailer is the 4D chess player and Sylvanas was his pawn while thinking she was his partner.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    She had clear motivations and goals.
    Sylvanas should have had her original afterlife after wotlk and another forsaken should have replaced her, but it seems blizz was too attached to her.

    They could have even used Calia back then as a proper forsaken to replace her, who wants to restore lordaeron and grind the enemies of her people into dust
    Last edited by Combatbutler; 2021-07-14 at 08:28 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Sylvanas should have had her original afterlife after wotlk and another forsaken should have replaced her, but it seems blizz was too attached to her.
    And people would have gone wild to see her back again. Instead she stuck around like a floater and people are asking why nobody flushed.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    And people would have gone wild to see her back again. Instead she stuck around like a floater and people are asking why nobody flushed.
    Sure they would have much like with Kael,Vashj and Illidan, but she would have been gone for years.

  19. #19
    Isnt she a high elf again? She'll prolly just be seen as redeemed and reinstated as the Forsaken queen or something.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    This too. Blizzard sold us on Sylvanas being a cunning and manipulative 4D chess player...and then had her being played like a fiddle with such a childish level of naivete.
    Yeah it's pretty crazy how the guy who, as of the Retcon lore of Shadowlands, created your mortal enemy might have the exact same ideology as said enemy.

    But SURPRISED PIKACHU FACE HE SAID "SERVE"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •