As someone who played a prot Paladin in TBC, having to carry normal tank gear, fire resist gear (Illidan adds), a max avoidance set (OTing the rogue on Council) and gear for Holy, I can tell you that I had about 3 spare bag slots for most of the game until Wrath. Wearing an incorrect set means you don't win the fight in many cases, while making other fights outright impossible to complete.
It's not a feasible system, and adds nothing to the game except an artificial gate that frustrates players.
The process you outlined is nice and all but 1) it wasn't required at all, as Classic has shown you really didn't need the "best" fire resist gear and 2) more involvement on the crafter's part didn't always mean more for the wearer (I know they were more often one and the same in vanilla, but not forcibly). Gameplay wise, a progression path towards a powerful item usable all the time and that's a core part of your build and begins with a crafted base is also far more satisfying than the long process to get fire resist gear (assuming you do it yourself) because you gotta wear it for a couple fights or die. Same for the Ny'aloatha cloak, which actually did shit besides stopping the unavoidable attack, setting aside the broken mess that were corrupted items.
As for the Jailer not interfering, that's not a rabbit hole one wishes to get into. Every raid boss in WoW history waits in their throne room and doesn't do shit until you come to them, it's no different from the Dark Irons not trying to retake their one-of-a-kind forge once you've cleared out the nearby goons or not sounding a city wide alarm once the party has slaughtered a good fourth of Blackrock Depths.
Really there's just tons of reasons resist gear is no more. I don't think many people ever found it satisfying at all; at best they didn't mind but nobody actually found it fun, it wasn't interactive, it took up bag space back when it was at a premium, and it didn't improve encounter design at all. The RPG aspects are the closest thing to a pro and they were inconsistently applied at best.
It's the same with weapon skill really, as someone else outlined above. At best you didn't mind autoattacking those invincible/low level mobs for hours on end, but come on, let's not pretend that was exciting or meaningful from an RPG standpoint, not when "training" in this game otherwise meant paying some dude and learning your new skills instantly.
It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia
The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.
You mean, where it's a foregone conclusion to wear the cloak because any reasonable player wears the cloak as it was BiS throughout the enterity of 8.3?
I think you mistake "much better" with "pointless flavor".
And that's a bad thing?
Doesn't it give the player *more* agency and makes the whole far more dependant on the players / raids gear whether they use resistance or not?
I find this much better because resistances were never a mechanic "You need to wear X resistance or you die!", it was more like "it's recommended to wear X, but not mandatory".
You either had to help the crafter to actually craft the item or the crafter would charge you a price far above the price of the crafting materials, due to the more involved process.
Those items were usually crafted on demand, rather than to have them in stock.
The crux is however that, as said above, any sane player already will *always* wear the cloak when said content is relevant, hence the mechanic is actually utterly pointless.
That's not a rabbit hole, the fact that such a crucial prisoner is completely unguarded is just completely contrived for the sake of player convenience.
Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-07-19 at 06:53 AM.
Let's add...
Talent rows are just a silly pointless mechanic, won't matter if they remove it.
Itemlevel / Items are just a silly pointless mechanic, won't matter if they remove it.
Classes are just a silly pointless mechanic, won't matter if they remove it.
Let's switch to "Only skill matters" and we're fine.
That's... just an abysmal reasoning, leading to a bland, boring and hollow game. Immersion is by itself a pillar of "fun", that's why we use weapons and pretend to be heroes rather than just have lines of numbers and cells.
The post right under your own pretty much sums it up.
A lot of interesting and essential things have been written here, but I would like to remind separately what people pathologically forget. This element, among other things (immersion, logic, lore, preparation, etc.), had design sense of progress: it reduced need for increase in inflation of gear's characteristics. This is not just "and also this", this is very significant bonus/addition to entire system, and most importantly, this factor is absolutely universal (not temporary/completely liquidated/depreciated) - relevant and logical for any content/next patch/expansion. Perhaps "pure vanilla" approach was a little dry, but I suppose if manipulate whole system of characteristics in gear at the same time, rather than twitch its different parts separately, everything will turn out much smoother.
Many, especially magic classes, were alarmed by behavior of such element (resistance) in PvP and PvE, but earlier there was characteristic of spell penetration for PvE, and for PvP this characteristic could, if question was correctly posed, be devalued up to 95% by presence of cap of resilience, everything can be easy and simple, you just need to not contradict logic.
Separate spit at those speaking about "very boring stats". These are characteristics, this is their purpose (their purpose is to help with differentiation of roles, their priorities and organization of progress - that's all, no any transcendental far-fetched rubbish) and right to be such (when they became "interesting", system begun to crack at seams, and design was falling apart, this was said before any "interesting systems" appeared and what happened after only proved veracity of such censor), talents are more interesting still not enough to overweight class' distinctive stuff, class mechanics are even more interesting - in that order and only that.
Last edited by Alkizon; 2021-08-01 at 10:46 AM.
__---=== PM me WHERE if I'm unnecessarily "notifying" you ===---__
The majority of resists gear was crafted using standard mats and unique drops from inside the raid. Hydross (the earliest fight of TBC needing resists) required gear that could be done using greens. It wasn't that expensive.
It was as I recall simply dropped because they weren't beneficial to raiding. They were just an arbitrary thing you needed to have, and ability didn't come into it. If you didn't have enough mats to manufacture the gear or there were nothing on the AH you could scrounge for the key players you couldn't do the fight. It wasn't a fun mechanic.
Also it was random as hell. Al'ar didn't need fire resist gear for some reason despite being the God of Phoenix's? Go figure.
Last edited by Malania; 2021-07-22 at 01:22 PM.
Misread the title as racist gear lmao. I think I've spent too much time on Gen OT..
^ This is from a self-proclaimed Trump-hater who goes round vote-policing, berating and insulting other users for expressing their doubts and reservations about Joe Biden. He also urges others to end relationships and friendships just to "vote Trump out". https://ibb.co/2jRnZGC He can't seem to walk the talk himself.
Ironically BT gave you loads of drops so you could manufacture Shadow gear for Mother Shar'raz and you could beat her without it if your guild was fast at dealing with her teleports so they didn't kill your players. It didn't amusingly give you fire resist for Illidans adds...
I don't find "wear these items or you will die" to be particularly enthralling gameplay, if I'm honest. It's just another stat, and one that's only useful for a handful of encounters at that.
It was just a way of gating people from completing the raid too early.
Gear needs more interesting and varied effects rather than a handful of very boring stats.
Resist gear wasted inventory space. It also allowed for awful situations where melee could become basically immune to anything a caster could do in pvp.
Bandwagon sports fans can eat a bag of http://www.ddir.com/ .
Resist gear is disliked for the same reason alternative power is. It simply adds a grind for grinds sake and the boss could always function the same way by being property tuned.
resists were kinda like... idk. uninteresting. I say that because its just another set of items to collect, use a few fights, and then they just take up space. If they are sought after BoEs, they will be higher in price. The gear you work to collect through everything else is set aside for...? Reasons. They could theme a raid around a certain damage type and let pieces drop within the raid to slowly mitigate the damage as you gain drops. Would give a natural power progression to groups every week that wouldnt overly inflate the ilvl (im looking at you titanforging) between raids and they could have smaller ilvl increases. Each piece could be like 1% damage resistance, giving you 16% with full gear. But then it would feel bad to walk into the next raid and be getting hit for high numbers again, to watch it slowly go back down. I just never liked how they put it in the game and I'm happy that I never had to interact with it. I didn't raid in vanilla or classic. It seemed so silly to collect terrible gear for the sake of resistances and didn't feel like it was really valuable. Just more stuff along with your consumables and everything else in your bags.