[Movie] Black Widow

[Nerraw]

Too late. Most have sucked. And worse, the MCU kills them off.

At least they kept Agatha around. And Justin Hammer is also still out there somewhere.

[PrimiOne]

I dunno, I thought Vulture was excellent. And I am also a comic reader.

You thought Thanos sucked?

Taskmaster pretty good, Dreykov sucked.

Ego was... fine. He didn't suck but he wasn't great either.

It all comes down to personal opinion though, so no need for everyone to accept your conclusion

Wich Thanos? The 2018 one that sacrificed, if soul gems don't lie, the thing that he loved the most for his perceived greater good or the 2014 (2019) one "I will rewrite the universe to my image"?

The End Game Thanos crashed the good trend of the Infinite War one. There's zero dimensions to the former one with the added sin of not even having an awesome "Wow Thanos rules" moment. He just punches whoever the fuck crosses him so yeah I pretty much think End Game Thanos suck.

Would you see a "Vulture" show on Disney+? Well,fuck. you would see it because we fans would see "Alicia Masters goes to a College of Liberal Arts" but I mean people were (and are) excited for "Loki". That's excelllent. It happens in the comics all the time: villain is so cool that it gets upgraded to "hero" ( or semihero or antihero ...but protagonist of his own story). Ironically enough: both Black Widow and Taskmaster (and Avenger since 4 years ago) were villains people liked so much they became heroes. Maybe we have different perception of excellent but that's excellent for me.

And of course it's important to have a personal opinion but it's important to understand too the world we live in and you can't deny the general opinion of MCU villains is not precisely fervor...and Disney just don't care: the movie is about the hero and to be honest, as I said earlier, I'm already ok with it.

[tyrlaan]

We all get it, you liked this below than average movie. And that is fine. I also really like terrible movies like pearl harbor.
But don't try to make it seem as it is any good. The movie as I mentioned is average at best especially since its mostly an action movie and Natasha is a human but it seems like she has superpowers, surviving most of the hits she takes which is ridiculous, especially with movies like mission impossible or John wick out there.

On the subject. Very horrible how they keep genderbending or just mutilating characters for the sake of the woke bible. They did Taskmaster horrible, they might just invent a new character instead of butchering others, they basically deadpooled taskmaster, and its the Wolvering version of deadpool (ugh)

Yes, clearly your opinion is more valid and accurate. Thanks for getting me back on track.

Wich Thanos? The 2018 one that sacrificed, if soul gems don't lie, the thing that he loved the most for his perceived greater good or the 2014 (2019) one "I will rewrite the universe to my image"?

The End Game Thanos crashed the good trend of the Infinite War one. There's zero dimensions to the former one with the added sin of not even having an awesome "Wow Thanos rules" moment. He just punches whoever the fuck crosses him so yeah I pretty much think End Game Thanos suck.

Would you see a "Vulture" show on Disney+? Well,fuck. you would see it because we fans would see "Alicia Masters goes to a College of Liberal Arts" but I mean people were (and are) excited for "Loki". That's excelllent. It happens in the comics all the time: villain is so cool that it gets upgraded to "hero" ( or semihero or antihero ...but protagonist of his own story). Ironically enough: both Black Widow and Taskmaster (and Avenger since 4 years ago) were villains people liked so much they became heroes. Maybe we have different perception of excellent but that's excellent for me.

And of course it's important to have a personal opinion but it's important to understand too the world we live in and you can't deny the general opinion of MCU villains is not precisely fervor...and Disney just don't care: the movie is about the hero and to be honest, as I said earlier, I'm already ok with it.

Imma be honest, I didn't follow the majority of what you said here. But I agree that most MCU villains are poor, we just differ on a few.

[Darththeo]

Too late. Most have sucked. And worse, the MCU kills them off.

Movie - Status of main villain
Iron Man - Dead
Hulk - Alive
Iron Man 2 - Dead
Thor - Does not die in movie
Captain America - Alive
Avengers - Does not die in movie
Iron Man 3 - Dead
Thor 2 - Dead
Captain America 2 - Dead
Guardians - Dead*
Avengers 2 - Dead
Ant-man - Dead
Civil War - Alive
Doctor Strange - Alive
Guardians 2 - Dead
Spider-man - Alive
Thor 3 - Dead
Black Panther - Dead
Infinity War - Does not die in movie
Ant-man 2 - Alive
Captain Marvel - Alive
Endgame - Dead
Spider-man 2 - Dead
Black Widow - Dead*

In 14 of 24 MCU movies the villain dies.
In some of these movies, secondary villains survive. Loki didn't die to Infinity War and isn't a villain at that point (more of an Anti-hero). Ronin while killed in Guardians of the Galaxy appears in Captain Marvel.

[Miyagie]

Movie - Status of main villain
Iron Man - Dead
Hulk - Alive
Iron Man 2 - Dead
Thor - Does not die in movie
Captain America - Alive
Avengers - Does not die in movie
Iron Man 3 - Dead
Thor 2 - Dead
Captain America 2 - Dead
Guardians - Dead*
Avengers 2 - Dead
Ant-man - Dead
Civil War - Alive
Doctor Strange - Alive
Guardians 2 - Dead
Spider-man - Alive
Thor 3 - Dead
Black Panther - Dead
Infinity War - Does not die in movie
Ant-man 2 - Alive
Captain Marvel - Alive
Endgame - Dead
Spider-man 2 - Dead
Black Widow - Dead*

In 14 of 24 MCU movies the villain dies.
In some of these movies, secondary villains survive. Loki didn't die to Infinity War and isn't a villain at that point (more of an Anti-hero). Ronin while killed in Guardians of the Galaxy appears in Captain Marvel.

Captain Marvel plays 30+ years before Guardians 1.

[Darththeo]

Captain Marvel plays 30+ years before Guardians 1.

Yes, because 2014 and 1995 are 30 years apart.

Guardians 2 takes places shortly after Guardians 1, both take place in 2014.

It is 19 years. I am pointing out that just because a villain is dead does not mean we are never going to see them again.

[Donald Hellscream]

saw the hd rip is on the pirating streaming sites already, did this release on disney+ and not just cinemas or something?

Yeah, they released it on Disney+ as a part of their premier service, with it being released into the general disney+ library october 6th I believe.

There was a big stink about in Denmark with Disney demanding a rather steep price of the cinemas for the rights to run the movie, which the largest Danish cinema chain didn't want to pay as long the movie would also be available on Disney+ premier concurrent with it running in the cinema, Disney asking such a steep price also means that many independent cinemas in the smaller towns won't have a snowballs chance in hell to run it because they just don't have the budget that nationwide franchises do. So it is either pay almost double the price of a movie ticket, wait 3 months until it was available on regular Disney+, or stream a pirated version off of whatever piracy site people use.

[Miyagie]

Yes, because 2014 and 1995 are 30 years apart.

Guardians 2 takes places shortly after Guardians 1, both take place in 2014.

It is 19 years. I am pointing out that just because a villain is dead does not mean we are never going to see them again.

I thought it played in the 80s.

[tyrlaan]

Too late. Most have sucked. And worse, the MCU kills them off.

If most have sucked, why do you care if they kill them off?

[Darththeo]

I thought it played in the 80s.

Carol went missing per the movie in 1989.

[Shadowferal]

If most have sucked, why do you care if they kill them off?

Shows how little thought is given to the script, and absolutely no thought given to future endeavors.
When they kill off all the villains, what then? Create new characters? That would be a rather novel approach.

[tyrlaan]

Shows how little thought is given to the script, and absolutely no thought given to future endeavors.
When they kill off all the villains, what then? Create new characters? That would be a rather novel approach.

Yup, you totally nailed it.

[Darththeo]

Shows how little thought is given to the script, and absolutely no thought given to future endeavors.
When they kill off all the villains, what then? Create new characters? That would be a rather novel approach.

It is pretty common place even before the MCU to kill villains off in the Superhero movies.
I honestly don't know why the MCU gets crap for it.

Only 14 of the MCU movies does the villain die in it. And of 3 of those, the real villain dies but another villain survives.

Now, yes, 2 of the 10 movies where a major villain doesn't die ... that villain is Loki (Thor and Avengers). That means there are 9 villains in the MCU that survived their initial outing. (Abomination, Loki, Red Skull, Zemo, Dormammu, Vulture, Thanos, Ghost, and Yon-Rogg). Then you have movies like The Winter Soldier where the Winter Soldier while not the main villain survived and Winter Soldier was a villain for one side during Civil War or Dr Strange setting up Baron Mordo as a villain in the future.

[JDL49]

One of the great complaints against the comics for most (not all) of their existence was that nothing was ever final with a villain. They never died or stayed in prison, or got old or became truly disabled or just flat out retired. The reason of course was that the comics people simply couldn't afford to waste a 'good' baddy on a single arc or episode. That simply does not apply to the movies.

The vast majority of the movie audience has no allegiance or love for most of these villains and would prefer something new, all other things being equal. The other thing to consider is that Disney-MCU is NOT doing street level movies. Street level villains as result are much more likely to get short shrift in the films and unless they change their trajectory, in Disney+ as well.

[Shadowferal]

One of the great complaints against the comics for most (not all) of their existence was that nothing was ever final with a villain.

Since when?
"We" loved Dr Doom. We certainly loved to hate the Red Skull. And Thanos had a complexity that gave him a depth that we wanted to see more of. The bad guys were always more interesting. In the "Annihilation" we had Ronan and the Super Skrull both enemies, (both battle-hardened veterans) team up...and written well enough that we understood why.
Ronan in the MCU was just a flaccid copy of the comics.

[Bodakane]

Shows how little thought is given to the script, and absolutely no thought given to future endeavors.
When they kill off all the villains, what then? Create new characters? That would be a rather novel approach.

Yup, if there's one thing that Marvel can;t do is plan for future movies. Are you serious?

[Al Gorefiend]

They did to Taskmaster what X-Men Origins did to Deadpool but overall solid movie

[Polyxo]

Okay, that's fair. I guess in my mind I think Marvel = MCU.



Other than the sexuality questioning part I agree with this.

A friend made an interesting observation: You get butt shots of ScarJo but nothing like that with Pugh, and even her close wasn't as skin tight as ScarJo's.

I've read a few reviews that pointed out how the MCU kind of did Black Widow dirty, and this disparity between ScarJo and Pugh in this film seems to suggest they never really figured out how best to course correct other than simply introduce a new character.



Yeah Pugh was an absolute homerun for me. I went in expecting to hate the character, but ended up absolutely loving Yelena. I hope we see a lot more of her in future MCU content.

Taskmaster... I like the comics version, but I have to admit I ended up really liking how the handled Taskmaster in this movie. I watched a Nando v Movies short about Taskmaster that was pretty interesting and you might appreciate it. Effectively, he points out that because of how they did Taskmaster, there's nothing stopping them from introducing another iteration of the character.

I really liked Pugh's character, I do have a minor complaint with her physicality/physical acting in that she didn't seem to move snappy or athletically enough in shots leading up to ones where a stunt person would take over. It made it kind of a jarring transition to me. Although I'm probably one of the only people to notice stuff like this, and I thought the rest of her acting/character was great.

- - - Updated - - -

See, I thought the bridge fight showed Taskmaster's "superpower" really well, but it was less obvious in future scenes. But I am curious what someone who doesn't know the comics would think of Taskmaster.



Thanks for the mansplain?

I'm specifically talking about what the movie presented us with, not the comics.



Lister is the stunt double. While that does mean you are technically correct about a male wearing the costume, you are pushing it a tad to be confused like "was the character supposed to be trans??"

There aren't enough female stunt doubles to go around in Hollywood, especially not one Olga Kurylenko's height. Also, with armor on like that, nobody should be able to tell. You can't tell if I'm a girl when I'm in hockey pads.

[Egomaniac]

There aren't enough female stunt doubles to go around in Hollywood, especially not one Olga Kurylenko's height. Also, with armor on like that, nobody should be able to tell. You can't tell if I'm a girl when I'm in hockey pads.

Olga Kurylenko is about 5'9. Tall for a woman...but not excessively so. If they were really looking for a female stunt double that matched her height..they could have found one.

And it was rather obvious that it was a man in the armour. Taskmaster wasn't wearing "hockey pads". The stunt double in question was Andy Lister...who also was a stunt double for Chris Evans. Which is probably one of the big reasons he got the job... since some of the moves Taskmaster performs were learned from watching footage of Steve Rogers in action. Why train a new stunt double to move like Captain America when you've already got one on tap?

[Polyxo]

Olga Kurylenko is about 5'9. Tall for a woman...but not excessively so. If they were really looking for a female stunt double that matched her height..they could have found one.

And it was rather obvious that it was a man in the armour. Taskmaster wasn't wearing "hockey pads". The stunt double in question was Andy Lister...who also was a stunt double for Chris Evans. Which is probably one of the big reasons he got the job... since some of the moves Taskmaster performs were learned from watching footage of Steve Rogers in action. Why train a new stunt double to move like Captain America when you've already got one on tap?

It's pretty hard for stunt coordinators to get ahold of female stunt workers of any dimension. It's not uncommon at all for male stunt workers to do stunt work for actresses because of the shortage. Also, the Taskmaster 'armor' is pretty comparable to hockey pads.