Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Raetary]

So Danuser is retconning cosmology to boost his own ego? Thanks, but this is so stupid and completely unnecessary.

But they are not retconing anything?
It's literally just the same chart but with spheres shuffled around.

One's just of Azerothian origin, the other from the Brokers.

[Vakir]

But they are not retconing anything?
It's literally just the same chart but with spheres shuffled around.

The idea is the implication that Life and Death are the foremost forces in the cosmos after stating the Light and Void were.

The idea could be as posited by @Kiivar86 that everyone has their own biases or perspective on what would be the "most" important (with denizens of Life and Death believing themselves in-universe for them to be the most critical or fundamental)...but I can't fully trust that with how much every other thing in the story has been completely become a hanger-on of Zovaal via asspull rather than its own thing. I'd like to think so.

It also doesn't hold up to the same idea. If the Chronicle was written from the POV of the Titans (even though it has freaking third person narration...) they'd have put Order and Chaos as the most fundamental blocks and not Light and Shadow. They were evidently educated enough not to. It just makes Death inhabitants seem egotistical and short-sighted then.

[Ivarr]

Do we even know what caused the shut down in the first place yet?

We don't.

I think it wasn't able to process the soul of Arthas.

[Vakir]

We don't.

I think it wasn't able to process the soul of Arthas.

It happened late in Legion, so it couldn't be that.

[Revamp Man]

I don't really see it that way at all.

I see it more as zantheus1993 said. And probably poking a bit of fun at how Blizzard put forward the first cosmology map.

Is it really so strange that different groups would put themselves central to a map?

Though there are some interesting movements of groups. Air for example is now paired with Light.

Actually it seems that the elements aren’t paired with cosmic forces in the new chart
Otherwise water is void and life

Again I like this actually
Because it gives the possibility that the elemental planes are lesser forces unrelated

The lore is still…..strange

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We don't.

I think it wasn't able to process the soul of Arthas.

I mean you aren’t wrong
He got yeeted into the maw and not taken to her though…..

I still stick by the idea that it was the soul of Argus

She was created from the core of Zovaal and I am almost certain that he is a keeper style being for the first one of death which would be Argus
“But he’s a titan”
I mean he was a world soul
He was also blue and chained and had the power to unmake everything according to his lore in the encounter journal
Azeroth is a “unique world soul” and I think Argus is as well

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We don't.

I think it wasn't able to process the soul of Arthas.

I mean you aren’t wrong
He got yeeted into the maw and not taken to her though…..

I still stick by the idea that it was the soul of Argus

She was created from the core of Zovaal and I am almost certain that he is a keeper style being for the first one of death which would be Argus
“But he’s a titan”
I mean he was a world soul
He was also blue and chained and had the power to unmake everything according to his lore in the encounter journal
Azeroth is a “unique world soul” and I think Argus is as well

[Raetary]

I mean you aren’t wrong
He got yeeted into the maw and not taken to her though…..

Arthas getting kicked into the Maw happened years before the Arbiter went on stand-by mode.

It couldn't be him, as he was already in the Maw when it happened.

[huth]

Until we get more book info, this is probably the correct answer. I am actually really excited to see what they've got in store for us, it's been a while since we've got a chronicle-level book.

Given how the brokers actually seem to believe that Death is the center of all, it certainly would make sense. Grimoire is explicitly from their view, after all.

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Arthas getting kicked into the Maw happened years before the Arbiter went on stand-by mode.

It couldn't be him, as he was already in the Maw when it happened.

For that matter, he didn't even get to the Arbiter, so it can't have been him.

[Revamp Man]

Arthas getting kicked into the Maw happened years before the Arbiter went on stand-by mode.

It couldn't be him, as he was already in the Maw when it happened.

Literally the next sentence in my post dude

The not wrong part is about her not being able to judge his soul which she couldn’t because he got dropped like a hunter in 9.1

[ExiHext]

*snip*

You are mixing up a lot of stuff here that doesn't make sense. Apart from the Arthas shenanigans, Zovaal isn't "keeper style", he is "titan style" (he even is called "brother" bei the other Eternal Ones), Argus was introduced to us as another titan, so as long as that isn't retconned, he is a being of order and not of death. If anyone is "death keeper" level, it's Helya or Mueh'zala with the latter already being a loa, but they seem to be on "keeper powerlevel"
Argus and Azeroth are world souls of titans that seem to be more powerful than our existing titans as far as we are told.

[Nyel]

Anyone here really doubting that Sylvanas will be the new Arbiter?

[therumblings]

Anyone here really doubting that Sylvanas will be the new Arbiter?

Me. It's too bold of a move from blizzard. Redeeming Sylvanas, that's at least in the realm of possibility, but making her the arbiter of every mortal soul? that's just too much fan fiction and special treatment, the backlash would be insane.

[Sondrelk]

Me. It's too bold of a move from blizzard. Redeeming Sylvanas, that's at least in the realm of possibility, but making her the arbiter of every mortal soul? that's just too much fan fiction and special treatment, the backlash would be insane.

Depends really. Her entire deal is about being free to choose her own actions, and being forced to take a job where all she does it sit in one place and judge souls to afterlives forever might be seen as punishment.

Though I do doubt it simple because I cannot imagine she has the ability to judge souls fairly.

[therumblings]

Depends really. Her entire deal is about being free to choose her own actions, and being forced to take a job where all she does it sit in one place and judge souls to afterlives forever might be seen as punishment.

Though I do doubt it simple because I cannot imagine she has the ability to judge souls fairly.

There is no logical lore reason for it to make sense other than as punishment, but just imagine the player backlash. The backlash was insane during Teldrassil, but making her the Arbiter would top that reaction easily.

[Kiivar86]

If it'll take Sylvanas out of the story, I'll take it at this point.

[therumblings]

If it'll take Sylvanas out of the story, I'll take it at this point.

Is that really worth it? Any person in the entire universe who dies will be judged by Sylvanas. That sounds absolutely horrific.

[ExiHext]

This absolutely collides with "I will never serve" and ain't gonna happen.

[Raetary]

This absolutely collides with "I will never serve" and ain't gonna happen.

She's been colliding with herself for quite a while now, so this doesn't mean much.

[AngerFork]

Me. It's too bold of a move from blizzard. Redeeming Sylvanas, that's at least in the realm of possibility, but making her the arbiter of every mortal soul? that's just too much fan fiction and special treatment, the backlash would be insane.

Agreed in part. I don't really think redeeming Sylvanas should be in the realm of possibility, but as we've seen Blizz clearly disagrees with me on that. I don't think they'd go as far as to make her the Arbiter though. That takes her away from marketing & would have a ton of backlash.

Honestly, I think she's coming back from the Shadowlands with us as a redeemed character and might be giving us quests as soon as 9.2. She'll probably be given the Thrall treatment where she'll be a background character for a bit until the player base isn't as against her, but I don't think her missing soul fragment would've been returned if Blizz didn't have long term plans for her.

[Kiivar86]

Is that really worth it? Any person in the entire universe who dies will be judged by Sylvanas. That sounds absolutely horrific.

Not ideal but I would think she'd see at as penance of some sort.

I would prefer her just dead but again I'll take whatever removes her from the story proper.

[Nagawithlegs]

Anyone notice that the Order sign on the Shadowlands chart is literally the symbol on the Tazavesh disc glider?

Maybe this is stealth confirming that Brokers are some titanic/Arcane race.