Sanctum of Domination Race to World First

[Jabakaga]

Blizzard does not have to nerf anything to make it killable in week 1, most raids survive the first reset and anything beyond might require a nerf. I'm seeing a lot of hypocrisy suddenly, people that did not want the boss to die first reset but then suddenly it should. Make up your mind!

Both guilds have said the extra 5% is doable THIS reset and I'll take their word over anyone else here.



They never were either, even on the same boss between guilds. Some guilds chain pull and others take a 10 min discussion between pulls, it means nothing. I'd rather look at how long an end boss survived (assuming killable) instead.

Mhm just like Method used or still are doing not sure they at least always did have a long strat chat between pulls while Limit just kept practicing on the boss.

[Sneek]

the funniest reality would be that the boss bugged and didn't die at 50% when it should have.

https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...rised/h5psurv/

i would love for this to happen, the shitstorm would be awesome to read

[chronia]

1. If it is really 45%... why did they do it that stupid way? Why not increase her overall HP on mythic and make her 'die' at 50%?

They want P3 to be the most difficult and tightly tuned i expect. With this change they basicly only extend P3, if you up the overall HP, some of that will affect P1 / P2, unless they would also rebalance the whole fight in terms of timings and for example change the P1 end percentage.

While with just moving the encounter end percentage they basicly have a knob to exactly dail in the tuning for the last phase.

[MrDaemon]

1. If it is really 45%... why did they do it that stupid way? Why not increase her overall HP on mythic and make her 'die' at 50%?
2. Hopefully any guild will finish her before reset... if not US will have basically free win due early start. I'd probably quit if i were Echo member if that will be a case.
3. Very underwhelming race/raid this time imho. Another soak/immunity/increase raid movement speed fiesta. Atleast good to see many guilds very close to each other.
4. I wish they will find a way to finally hide stuff from datamining (at least last boss) of each tier.
5. I still wonder why Blizzard won't make this event their own official one. That would be great promotion of the game with very low cost.



I doubt it.
Blizzard usually watch these guilds live and would instantly contact them if that was a case.

1. Either they are stupid or if 45% was done last minute, they didnt want to increase hp pool so people wont notice. Maybe they didnt expect KT to de so fast with cheese strat.
2. Limit pulls are not very good. They still need to go through a ton of hp to kill her. She will die after reset but its still wont be easy fight. I also hope blizzard fixes KT so they dont just go through him instantly.
4. Its almost impossible to hide stuff from datamining. Only option would be to download boss data just before your first pull.
5. Because then they would have to invest money into it. This way they get same marketing just for no cost on their side.

[Ludek]

5. I still wonder why Blizzard won't make this event their own official one. That would be great promotion of the game with very low cost.

Then Blizz would need to actually make a world wide raid release and at least first reset, which they do not want to do.

Also they won't do this because having officially supported race would mean it has to be more or less devoid of any external intervention, to be as fair as possible.
So no split runs with the guild's zealots, no clearing AH on different realms for BoE and so on.

Ofc it can be done, for example via a tournament realm, but this removes the only interesting part of the race itself - the wonky stuff guilds need to do to actually prepare.

[Clozer]

They probably dont hotfix, as devs are not working, but they have people watching the race and being able to contact.

Do you think Gamemasters are not working just because it is Sunday?

I'm sorry to tell you, but if the boss is bugged and the guilds can't progress - a gamemaster won't be able to do anything.

[Queendom]

1. If it is really 45%... why did they do it that stupid way? Why not increase her overall HP on mythic and make her 'die' at 50%?
2. Hopefully any guild will finish her before reset... if not US will have basically free win due early start. I'd probably quit if i were Echo member if that will be a case.
3. Very underwhelming race/raid this time imho. Another soak/immunity/increase raid movement speed fiesta. Atleast good to see many guilds very close to each other.
4. I wish they will find a way to finally hide stuff from datamining (at least last boss) of each tier.
5. I still wonder why Blizzard won't make this event their own official one. That would be great promotion of the game with very low cost.

1) in abscence of "secret phase" or any differences between NM/HC besides numbers, this is probably the only solution for "secret phase" they came up with
2) the same thing can be said about every other WF race
3) same as 2)
4) that's virtually impossible with the current tech levels
5) pepeLaugh

[Ultimatt]

Even better, if BDGG puts in some long hours tomorrow and can consistently get to the last platform in decent shape, they could conceivable come in second, or even first if Limit has a bad reset day. Long shot but man that would be hilarious.

BDGG actually puts a bit of pressure on limit, particularly if they get straight into their reclear and don't get stuck. Limit would probably need to skip heroic splits too and assume vault and reclear loot is enough. There might still be some drama on reset day.

[Azerate]

Just popping in here to remind everyone about a basic truth:

Blizzard has no obligation, nor does it make sense, to tune a fight exactly so that it's possible to defeat it in the first week of it being available. It actually makes perfect sense that you should have to farm mythic gear for multiple weeks in order to be able to reach the dps check. It's the highest difficulty of a raid in a MMORPG. A genre that is supposed to be based on gear progression. In fact, instead of crazily hard mechanics, it should have much more "gear gating" to award consistency and weekly gameplay.

Also, as a bonus factoid, for those who don't seem to know how the world works, because I'm seeing some posts about this as well:

A rapist being acquitted, or his case not going to court does not mean he's innocent. It just means there's one more rapist who managed to escape justice, as many of them do. If you start defending molesters or rapists just because they weren't sent to prison, you lose any kind of credibility in normal people's eyes.

[Makabreska]

5. I still wonder why Blizzard won't make this event their own official one. That would be great promotion of the game with very low cost.

Because then Blizz would have to make clear rules. They would have to implement a global launch (moving the usual maintenance times and affecting entire playerbase of at least one region) and make clear what is, and what isn't an exploit, something that has been very vague for decades now.

[Otrew]

Boss probably goin to before reset, a lot of people are reporting boss hitting less then 49.7% in normal after she cast her last skill and wiping so maybe the 45% is not true.

[Taquito]

Boss probably goin to before reset, a lot of people are reporting boss hitting less then 49.7% in normal after she cast her last skill and wiping so maybe the 45% is not true.

This happened to my guild on Sylvanas NM first week.

Raid size 22 for both reports.

Random kill taken from warcraftlogs with longest kill and same raid size:


My guild wipe:


Result?
Random guild gets de kill, my guild wipes.

Blizzard Support?

This is Game Master --------. Looks like there's a situation around our recent raid. Let's clear that up.

Currently I'm not seeing any other reports or mentions of this. And unfortunately there wasn't anything showing up in the logs that appears to be a bug or similar. So for now I've submit a report on my end. Please do submit an ingame bug report on your side too.That grabs ingame data that Customer Support doesn't have access to. It's then sent directly to the Developers and QA team to make use of.

[Revamp Man]

Just popping in here to remind everyone about a basic truth:

Blizzard has no obligation, nor does it make sense, to tune a fight exactly so that it's possible to defeat it in the first week of it being available. It actually makes perfect sense that you should have to farm mythic gear for multiple weeks in order to be able to reach the dps check. It's the highest difficulty of a raid in a MMORPG. A genre that is supposed to be based on gear progression. In fact, instead of crazily hard mechanics, it should have much more "gear gating" to award consistency and weekly gameplay.

Also, as a bonus factoid, for those who don't seem to know how the world works, because I'm seeing some posts about this as well:

A rapist being acquitted, or his case not going to court does not mean he's innocent. It just means there's one more rapist who managed to escape justice, as many of them do. If you start defending molesters or rapists just because they weren't sent to prison, you lose any kind of credibility in normal people's eyes.

the mythic raid isnt clearable on week one for any normal guild
the ones that participate in the race are the kind of player that blizz keeps trying to kneecap but they always find a way around it

as for the josh thing
no body no crime
hes a fucking creeper though

[Mendzia]

They want P3 to be the most difficult and tightly tuned i expect. With this change they basicly only extend P3, if you up the overall HP, some of that will affect P1 / P2, unless they would also rebalance the whole fight in terms of timings and for example change the P1 end percentage.

While with just moving the encounter end percentage they basicly have a knob to exactly dail in the tuning for the last phase.

Good point.
Did not think about it.

2. Limit pulls are not very good. They still need to go through a ton of hp to kill her. She will die after reset but its still wont be easy fight. I also hope blizzard fixes KT so they dont just go through him instantly.

They still got 2 days to petfectly learn the fight before reset... with new gear it would take less than 10 pulls imho.

4. Its almost impossible to hide stuff from datamining. Only option would be to download boss data just before your first pull.

4) that's virtually impossible with the current tech levels

... but at the same time we somehow we still do not know if there is secret phase.
I think there should be a way to do it properly...

5. Because then they would have to invest money into it. This way they get same marketing just for no cost on their side.

And meanwhile they still invest money in arena tournaments and MDI with fraction of RWF viewerbase...

Because then Blizz would have to make clear rules. They would have to implement a global launch (moving the usual maintenance times and affecting entire playerbase of at least one region) and make clear what is, and what isn't an exploit, something that has been vary vague for decades now.

That is a fair point i guess.

[Revamp Man]

Because then Blizz would have to make clear rules. They would have to implement a global launch (moving the usual maintenance times and affecting entire playerbase of at least one region) and make clear what is, and what isn't an exploit, something that has been very vague for decades now.

a blizzard sponsored race would be terrible

now speed races are fun for blizzcon like the mdi is but the WF race nah

[KaPe]

the mythic raid isnt clearable on week one for any normal guild
the ones that participate in the race are the kind of player that blizz keeps trying to kneecap but they always find a way around it

People seem to "forget" that top guilds raid as much in a single day as "normal" CE guild raid in a week/two weeks. One reset for them is a like two months worth of raids. That's on top of crazy amount of splits which bumps their ilvl to a level far higher than usual - especially now, with domination sockets. And class stacking far beyond what anyone else can do. Tuning against such insanity requires bosses to be broken and nerfed during progress, after the top has already wipes 100+ times - which is exactly what happened with the likes of KJ, Azshara and even Jaina's movement patterns.

[Revamp Man]

People seem to "forget" that top guilds raid as much in a single day as "normal" CE guild raid in a week/two weeks. One reset for them is a like two months worth of raids. That's on top of crazy amount of splits which bumps their ilvl to a level far higher than usual - especially now, with domination sockets. And class stacking far beyond what anyone else can do. Tuning against such insanity requires bosses to be broken and nerfed during progress, after the top has already wipes 100+ times - which is exactly what happened with the likes of KJ, Azshara and even Jaina's movement patterns.

these world first guilds were clearing heroic right away and ignoring normal
i feel like blizzard is actually learning that they can have the super tough bosses for the race and as soon as like 10 people finish it they nerf it by 10%

these guys are able to kill bosses that require your average players another 20 ilvls and BiS gear and socket sets

[Confucius]

Preach drawing diagrams again of possible outcomes

[DeadlyAccuracy]

People seem to "forget" that top guilds raid as much in a single day as "normal" CE guild raid in a week/two weeks. One reset for them is a like two months worth of raids. That's on top of crazy amount of splits which bumps their ilvl to a level far higher than usual - especially now, with domination sockets. And class stacking far beyond what anyone else can do. Tuning against such insanity requires bosses to be broken and nerfed during progress, after the top has already wipes 100+ times - which is exactly what happened with the likes of KJ, Azshara and even Jaina's movement patterns.

Most people don't "forget" anything; they either lack the basic insight to go through that thought process, or worse, they choose to conveniently ignore these facts in order to bitch and moan about something, anything.

these guys are able to kill bosses that require your average players another 20 ilvls and BiS gear and socket sets

With the amounts of time, resources and coaching that they invest, they better perform at least at those standards. Sure, they are talented gamers, but there are many more people out there with the potential to perform at the same or higher standard, but do not do so due to circumstances or lack of sufficient motivation.

[AidanJLowe]

My personal view is I think it's a silly move to make mythic 45%. It's one of the few bosses that are defeated at a % rather than at zero so yea the information was on raider.io but hasn't really been confirmed until yesterday.

All these arguments from viewers that end of tier bosses shouldn't die before x amount of pulls or in the 1st week and is designed to follow gear progression, you do realise these WF raiders min/max to the fullest and are not your typical player. Even though Limit will probably win it Echo mechanically should of gotten it yesterday, they got like 4 attempts out of 5 around 49.6-51.7%, their composition was solid and player performance sound to kill it if it was 50%.

Now all guilds have to think about their comp again and go sweatlords to do more splits, m+ spam etc and whatever they do. If Echo & Limit don't think they can produce that extra 5% now currently by the time Sylvanas is defeated they'll probably be 10 guilds working on her or more. The extra 5% doesn't increase it's difficulty just prolongs the fight more, mechanically the guilds have seen all their is to see and Echo at least got their strat down to perfection, very much doubt they'll be any other phase Echo are popping heroism at pull and 13 minutes, no way it's a 17-20 minute fight with another phase.

Poor show from Blizzard imo.