The Asmongold Effect

[Xilurm]

But it is not. I hate streamers, and I play FF14 now because 9.1 was very lackluster for the time we waited. Around the same time this mass exodus happened is it not? I know for a fact, I am not the only one too.

Some of it might be influenced by some streamer, but not all and I will be surprised if it’s most.

Well you're just one person. There's thousands watching them. Considering that literally last week on Zodiark EU I had 24 queue, and now it's 500, I can clearly guess why this is happening.

[HansOlo]

1. Shadowbringers released to universal acclaim
2. WoW is considered by the community to be bad. Honestly I think Shadowlands is okay, but the game has been in such a bad/mediocre state for so long that people are fed up with anything other than great.
3. Asmongold, a guy who I'd say is one of the least likely to like FFXIV, starts playing the game and is enjoying it.

It's a combination of those things. If Shadowbringers was FFXIV's worst expansion, this wouldn't happen. If Shadowlands was one of WoW's best expansions this wouldn't happen. Asmongold has had a large effect but he's more a result of WoW's negligence rather than the root cause of the shift.

I think the perception used to be that WoW was bad, but people believed that they'd eventually turn it around. Now people have lost faith that Blizzard will ever turn things around and they're looking for something else to play.

I think SL is a great expansion. The problem is how Blizzard is promoting themself and thier products(or the lack of it). It feels like they don't give a shit. It's like a good sauce but no steak. There are lots of issues where the management doesn't handle it well enough(everything from quality control to communication and PvP - you really start to believe that there are internal issues).

Competition is good and I really hope that Square Enix will teach them a lesson of humility and professionalism(primarly to the management team).

[Necromantic]

While I get the point, I think it misses the point I am trying to make here, the point being, the atmosphere of the MMO itself has changed, people are influenced by things they see, thats fact.

While you're not wrong, what others are saying and have said about this person before is that the sheep may flock here with their "shepherd" but they're just mindless drones. They have no thoughts of their own so it does... but it doesn't make the population bigger.

I guess the best visual I can give you is this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yCmZHILkm8

That may sound/seem like a troll but it isn't.

Well you're just one person. There's thousands watching them. Considering that literally last week on Zodiark EU I had 24 queue, and now it's 500, I can clearly guess why this is happening.

See above.

Queues are filled with empty shells. Before I knew about this, I was wondering why people were playing so strangely in dungeons. People running into walls, looking left/right all confused before finally going the right way. Healers letting people die a lot more often while focusing too much on doing damage.

[Super Kami Dende]

Calling bullshit. The shift started prior to this guy streaming FFXIV. It was that shift and popularity movement that got him to try it.

The shift had started but had no considerable momentum. Though the day Asmon started streaming and the week following the Google activity around FFXIV went higher than even previous to it's own Expansion hype.



The uptick at the end of the Red line is the same day Asmon started streaming it.

[Necromantic]

I think SL is a great expansion. The problem is how Blizzard is promoting themself and thier products(or the lack of it). It feels like they don't give a shit. It's like a good sauce but no steak. There are lots of issues where the management doesn't handle it well enough(everything from quality control to communication and PvP - you really start to believe that there are internal issues).

Competition is good and I really hope that Square Enix will teach them a lesson of humility and professionalism(primarly to the management team).

I think they care but they're working with what they have. They do not have all the quality developers that they used to. My buddy who works there said they hire a lot less quality people to meet quotas. He said there is less hiring of developers from prestigious schools and more from community colleges and online colleges. He said other jobs that used to require a degree can be obtained without even a high school diploma. Much has to do with shareholders pushing things.

[HansOlo]

I think they care but they're working with what they have. They do not have all the quality developers that they used to. My buddy who works there said they hire a lot less quality people to meet quotas. He said there is less hiring of developers from prestigious schools and more from community colleges and online colleges. He said other jobs that used to require a degree can be obtained without even a high school diploma. Much has to do with shareholders pushing things.

I can releate to that.

I used to work for a huge ISP - until we got bought by some capital investors. The managements first task was to fire my department(as we all had educations and too high salary for thier ideals) - and instead they would hire people for less money and less experience/education. These people are also more humble and they would never rebel as thier oppertunities are much more limited than mine.

But this again leads to mangerials issues and a CEO who wants to cut down expenses to promote money for Activision.

[Thundering]

Is this when people only play due to outhers are playing that?

Basically people dont play the game because they enjoy it themselves?

[Swnem]

Asmongold has the opposite effect for me. I don't want to play on the servers he's on or the games he plays. His fanbase is the worst parts of any community.

You do know he didn't quit WoW? You still play the same game he does. XD

- - - Updated - - -

the only thing i find ironic in this story is how blizz own developers think shit of him
yes only a hater can deny his effect, i never watched a single stream of him, i don't even know if he has a youtube channel or not, but i DO know he is the biggest star in wow now, and when u ignore him, enjoy the effect
gg FF14, for me it is wow or bust, and right now it is bust, i hate that, i really wish wow get better and play it again, but when u are near 40, u have zero interest to start from scratch anywhere else, either wow get fixed i play, or bye both games

Dude, i was in a similar boat, but i went through with it two years ago and i am so happy. I didn't know what it was to enjoy a game for the game itself rather than just the people i play with. Playing FF brought a lot of joy to me. It still does even though i catched up. Give it a chance, you might experience that joy too.

The game is really not as old as WoW. It does not imprison you on daily/weekly chores and is designed so you have a break between patches. It's finite, not an endless grind. Because of that, you have ample time to catch up with everything. I catched up with 6 years of game in 1 year of playing Shadowbringers. Not everything, but i got every job maxed and unlocked all content.
There arent hundreads of mounts and pets to collect yet. Still good to jump in.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Is this when people only play due to outhers are playing that?

Basically people dont play the game because they enjoy it themselves?

A really strange psychological effect seems to go on with your average MMO player that if you dislike the game they like that it means you dislike them. Don't get me wrong I have games I like and don't like and I wish more people played the ones I play and so on and so on but I don't really take it as a personal attack that requires me to go on massive online offensives across social media and various forums. Probably because I don't directly link the game to my own self value. It isn't part of my personia. It is just a game I play. Sadly, I do not think very many people have a similar view on the situation but to each their own I suppose. It does make for a fascinating watch.

[Orby]

while Asmongold kind of boosted it's success, I think we owe a lot of credit to people like ZeplaHQ and Jesse Cox who made that transition and got a lot of eyes on it in the first place. Asmongold came over from WoW convinced by other content creators who had also moved over before hand.

[Necromantic]

Is this when people only play due to outhers are playing that?

Basically people dont play the game because they enjoy it themselves?

Yes.

I've had conversations on forums and in-game with followers.

Me: What do you like most about *insert anything here*
Follower: Well, according to *insert streamer name here*...
Me: No, what do YOU like?
Follower: But... *insert streamer name here* said...


It's so odd how much they think they influence things other than mindless players. The game was more popular and had more subscribers before streamers came from lurking. People actually had their own fresh ideas. And best of all, you could search the internet for something and not have 10 videos pop up of someone with a fake expression on their face and a video just of their reaction. That always perplexed me... reaction videos. Why is how some random person on the internet's reaction to something important?

[Sorshen]

People need to stop living vicariously thru streamers.

[Iamsmol]

FF14 ist just so fucking overhyped. I played it in the past for some time and tried it again several weeks ago with some friends. We all quit relativley fast because the game doesn’t really give you, what a typical wow gamer wants.

- The whole process of getting a subscription was awful and the website(s) are just terrible. They look and feel like something out of 1999.
- Graphics feel very outdated. I mean where are the shadows? Wow is old too but you never hav the feeling of playing an very old game while in newer areas. The style is timeless. FF14 style is just not timeless and you notice that.

- Leveling is not great at all. It goes on forever and you cannot even play together with your friends without huge disadvantages. They tried to make it work, but wow is at a much better place with that.

- So much people crying over wow’s ingame shop, but FF14 shop is not better. You can buy story campaign skips for every addon and you really want to, because the story campaign lasts forever

- Combat feels clunky and slow (probaly because of the ridiculous gcd?).

- The interface oft he game is kind of good. They provide you more options than wow standard UI but the group display is out of this world. It’s the worst thing I have ever seen in a mmo. If you want to play healer in FF14, just don’t, because you have no way to customize you group display in any meaningful way.

- Addons are not allowed in FF14. Damage meter is the only noteworthy exception but you have to install it manually and it is a pain in the ass. People arguing, that restricting addons is a good thing and i would even go with that, but having no dps meter means you don’t have a clue about your performance and what to improve. That's not fun at all for a lot of people.

- The transmogsystem is just shit.

- PVP is just shit – are there even people playing it?

- The endgame of FF14 is not special at all. It’s the same shit we get in wow maybe even a bit worse than wow.

- Raids and dungeons in general are fine but the slow and clunky feel in combat just sucks.
wow is so much better in that area. Wow has just more depth – it feels better.

Overall FF14 ist not a bad game, but it is not superior to wow at all. All the hype will go away very soon when the new players made it to max level and the excitement of something new is gone. All the wow players crying about dailies and wow endgame will notice, that FF14 is the same but even worse.

[AtomR]

Come on guys. The lack of content in wow is what drove people to FFXIV. And yes even with the new patch the content feels lacking. It's the Maw. It was designed so literally as a "place of despair" that there is absolutely no redeeming it and we're still being forced into the Maw and Torghast. FFXIV has years of stuff that the new people haven't even seen so it will probably last a few good months.
When I played it in 2014 the game was fine but it drove me back to wow. Playing made me miss wow and after months without playing wow it drove me back and that will probably happen with most of these people that are just playing something that is just new. It looks different, it feels different, and has different stories and zones.
Mind you I haven't played the game in years so I don't know how much it changed since 2014 but I still know from personal experience not to underestimate the strength of wow addiction. XD

[Jazzhands]

We cant deny, while XIV is an amazing game, what has undeniably boosted its popularity, is the streamers.

And while one might say XIV wasnt really affected by Asmongold, it was just people bored of WoW or other MMO's, theres no denying his opinion being positive towards the game helped sway people that were indecisive to give the game a try.

I legitimatley believe weirdly enough this only prooves influencers actually do have the power to turn the tide of an MMO.

The opinion of one guy literally caused the servers to run out of space overnight, and yes, that was his influence, 200K people watched him at the same time during peak on his first run and over 1 million people viewed over the day alone.

1 million people, watched a guy play XIV.

And now, alot of people are playing XIV.

This isnt just some random chance, its truth, influence, popularity, its very much what defines an MMO, look back at WoW's machinema days, Illegal Danish, the Grind, the Machinema that came from WoW really did help rise its popularity just from showing the games visual potential.

Literally you could just start seeing people make Machinema of XIV next and it'd skyrocket its popularity even more, passive entertainment leads to curiousity, leads to trying the game, and in some cases, not all, but some.

People will buy, sub, and play the game long term.

Im pretty hyped for Endwalker for this fact alone, this should likely be a wakeup call to Squeenix to put more money into XIV's development over certain "other" projects that didnt do as well *eyes a certain marvel MMO* and likely means they'll see the XIV budget increase, which means more content because more development and development equipment/resources.

So... yeah, XIV's doing great, Asmongold wasnt the thing that made it great, it had many reasons to be great.

But Asmongold undeniably made it greater.

As for its weaknesses? Sure, XIV has a few, I can rip into alot, the 1-50 experience is slow, but definatley better since 5.3, the content combat is slower than wow and wont feel as epic at first but the reward of the challenge defo makes up for it. Raids dont have 14 bosses but instead are divided over 14 single fights, which is a balanced point rather than a bad or good one.

Content in this game just, has a feel that I can only describe as the WOTLK effect, the era in which wow peaked at its most potent. Casual players have something to do from all spectrums, the ones that want random crap to do (Glamors/bard/dancing/mailbox casuals in limsa/ul'dah) the crafters (that actually have an endgame, wtf?), the raids, which are well rounded for differnet levels of challenge as opposed to one.

Is it a weeb game too? Idk, I actually argue that FFXIV may be the most Western-friendly JRPG/MMO ive seen considering that it actually makes content thats surpisingly easy to follow lore wise and localised well to make it easy to figure out the world and the setting rather than it being too weird/complex.

Sure, it has those anime tropes, and rediculas moments but... Ive been playing 3 years now since Stormblood 4.5? And... honestly, this game may very well be my new home.

So yeah, thanks to Asmon for trying it, and frankly, I hope he continues to enjoy it, and if he finds something wrong with it, let him, and let other people, the game isnt for everyone but its a damn good game all the same.

Big streamer tries game and his mindless followers follow him? Weird. Except not really. However even with that in mind, no streamer has the power to "turn the tide" in an MMO, this migration has been going on for a really long time, Asmon specifically tried it because it was already getting huge.

This was mostly just the stars aligning whether you really want to believe it or not though. If WoW wasn't in such shite condition then this wouldn't have been anywhere near as big, people were just massively thirsty for an MMO that wasn't complete garbage and Asmon helped people get over their "but weebs" block because for some reason people need someone to hold their hand and make decisions for them.

Let's also not forget that Asmon's community is uhhh.... not really the best. I was pretty sad when I heard a lot of them would likely be playing FF14, but at least they aren't on my data server cause they wanna simp for a bald dude.

[sam86]

You do know he didn't quit WoW? You still play the same game he does. XD

- - - Updated - - -



Dude, i was in a similar boat, but i went through with it two years ago and i am so happy. I didn't know what it was to enjoy a game for the game itself rather than just the people i play with. Playing FF brought a lot of joy to me. It still does even though i catched up. Give it a chance, you might experience that joy too.

The game is really not as old as WoW. It does not imprison you on daily/weekly chores and is designed so you have a break between patches. It's finite, not an endless grind. Because of that, you have ample time to catch up with everything. I catched up with 6 years of game in 1 year of playing Shadowbringers. Not everything, but i got every job maxed and unlocked all content.
There arent hundreads of mounts and pets to collect yet. Still good to jump in.

wow for me is a childhood franchise, not just a game
I play warcraft since wc1, i made a lot of custom maps in wc2, even making my own voice, i made a LOT in wc3, replayed it a lot, i improved my english a lot to understand warcraft 2 briefing, i write it and use dictionary to translate it, I consider wrath the best time of my entire life itself
warcraft for me is part of my life, not just a 'game', heck i wonder if i'm 3 times as rich if i'd ever unsub (since i exist in egypt, sub is a good 10% of my salary, used to be even worse 25% but just got raise this year)
I'm more interested in warcraft than most of current blizzard employees, for them it is a job to get payment, for me I'm willing to pay to make it better, heck i'm willing to sacrifice most of my income (which i literally did early wrath, my salary back then was equal to around ~50 usd a month by now values) just to make it a great game
Sorry thx 4 offer but doubt i'll ever think of play another game, for me hope wow get better, or just flat out stop playing any game at all

[The Stormbringer]

wow for me is a childhood franchise, not just a game
I play warcraft since wc1, i made a lot of custom maps in wc2, even making my own voice, i made a LOT in wc3, replayed it a lot, i improved my english a lot to understand warcraft 2 briefing, i write it and use dictionary to translate it, I consider wrath the best time of my entire life itself
warcraft for me is part of my life, not just a 'game', heck i wonder if i'm 3 times as rich if i'd ever unsub (since i exist in egypt, sub is a good 10% of my salary, used to be even worse 25% but just got raise this year)
I'm more interested in warcraft than most of current blizzard employees, for them it is a job to get payment, for me I'm willing to pay to make it better, heck i'm willing to sacrifice most of my income (which i literally did early wrath, my salary back then was equal to around ~50 usd a month by now values) just to make it a great game
Sorry thx 4 offer but doubt i'll ever think of play another game, for me hope wow get better, or just flat out stop playing any game at all

I used to feel similarly, but I got burned too many times by Blizzard, or the things that helped make the games fun fell away. It used to be that I thought I would never leave WoW, because Warcraft is part of my childhood and I grew up with it, but just recently I decided to finally cut the cord and quit. The Blizzard we grew up with is dead, the people who made it are gone, and clinging to the hope that they'll magically return to what they once were was too much for me.

I wish you the best, though.

[infinitemeridian]

FF14 ist just so fucking overhyped. I played it in the past for some time and tried it again several weeks ago with some friends. We all quit relativley fast because the game doesn’t really give you, what a typical wow gamer wants.

- The whole process of getting a subscription was awful and the website(s) are just terrible. They look and feel like something out of 1999.
- Graphics feel very outdated. I mean where are the shadows? Wow is old too but you never hav the feeling of playing an very old game while in newer areas. The style is timeless. FF14 style is just not timeless and you notice that.

- Leveling is not great at all. It goes on forever and you cannot even play together with your friends without huge disadvantages. They tried to make it work, but wow is at a much better place with that.

- So much people crying over wow’s ingame shop, but FF14 shop is not better. You can buy story campaign skips for every addon and you really want to, because the story campaign lasts forever

- Combat feels clunky and slow (probaly because of the ridiculous gcd?).

- The interface oft he game is kind of good. They provide you more options than wow standard UI but the group display is out of this world. It’s the worst thing I have ever seen in a mmo. If you want to play healer in FF14, just don’t, because you have no way to customize you group display in any meaningful way.

- Addons are not allowed in FF14. Damage meter is the only noteworthy exception but you have to install it manually and it is a pain in the ass. People arguing, that restricting addons is a good thing and i would even go with that, but having no dps meter means you don’t have a clue about your performance and what to improve. That's not fun at all for a lot of people.

- The transmogsystem is just shit.

- PVP is just shit – are there even people playing it?

- The endgame of FF14 is not special at all. It’s the same shit we get in wow maybe even a bit worse than wow.

- Raids and dungeons in general are fine but the slow and clunky feel in combat just sucks.
wow is so much better in that area. Wow has just more depth – it feels better.

Overall FF14 ist not a bad game, but it is not superior to wow at all. All the hype will go away very soon when the new players made it to max level and the excitement of something new is gone. All the wow players crying about dailies and wow endgame will notice, that FF14 is the same but even worse.

Wow is only superior if you care about instanced pve content, and even that is debatable at this point. FF14 is just on another level in terms of everything else - professions, housing, sidequests, story, transmog options (not the system itself), music, etc.

[Video Games]

Wait.. You think it's the wow devs fault for how wow has turned out? Have you been living under a rock?

[Swnem]

wow for me is a childhood franchise, not just a game
I play warcraft since wc1, i made a lot of custom maps in wc2, even making my own voice, i made a LOT in wc3, replayed it a lot, i improved my english a lot to understand warcraft 2 briefing, i write it and use dictionary to translate it, I consider wrath the best time of my entire life itself
warcraft for me is part of my life, not just a 'game', heck i wonder if i'm 3 times as rich if i'd ever unsub (since i exist in egypt, sub is a good 10% of my salary, used to be even worse 25% but just got raise this year)
I'm more interested in warcraft than most of current blizzard employees, for them it is a job to get payment, for me I'm willing to pay to make it better, heck i'm willing to sacrifice most of my income (which i literally did early wrath, my salary back then was equal to around ~50 usd a month by now values) just to make it a great game
Sorry thx 4 offer but doubt i'll ever think of play another game, for me hope wow get better, or just flat out stop playing any game at all

WoW means a lot for me too. I met my other half throught it and we now live together.
There is life beyond WoW. But, it is totally up to you what you choose to do. Just thought i'd share my experience.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

- - - Updated - - -

FF14 ist just so fucking overhyped. I played it in the past for some time and tried it again several weeks ago with some friends. We all quit relativley fast because the game doesn’t really give you, what a typical wow gamer wants.

- The whole process of getting a subscription was awful and the website(s) are just terrible. They look and feel like something out of 1999.
- Graphics feel very outdated. I mean where are the shadows? Wow is old too but you never hav the feeling of playing an very old game while in newer areas. The style is timeless. FF14 style is just not timeless and you notice that.

- Leveling is not great at all. It goes on forever and you cannot even play together with your friends without huge disadvantages. They tried to make it work, but wow is at a much better place with that.

- So much people crying over wow’s ingame shop, but FF14 shop is not better. You can buy story campaign skips for every addon and you really want to, because the story campaign lasts forever

- Combat feels clunky and slow (probaly because of the ridiculous gcd?).

- The interface oft he game is kind of good. They provide you more options than wow standard UI but the group display is out of this world. It’s the worst thing I have ever seen in a mmo. If you want to play healer in FF14, just don’t, because you have no way to customize you group display in any meaningful way.

- Addons are not allowed in FF14. Damage meter is the only noteworthy exception but you have to install it manually and it is a pain in the ass. People arguing, that restricting addons is a good thing and i would even go with that, but having no dps meter means you don’t have a clue about your performance and what to improve. That's not fun at all for a lot of people.

- The transmogsystem is just shit.

- PVP is just shit – are there even people playing it?

- The endgame of FF14 is not special at all. It’s the same shit we get in wow maybe even a bit worse than wow.

- Raids and dungeons in general are fine but the slow and clunky feel in combat just sucks.
wow is so much better in that area. Wow has just more depth – it feels better.

Overall FF14 ist not a bad game, but it is not superior to wow at all. All the hype will go away very soon when the new players made it to max level and the excitement of something new is gone. All the wow players crying about dailies and wow endgame will notice, that FF14 is the same but even worse.

That in bold tells me you are in the WoW mindset still.
In FF you don't level. You go on a journey. You experience a story. There is nothing for you to level for. You don't need to care what your level is. The story is the focus. There is no leveling experience the first time around. Only when leveling alt jobs.

The thing with FF's shop is the game is good. Yeah, they do shop stuff, but the game is not just throwing reskinned mounts at you. The shop in FF truly feels optional. That is simply cause people are more satisfied with the base product. So, while it is a negative, it is not as noticeable.
Also, it's not built in your game UI. It's completely off game.

The combat is slow leveling. Once you are max level and you have to do a complex rotation with off gcd's and dodging a myriad of mechanics, you will not notice the gcd anymore.

Addons not allowed are one of the reasons you will not notice the gcd. There are no weak auras to cheat with and give you alerts. You have to pay atention.

Transmog could definitly be better, but it's there.

PvP, people say that, but i don't agree. For a casual BG PvPer it's actually quite enjoyable. The 3 faction system builds a self balance system that prevents any side from being too dominant. I think it's pretty cool when everyone feels like victory is achievable.

The end-game. Yes! There is nothing special. You don't have to do chores or play slot machines. You just have to beat bosses. You have determinist ways to get gear. It is Marvelous! A complete dream.

I don't think WoW's encounters are better at all. You can go through encounters where nothing targets you and you stand there dpsing and then boast about your rank cause the rng blessed you. It's really dumb.
Overall i think they are comparable, but playing bozja/zednos FF is way harder in casual play. You have lots of mechanics that one shot that you have to learn while doing your rotation. It is certainly no LFR. Same for alliance raids.

I also want to point out how you only mentioned things WoW also has. FF has more features. Housing, guild systems, in-game card games, gold saucer, choco breeding, squadron training, trust, deep dungeons, eureka/bozja, etc.

In truth WoW is better in mainly 2 big things, which is the buying process, which is a one time process and the responsiveness of the combat, not to confuse with class design.
But, if combat responsiveness was all that mattered TERA would be huge. So, it's about the whole package, and FF is good.

Also all the combat responsiveness will mean nothing when your game is laggy and buggy aka the maw and anytime a world boss is engaged.

The full package is what matters and currently, FF has the best package.

Special note to graphics. FF has a full weather system. I think WoW has not had one since the base continents. The clothing has more details and physics. The zone themselves are good artistically but are not as dense as WoW's. They learned from the original release not to go overboard with graphics. That may be why WoW lags so much in the overworld and FF doesn't.
Overall, not a big deal. I think the graphics are acceptable on both. Not performance though.