The Ongoing 2020 Election: Maricopa County Recount

[Masark]

I mean... we're having a crisis in this country where people don't trust machines to count ballots, and you think that the situation would be better if we relied on humans instead?

It's easier to compromise machines than thousands of people.

[Kaleredar]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...nting-machines

And Maricopa approved nearly $3M for new vote-counting machines since nobody knows what the hell Cyber Ninja's have been up to since they received the machines.

Really, this should come out of the state Republican Senators budgets/pay since they are the ones who authorized this audit and are ostensibly "overseeing" it, but of course it won't.

Man it would be nice if Republicans ever acted as fiscally conservative as they pretend to be.

I may be utterly misremembering this, but didn't the AZ democrats have a way to basically oppose or contest this whole "recount" happening but it would have cost the taxpayers somewhere in the realm of 1M to fight it, so they opted not to?

[Edge-]

It's easier to compromise machines than thousands of people.

Not when the people who don't trust the machines simultaneously believe in global conspiracies involving what would likely be tens of thousands of people, if not more.

[Breccia]

I may be utterly misremembering this, but didn't the AZ democrats have a way to basically oppose or contest this whole "recount" happening but it would have cost the taxpayers somewhere in the realm of 1M to fight it, so they opted not to?

From May:

The agreement orders Arizona Senate Republicans and Cyber Ninjas, which is run by a supporter of Trump, to allow independent elections experts to observe the process, take aggressive measures to secure personal voter information, turn over details about audit policies and procedures and make those documents public. If there is a breach of the agreement, Secretary of State Katie Hobbs, a Democrat, can take the company and the Senate GOP to court for breach of contract.

We've covered in this thread that, no, they're not doing this -- especially the bolded.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and the House has launched an investigation. Mostly, I think this is an excuse to
(a) have Cyber Ninjas dragged on camera and grilled under oath -- see above bolded, they could be in real trouble here if they admit they're not fulfilling their contract or if they lie and claim they are
(b) allow House GOP members to go on camera and say "I believe Cyber Ninjas is doing a good job" for when the audit is inevitably revealed to be filled with criminal fraud and those videos get used against them

"Surely the GOP members won't fall into that trap. I mean, you saw it coming and you're not even a pro."

I hope they do. I'd like to see their turn asking questions to become "Cyber Ninjas, do you love America?" and other noncommittal, useless stuff, refusing to say "I believe Cyber Ninjas is doing a good job" when handed the option -- because it's not true.

[szechuan]

The idiotic GOP Trumpers whining about the election yet again with Conspiracies and BS.

[Edge-]

The idiotic GOP Trumpers whining about the election yet again with Conspiracies and BS.

I thought the Senate Republican lady said they found tens of thousands of fake votes? What happened to those, I thought Cyber Ninjas was totes gonna dish the goods! Do they need to wait for the information to come back from the log cabin in the Montana woods?

[PhaelixWW]

I thought the Senate Republican lady said they found tens of thousands of fake votes? What happened to those, I thought Cyber Ninjas was totes gonna dish the goods! Do they need to wait for the information to come back from the log cabin in the Montana woods?

More importantly, weren't we told that this process was going to only take, like, two weeks... back in April?

[Breccia]

More importantly, weren't we told that this process was going to only take, like, two weeks... back in April?

Yes. Sorry @Edge- I didn't see what you were talking about.

Simply put, by now Cyber Ninjas must know they have no evidence of fraud and have three choices, all bad.
1) They come forward and say this honestly, and lose all their funding from the rabid fanbase.
2) They lie and say they have fraud, get called in by the House and get arrested.
3) They commit fraud to create fraud, and that's when the felonies roll in.

I offer no sympathy. They chose this.

[Elegiac]

Yes. Sorry @Edge- I didn't see what you were talking about.

Simply put, by now Cyber Ninjas must know they have no evidence of fraud and have three choices, all bad.
1) They come forward and say this honestly, and lose all their funding from the rabid fanbase.
2) They lie and say they have fraud, get called in by the House and get arrested.
3) They commit fraud to create fraud, and that's when the felonies roll in.

I offer no sympathy. They chose this.

Huh 2021 really is the year of fuck around and find out.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Yes. Sorry @Edge- I didn't see what you were talking about.

Simply put, by now Cyber Ninjas must know they have no evidence of fraud and have three choices, all bad.
1) They come forward and say this honestly, and lose all their funding from the rabid fanbase.
2) They lie and say they have fraud, get called in by the House and get arrested.
3) They commit fraud to create fraud, and that's when the felonies roll in.

I offer no sympathy. They chose this.

You forget that they chose the other option:

4) Go into the whole process knowing there wasn't significant fraud, and come up with a timeline to "check" that means they can milk as much money out of it as possible before they get shut down. Which the Republicans will do JUST before they'd have to report, so that Cyber Ninjas can say that they hadn't finished checking yet and the "Deep State" shut them down before they could find the good stuff.

Their supporters will eat this shit up.

[PhaelixWW]

You forget that they chose the other option:

4) Go into the whole process knowing there wasn't significant fraud, and come up with a timeline to "check" that means they can milk as much money out of it as possible before they get shut down. Which the Republicans will do JUST before they'd have to report, so that Cyber Ninjas can say that they hadn't finished checking yet and the "Deep State" shut them down before they could find the good stuff.

Their supporters will eat this shit up.

inb4 the inevitable: "The fact that we didn't find evidence of fraud is proof that there's a deliberate coverup!"

[Breccia]

Cyber Ninjas can say that they hadn't finished checking yet and the "Deep State" shut them down before they could find the good stuff.

I mean, maybe? But it's not really "Deep State" when the Arizona Senate can just wave the contract they signed. It will confuse the message of a dark, shadowy conspiracy when it was just Cyber Ninjas and an official government contract, signed in broad daylight.

Now, you could easily be right. Local sources report that Cyber Ninjas is now planning to go door-to-door, asking people who they voted for. You know what that sounds like to me? Stalling. Which you said they were going to do.

Of course, I'm going to add that Cyber Ninjas wants to go door-to-door and ask people how they voted -- a question that they know ahead of time that nobody's going to answer. Well the cultists will, but most won't. None of these people asked have any legal reason to answer, or to answer honestly. I'll also point out that the Republican plan to counter what I've seen described as Biden's door-to-door vaccination goons is...exactly the same thing. Lie, slam the door, say you have the legal right to refuse to answer, etc.

And I'm pretty sure "we will go door-to-door" wasn't part of the original contract. The "shadowy dark conspiracy Deep State" of the Arizona Senate will just say "no" again in broad daylight.

I guess give Cyber Ninjas some credit. If they are looking for ways to drag this out, they have them. But if they're looking for ways to say they're being blocked by the Deep State, they don't. Oh, and there's still a lawsuit to see their records, which they're refusing to hand over, which rather pokes a hole in the approach, but only to logical thinkers.

So, this was a good catch.

But it raises the followup question: if they don't find anything and blame the cat for their failures, what about their own donors? You know, the ones they refuse to tell anyone about? (Can't wait for the House to ask) Leading the rabid fanbase along is one thing, being paid to get results and then not getting results is another. If you donate anonymously, then sue for a refund, can you sue anonymously?

[Huehuecoyotl]

I mean, maybe? But it's not really "Deep State" when the Arizona Senate can just wave the contract they signed. It will confuse the message of a dark, shadowy conspiracy when it was just Cyber Ninjas and an official government contract, signed in broad daylight.

Now, you could easily be right. Local sources report that Cyber Ninjas is now planning to go door-to-door, asking people who they voted for. You know what that sounds like to me? Stalling. Which you said they were going to do.

Of course, I'm going to add that Cyber Ninjas wants to go door-to-door and ask people how they voted -- a question that they know ahead of time that nobody's going to answer. Well the cultists will, but most won't. None of these people asked have any legal reason to answer, or to answer honestly. I'll also point out that the Republican plan to counter what I've seen described as Biden's door-to-door vaccination goons is...exactly the same thing. Lie, slam the door, say you have the legal right to refuse to answer, etc.

And I'm pretty sure "we will go door-to-door" wasn't part of the original contract. The "shadowy dark conspiracy Deep State" of the Arizona Senate will just say "no" again in broad daylight.

I guess give Cyber Ninjas some credit. If they are looking for ways to drag this out, they have them. But if they're looking for ways to say they're being blocked by the Deep State, they don't. Oh, and there's still a lawsuit to see their records, which they're refusing to hand over, which rather pokes a hole in the approach, but only to logical thinkers.

So, this was a good catch.

But it raises the followup question: if they don't find anything and blame the cat for their failures, what about their own donors? You know, the ones they refuse to tell anyone about? (Can't wait for the House to ask) Leading the rabid fanbase along is one thing, being paid to get results and then not getting results is another. If you donate anonymously, then sue for a refund, can you sue anonymously?

Just to make it clear; I was never suggesting that this would put them in a position to reasonably say that the deep state shut them down. But the reasonable among us wouldn't be where that message was directed anyway. To the average Trumpster simply saying "we're not allowed to investigate anymore" followed by "we were shut down" would be all they need to say. We're talking about people that will swallow any loony theory, regardless of the mental gymnastics requireed.

[Breccia]

I was never suggesting that this would put them in a position to reasonably say that the deep state shut them down.

Oh, of course not That ship has sailed. Of course, there is one group for which "reasonably" is pretty important: courtrooms. Cyber Ninjas needs to be careful what they say/do because they're between the state, and their unlisted shadow donors, both of whom are not likely to accept a shrug and a Price is Right sad trombone sound as the end of this.

[Edge-]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arizona...eport-results/

Contractors hired by Arizona Senate Republicans to oversee a partisan review of the 2020 election said Thursday that they don't have enough information yet to complete their report, and they want legislators to subpoena more records and survey tens of thousands of voters at home.

Looks like we may end up with audit related blue balls, Cyber Ninjas can't complete their audit because they don't have "enough information". Wonder how many more millions AZ Senate Republicans will blow on this malarky.

[pathora44]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arizona...eport-results/



Looks like we may end up with audit related blue balls, Cyber Ninjas can't complete their audit because they don't have "enough information". Wonder how many more millions AZ Senate Republicans will blow on this malarky.

My favorite part is "We need to break Federal voting laws so we can continue to grift idiot donors for all of their money" not realizing that they would be breaking Federal voting laws and guess who isn't in charge anymore. They don't have the Cheetos wanna be despot in power anymore who would gladly look the other way for those who kiss his feet.

- - - Updated - - -

Local sources report that Cyber Ninjas is now planning to go door-to-door, asking people who they voted for. You know what that sounds like to me? Stalling. Which you said they were going to do.

Ya it could definitely be a stalling tactic the only other problem is that if they start going door to door to canvas voters the Federal government has already said this could break Federal laws against voter intimidation. Are they really stupid enough to possibly invoke the DOJ when they have lost any friends they once had.
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/06/99424...-audit-recount

[beanman12345]

Oh, of course not That ship has sailed. Of course, there is one group for which "reasonably" is pretty important: courtrooms. Cyber Ninjas needs to be careful what they say/do because they're between the state, and their unlisted shadow donors, both of whom are not likely to accept a shrug and a Price is Right sad trombone sound as the end of this.

The ship on needing to be careful what they say is long gone. Everything about this, the senate's involvement etc etc everything was court ordered yesterday to be public disclosure.

[Breccia]

The AP reports on voter fraud found by AZ election officials in the 2020 election.

"Yeah! Now we're talking! MAGA!"

182 cases of potential fraud were found.

"Yeah! Wait, what? Trump needs 11,000 or so to win the state."

Sorry, but only 182 potential cases were reported.

"Still that's a lot of...wait, potential?"

Yeah, of those, four were referred to criminal cases.

"Well even four...wait, cases?"

No convictions yet.

"But surely many Democrats' votes were counted twice!"

No votes at all were counted twice.

"Still, 182 is a big number indeed!"

There were three million votes cast. So, no, it wasn't.

"So how many of the 182 cases are from Maricopa?"

One. Most are from Tuscon. Well, Pima County, but basically Tuscon.

Most of the 182 cases were people attempting to vote twice, such as once by mail and once in person. Considering the aged population of Tuscon and the fact that 2020 was a COVID year, it's possible a lot of these were simple mistakes.

"No no no! Voting once by mail, then voting in person is fraud! Why, can you imagine what Trump would say about that?"

I don't have to, I have a quote.

Let them send it in and let them go vote. And if the system is as good as they say it is, then obviously they won’t be able to vote

-- Trump, Sept 2020, on purpose

This might be part of why most of the 182 people weren't charged. Of the four that were, @Edge- has already posted about one or two of them, Trump supporters of course. There's a smattering of listed issues, such as people voting for their dead relatives or spouses.

Simply put, even in the strangest of circumstances (Trump encouraging people to vote twice during a pandemic he caused) voter irregularities are rare and intentional fraud nearly nonexistent. Cyber Ninjas will not literally find four orders of magnitude more than these.

AZ GOP Senators are expected to back cautiously away from this. (The AP mentioned one of them who was talking shit in May, then stopped returning the AP's calls after this finding) Trump has already dismissed it as, you guessed it, Fake News, and promised the real numbers will arrive shortly. By "shortly" of course, he means Aug 12 when he's reinstated, /sarcasm.

There is no grand scale voter fraud. We've looked, this year far more than most. And this isn't Bigfoot, where we can claim Bigfoot was just hiding. You can't cast an invisible vote. In 2016 AZ found 0, in 2018 they found one, and in 2020 they found four criminal cases. Is four more than one? Yes. Is four enough to bring in a conspiracy-theory-spamming rabid fanbase cult group to find the remaining 10,000+ fraudulent votes needed to swing the election (if it hadn't already been certified)? Not reasonably, no.

I look forward to hearing how Cyber Ninjas will spin "we didn't find anything" into "therefore there was mass voter fraud". I really am. I'm writing up a new D&D campaign and could use some inspiration for the LE rogue/ranger mafia for when the party's levels 3 through 5.

[Fuiking]

The AP reports on voter fraud found by AZ election officials in the 2020 election.

"Yeah! Now we're talking! MAGA!"

182 cases of potential fraud were found.

"Yeah! Wait, what? Trump needs 11,000 or so to win the state."

Sorry, but only 182 potential cases were reported.

"Still that's a lot of...wait, potential?"

Yeah, of those, four were referred to criminal cases.

"Well even four...wait, cases?"

No convictions yet.

"But surely many Democrats' votes were counted twice!"

No votes at all were counted twice.

"Still, 182 is a big number indeed!"

There were three million votes cast. So, no, it wasn't.

"So how many of the 182 cases are from Maricopa?"

One. Most are from Tuscon. Well, Pima County, but basically Tuscon.

Most of the 182 cases were people attempting to vote twice, such as once by mail and once in person. Considering the aged population of Tuscon and the fact that 2020 was a COVID year, it's possible a lot of these were simple mistakes.

"No no no! Voting once by mail, then voting in person is fraud! Why, can you imagine what Trump would say about that?"

I don't have to, I have a quote.


-- Trump, Sept 2020, on purpose

This might be part of why most of the 182 people weren't charged. Of the four that were, @Edge- has already posted about one or two of them, Trump supporters of course. There's a smattering of listed issues, such as people voting for their dead relatives or spouses.

Simply put, even in the strangest of circumstances (Trump encouraging people to vote twice during a pandemic he caused) voter irregularities are rare and intentional fraud nearly nonexistent. Cyber Ninjas will not literally find four orders of magnitude more than these.

AZ GOP Senators are expected to back cautiously away from this. (The AP mentioned one of them who was talking shit in May, then stopped returning the AP's calls after this finding) Trump has already dismissed it as, you guessed it, Fake News, and promised the real numbers will arrive shortly. By "shortly" of course, he means Aug 12 when he's reinstated, /sarcasm.

There is no grand scale voter fraud. We've looked, this year far more than most. And this isn't Bigfoot, where we can claim Bigfoot was just hiding. You can't cast an invisible vote. In 2016 AZ found 0, in 2018 they found one, and in 2020 they found four criminal cases. Is four more than one? Yes. Is four enough to bring in a conspiracy-theory-spamming rabid fanbase cult group to find the remaining 10,000+ fraudulent votes needed to swing the election (if it hadn't already been certified)? Not reasonably, no.

I look forward to hearing how Cyber Ninjas will spin "we didn't find anything" into "therefore there was mass voter fraud". I really am. I'm writing up a new D&D campaign and could use some inspiration for the LE rogue/ranger mafia for when the party's levels 3 through 5.

only way he gets to be president 12 august is if he declares his personal shit golf course an independant nation. Which would be promptly invaded...Or if he gets to Skane, and declares that an independant nation.. im not sure if Denmark or Sweden wants that back. However I will invade. I want Skane.

[Ivanstone]

Yeah, of those, four were referred to criminal cases.

How many of those involved stealing the vote from murdered relative?!?!?!?!