9.1: was doubling down on the Maw a good idea?

[GreenJesus]

Depends, are you playing to play or are you playing to be rewarded?

I grind through current content to play with friends and guild mates, with gear just being a gateway to harder stuff. If I didn't have them I probably wouldn't bother with WoW at all, and haven't in the past.

I got to 8/10m without any of the maw gems. A lot in my guild also didn't bother.

[rrayy]

Sense of Community
Challenging Dungeons
Great Raids
Arena PvP is enjoyable
Getting loot feels good knowing there's no 'better' version of it at higher Mythic+
Profession Crafting is actually useful
Beautiful zones, good quest writing

Shadowlands has great zones but I always feel like it's so claustrophobic at times, so much clutter. More isn't always better.
I loved Bastion, open fields made it feel sort of angelic but the furrythemed zone is boring and cluttered.

Comparing the stories wouldn't make sense, somewhere Blizzard decided that the story needed to progress without player agency. You're not important, you're just a sidequest while Sylvannas and the Jailer take center stage. In TBC, you're also a no named player but you're one of the champions who imprisons Illidan and it makes you feel like you achieved that with a slow build up.

The dungeons and raids are in no way ghreat or challenging. They are boring and tedious. ANd there is no sense of community. People are just as anti-social in TBC Classic as they are with retail.Finally, to say we are playuers in retail with no agency when we are the Maw Walker is ludicrous.

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The Maw sucks, Korthia sucks, Torghast sucks.

Nobody likes these areas, or the associated systems.

I do, so you are automatically wrong.

People really need to stop making posts like this because you will be automatically wrong and it is a massive projection of opinion.

[erifwodahs]

TBC > Retail. I logged in to try the new stuff and lasted a whole 13 minutes.

Then went back to TBC,

no matter how good/bad content is, 13 minutes to draw your conclusion is like painting a portrait in 13mins.

[Archmage Alodi]

Is that right? Good news!!

Joined a couple of raids for tormentors and didn't need to zone back in.

[Schizoide]

That helps a lot. I noticed an actual WQ in the Maw this morning too, an elite one in the NE near the world boss-- would need to group for that or it'd take forever.

They should have hotfixed this in, like, immediately after release.

[sponge5307]

Bad Idea. Before I cold go in and get out in 20mins now it takes a good 45+mins coz I have to kill every single mob, rescure every soul, breaks every jar, do very puzzle.
Is stupid and dumb. I don't want to spend more time in Torghast! I want to get in and out. Also some class just boring to do in in there. My hunter for example doesn't have any OP and fun anima power to play with. Best spec to go in there is BM and you still have to pull carefully. Pull to much and your pet can't handle it. Pretty much the Misdirect anmia is a must. It can be done just slow and boring. By the end of just one wing I don't want to play anymore. On my DH and Druid is a totoally different story. Is more fun and there is more interesting and OP anima power to use.

I feel like they made the change and force people to spent more time in it for their online metric. And to force people do it in groups as some class are having issue soloing the place and been complaing about it. Well I still won't party up in there. Rather solo it once I get my lego crafted I am never going in there again.

[FarmerEd]

My only issue is that the maw and Korthia are on separate channels, so I don't get the callouts from the other zone

[Meow]

The Maw is authentically the worst in terms of lore and gameplay. Play there to torture yourself.

[DeltrusDisc]

Basically what @Razion put so eloquently.

Boring response. I wanted to hear your response. I liked the Maw initially but now I can't even imagine going back to WoW during SL.

[darklogrus]

I wouldnt say they double down on the Maw, I think they just used the Maws empty ( we never bother to design areas) to focus on stuff that could never have fit into that super mini Korthia..

[Trumpcat]

No, there's a reason why X.1 patches don't fix the problems in X.0, the first patch is in development before the expansion even releases. There's no time to do more than band-aids. It is what it is.

Exactly. You can't turn around the development direction and content at 9.1. At best they insert band aids for the worse issues.

[Zka]

TBC > Retail. I logged in to try the new stuff and lasted a whole 13 minutes.
Then went back to TBC,

I salute you for having the mental fortitude to spend 13 mins in retail.

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What in TBC is any better?

Proper community
Proper gear progression
Crafting makes sense and gold
No timegates
No pointless super boring chore systems that should have been a talent point
Somewhat proper pve content instead of the audiovisually overloaded, overly complex arcade game bullshit
You can fly immediately when hitting max level without first waiting a few patches
Distinct classes, abilities and specs instead of overly uniformized and standardized ones

[Jessicka]

No, but the decision was probably made long before launch and they realised everyone hates the place.

[Djuntas]

Problem now a days it seems Blizzard is tied to the story for also delivering content - I haven't given a fuck about the story for real since Warcraft 3 or WOTLK. Im sorry but I dont care about what they do for lore reasons.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Meh, is about what I have to say about Korthia, but it did give us use of normal mounts.

I got back, got flying, cursed everything and everyone until I realized that you can skip the Korthia questlines and shit once you've completed it on your main. I'll get the horse whilst there are still tons of groups looking out for it, then I'll either stop playing again or focus entirely on goldmaking. Korthia is no Isle of Thunder or Timeless Isle, for sure.

[Mascotte]

I salute you for having the mental fortitude to spend 13 mins in retail.

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No timegates

You know Sunwell basically started timegating content right?

[Ivarr]

Problem now a days it seems Blizzard is tied to the story for also delivering content - I haven't given a fuck about the story for real since Warcraft 3 or WOTLK. Im sorry but I dont care about what they do for lore reasons.

They dig this hole for themselves by putting the fate of the entire world in the hands within this lore. When the fate of the world is at stake you can't just start sidetracking into faction struggles or personal stories.

Legion, Cataclysm also had this problem. Pandaria, WoD and BfA at least initially didn't have a clear big existential threat to everything, so the story could divulge into the more complex and personal stories.

That's the one thing I wish the writers would understand. Massive stakes aren't the same as meaningful stakes.

[Osmeric]

You know Sunwell basically started timegating content right?

Almost no one did Sunwell, so it didn't matter.

[Oneirophobia]

In terms of story it made sense that The Maw would be so hopeless and dreary and relatively difficult compared to the rest of the open SL world, while being this terrible place you're basically forced out of or killed in if you spent so long there.

But for gameplay feel... The Maw was, is, just awful. Things like not being able to mount, or fly even, being insta-killed or locked down, the place just LOOKING depressing as all hell, losing things you've earned when you die here and then having to go through the chore of getting it back... there's a lot that goes into the experience feeling every bit as terrible as it's intended to. Intending a terrible experience doesn't make it suddenly genius, or good, it just makes it feel bad - surprising no one. What that results in is people not wanting to spend any time there playing the content. So it's no surprise that The Maw can feel like a bad idea to invest resources in... it's just a bad place to be by design. To fix it it basically has to be entirely redone, which at that point begs the question, "why not anywhere else, then?"

The idea and fantasy of an immersively dreading experience may have been appealing to someone. But someone should have spoken up and said, "but, yo, won't that just not be fun, then?" Ambition and dreams are easy to cloud what should be obvious. "Is this fun?" should be of paramount importance. This is at the end of the day entertainment, and if the experience isn't entertaining somehow then it failed its major function.

I really think the Maw is one of those things where it'll only be viewed positively in hindsight. Nobody wants to go to the Maw and do stuff (prior to all the non-mounting, etc. annoyances) but I think in several expansions it will be looked back on as "oh it was different and the theme was communicated well by how punishing it was". Currently? No thanks I'd rather go elsewhere.

[czarek]

Sense of Community
Challenging Dungeons
Great Raids
Arena PvP is enjoyable
Getting loot feels good knowing there's no 'better' version of it at higher Mythic+
Profession Crafting is actually useful
Beautiful zones, good quest writing

Shadowlands has great zones but I always feel like it's so claustrophobic at times, so much clutter. More isn't always better.
I loved Bastion, open fields made it feel sort of angelic but the furrythemed zone is boring and cluttered.

Comparing the stories wouldn't make sense, somewhere Blizzard decided that the story needed to progress without player agency. You're not important, you're just a sidequest while Sylvannas and the Jailer take center stage. In TBC, you're also a no named player but you're one of the champions who imprisons Illidan and it makes you feel like you achieved that with a slow build up.

Raids half n half imo. Some are good some feels like clunky and infinished.
PVP yes
Loot yes
Professions i do like both tbc and retail
Zones half n half. Some were just unfinished and bad just like blades edge mountaints.
Lore is juicy. Thats yes.

Ok. So the Maw. Oh that trash bin. No its just bad. I dont like it. Idea was good but implementation is not really succesfull. I dont like it.