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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    FFXIV isn't wow
    I believe it's story first, MMO second. I already had cases of people that didn't like the game because they didin't want to do the story but "kill stuff and get to max level" and went back to ESO
    While I have other people that, to be honest, thought they wouldn't like the slower pace and they made it to Shadowbringers in less than a month because they ended up liking the story and other stuff (housing, gold saucer,etc)

    It's not a game for everyone
    Oh, agreed.

    I loved it the first time I played through, and really appreciated it the second time through because I was still thoroughly invested in and cared about the story. But on my third play through I really understood where people were coming from where it just felt like a slog to get through because, like some people, I didn't really care about the story and just wanted to get to the parts of the game I wanted to see (Replayed ARR when HW launched, replayed HW when SB launched, replayed SB when ShB launched and am now replaying ShB now that all the patches are out).

    Point being, at some point, and for some people the design doesn't feel great.

    If that's just how they want it, that's fine, but they're alienating a pretty sizeable population by doing so and could bring in more folks if they adjusted the design a bit.

    But I do think that they could streamline things and provide more options for people instead of funneling and forcing everyone to play through everything to unlock that stuff.

  2. #502
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    But I do think that they could streamline things and provide more options for people instead of funneling and forcing everyone to play through everything to unlock that stuff.
    It's still a JRPG. With an online component, yes. But story in these things is always important
    Different strokes for different folks
    Last edited by Maljinwo; 2021-07-19 at 02:37 PM.
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    It's still a JRPG. With an online component, yes. But story in these things is always important
    I'm not disagreeing with this. But, some people really don't care about it. Some of those people still love FFXIV despite how focused on story it is.

    This tells me it's not a hard requirement for group content to be so directly tied to the story for people to enjoy it.

    I don't hate the current design, but I do understand why new players do, because they're forced to play through hundreds of hours of content before they can even see the current content, or on monetary note, to even see the content they paid for.

    If this were a single player game, each expansion would have been a new installment in the series, bought separately years apart with the player jumping directly into whatever game they purchased without being forced to play through the previous installments before enjoying what they bought.

  4. #504
    As someone who has played FFXIV since ARR went live (I didn't have the misfortune of trying it before it was built from the ground up again) I've briefly skimmed over this thread and some of the posts and I have a few things to see that may or may not be relevant, this is just from the perspective of someone that has sunk thousands of hours into the game at this point.


    1. Community. Very few MMO's do community well these days, most of them lose their social/community feeling due to shortcuts or dungeon queues or other things that just hide you away from other players, and yet, FFXIV has not only managed to use these very modern systems BUT managed to maintain its social/community feeling.

    2. If you don't like story-driven content, FFXIV likely isn't for you. The story is arguably the most important thing after community in FFXIV and enjoying that content is crucial for a long and happy FFXIV life.

    3. The Profession System is a touch of genius. It's definitely more time consuming than other games but it's also much more engaging. I've played almost every MMO since the original Everquest was still considered the king and I have yet to find an MMO with a crafting system I've enjoyed as much as FFXIV.

    4. The Class System. I think it goes without saying being able to have every class on a single character is amazing, no more massive lists of alts, no more having to gather multiple sets of the same gear for multiple characters.

    5. PvP. The PvP in FFXIV isn't great but it never really claimed to be, it was never a game that was going to be built around this idea of PvP, the PvP is just there as an added bonus... a mini-game as sorts and should absolutely be looked upon as such. When you start to see FFXIV PvP as more of a mini-game, you'll enjoy it more than taking it deadly seriously.




    There are other things I could touch on but I felt those were the main ones people keep coming back to. I hope you enjoy Eorzea as much as I have and still am

  5. #505
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I don't hate the current design, but I do understand why new players do, because they're forced to play through hundreds of hours of content before they can even see the current content, or on monetary note, to even see the content they paid for.

    If this were a single player game, each expansion would have been a new installment in the series, bought separately years apart with the player jumping directly into whatever game they purchased without being forced to play through the previous installments before enjoying what they bought.

    Personally, I paid for the story since everyone was saying how good it was (Specially with ShB) so no complaints from me
    Of course, im not every player. And hey, they can use the Free Trial to see if the would pay for a story driven MMO. By level 60 they'd know what they are getting themselves into.

    The players I know that didn't like the game uninstalled it after level 6 because "There's too much text"

    I understand your point but I simply think the neither the game nor the devs share the "game starts at max level" mentality.
    Max level players can play with their friends by using the duty finder. At least that's what I did. Helped them out by tanking dungeons, trials, and all
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    That is the dumbest fucking comparison I've ever heard. Did you pull a muscle when doing all this reaching? BY DEFINITION, it's not a "7 day queue". You're just so desperate to avoid saying you're wrong that you'll now just say whatever nonsense comes to mind first.
    1... rude. 2. I'll reiterate it for him. If the argument is the fact that you are waiting to do something before you can progress, then a 1 week time gate in wow is a 10,080 minute time gate. Let's be lenient and sY every mandatory queue in ffxiv took you 30 minutes. That would mean there has to be 336 30 minute queues before they equal out. Not to mention that wow literally does it every week even at max and ffxiv only does it during the leveling process. According to what you are arguing anyway.

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Personally, I paid for the story since everyone was saying how good it was (Specially with ShB) so no complaints from me
    Of course, im not every player. And hey, they can use the Free Trial to see if the would pay for a story driven MMO. By level 60 they'd know what they are getting themselves into.
    Agreed, that does mean players can try it for free and see if it's something they'll like.

    The players I know that didn't like the game uninstalled it after level 6 because "There's too much text"
    Which is a fair criticism, but that's part of what people discuss when making adjustments. Does everyone HAVE to be forced to experience all that text and everything else associated with the MSQ?

    My experience says "no" as I know many people who skip everything they can, don't care about story at all, focus almost entirely on the group content and STILL enjoy the game.

    All they're asking for are options. I'm not necessarily opposed to that idea, so long as it doesn't change my experience. I like and am fine with the game as it is, mostly.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    You're right, my apologies. I see where I got confused. The point was about me (remember I switched around your post and you got offended), so the initial point was you talking about me, but then you pivoted to actually responding to Bovine and because I wasn't reading your guys posts intimately I missed your point you highlighted above where it was directed at him and I was only a brief snippet in that response.
    Wait.. did someone just apologize for misunderstanding something? Get out! (Sarcasm).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xpsync View Post
    Nailed it! After the flash and new car smell wears off one starts to understand how weak the game is at the core.

    For some, ffxiv is exactly what they want from a game, totally cool and happy for them. I was quite enamored with the game for first couple months at launch, tried a couple returns, to now, just, no more, please, never again. I don't think a game has ever bored me that much.

    Problem with the ffxiv (the second coming) wave is that it's for far too many an easy stab at Blizz and nothing more than that. Which then fuels the lemming players to go oh, everyone is playing ffxiv, so that is the game i should be playing now, whether they like it or not is irrelevant.

    I got dc'd, "Welp off to FFXIV", i only got 15 gold reward for quest "Welp off to FFXIV", omg Ven'ari doesn't offer Spatial Realignment Apparatus season 2 "Welp off to FFXIV", i farmed gondria for 15 hours and nothing "Welp off to FFXIV" any little freaking thing, "Welp off to FFXIV" when in reality most of the people saying that are still playing wow and don't even have a Square account.
    What is wrong with you? Who hurt you? Where is all the animosity toward ffxiv coming from? You don't like the game? Ok fine.. go play something you do like and stop forcing toxicity on people who do. Thats like being a door to door Bible thumper.. just because you like religion doesn't mean everyone wants you to stuff your opinion down their throat.
    Last edited by Subrias; 2021-07-19 at 04:14 PM.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Subrias View Post
    Wait.. did someone just apologize for misunderstanding something? Get out! (Sarcasm).

    - - - Updated - - -



    What is wrong with you? Who hurt you? Where is all the animosity toward ffxiv coming from? You don't like the game? Ok fine.. go play something you do like and stop forcing toxicity on people who do. Thats like being a door to door Bible thumper.. just because you like religion doesn't mean everyone wants you to stuff your opinion down their throat.
    Streamers come and go, some are around longer than others but overall i've noticed their shelf life isn't forever, that time in the spotlight fades fast as their audience matures, or they've made so much money they just don't care anymore and peeps lose interest, numerous reasons.

    Sure, you have supreme exceptions such as pie, but so many drift out of importance seemingly over night. People are people, and they be no different from you or I, their soapbox is just bigger for a time, in the end they walk away multimillionaires, and all thanks to people who wasted their time watching, whom then walk away chumps with nothing.

    I'm happy for people whom love ffxiv, for me i know what the game is like at the core and is not for me, wow is far superior to me in every conceivable way being a EQ2 vet from the golden era of mmorpg's, rip EQ2 2004 - 2008.

    Absolutely hated on wow for a better part of decade for destroying the genre by flooding it with "i want it now" casuals, wow is and will always be the destroyer of worlds.

    Years back went through the whole being a pinball bouncing from mmo to a new mmo every other week era, and eso, ffxiv, lotro just never made the cut, way to "push button i win" as long as your credit card is on tap, then short story short i was luckily awakened to the fact that wow has hard af content.

    Daddy D in a 2-2-6, HELL YEAH!!!! MOFO's!!! HELL F YEAH!!! it was so good, smiling for days after that take down, haven't been that high since EQ2, all the practice, all the preparing, all the teamwork.

    Oh POG cut scene ffxiv wow so exciting, lotro cool shire and one shot'n mobs, eso is just a disgrace, it literally feels like it's falling apart at the seams, enter wow... polished, rock solid, exceptional crisp graphics, fast loads, hard hard hard content YES like omg and BFA as an example is supreme content for solo players where you play along as stories are told, you interact not sit there for an entire evening watching never ending cut scenes, perfect game to watch through a console and lay down on the couch, and some love that, which is great.

    Just letting people know ffxiv isn't that great and they don't have to be a lemming and follow peeps like Asmond, or followers like yourself who play only whats popular, whether you like it or not is irrelevant, just following the popularity crowd, and you ask what's wrong with me is quite humorous and cute tbh cause you only need to look in to the mirror to find out what's truly wrong.
    Last edited by xpsync; 2021-07-19 at 04:40 PM.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by xpsync View Post
    Streamers come and go, some are around longer than others but overall i've noticed their shelf life isn't forever, that time in the spotlight fades fast as their audience matures, or they've made so much money they just don't care anymore and peeps lose interest, numerous reasons.

    Sure, you have supreme exceptions such as pie, but so many drift out of importance seemingly over night. People are people, and they be no different from you or I, their soapbox is just bigger for a time, in the end they walk away multimillionaires, and all thanks to people who wasted their time watching, whom then walk away chumps with nothing.

    I'm happy for people whom love ffxiv, for me i know what the game is like at the core and is not for me, wow is far superior to me in every conceivable way being a EQ2 vet from the golden era of mmorpg's, rip EQ2 2004 - 2008.

    Absolutely hated on wow for a better part of decade for destroying the genre by flooding it with "i want it now" casuals, wow is and will always be the destroyer of worlds.

    Years back went through the whole being a pinball bouncing from mmo to a new mmo every other week era, and eso, ffxiv, lotro just never made the cut, way to "push button i win" as long as your credit card is on tap, then short story short i was luckily awakened to the fact that wow has hard af content.

    Daddy D in a 2-2-6, HELL YEAH!!!! MOFO's!!! HELL F YEAH!!! it was so good, smiling for days after that take down, haven't been that high since EQ2, all the practice, all the preparing, all the teamwork.

    Oh POG cut scene ffxiv wow so exciting, lotro cool shire and one shot'n mobs, eso is just a disgrace, it literally feels like it's falling apart at the seams, enter wow... polished, rock solid, exceptional crisp graphics, fast loads, hard hard hard content YES like omg and BFA as an example is supreme content for solo players where you play along as stories are told, you interact not sit there for an entire evening watching never ending cut scenes, perfect game to watch through a console and lay down on the couch, and some love that, which is great.

    Just letting people know ffxiv isn't that great and they don't have to be a lemming and follow peeps like Asmond, or followers like yourself who play only whats popular, whether you like it or not is irrelevant, just following the popularity crowd, and you ask what's wrong with me is quite humorous and cute tbh cause you only need to look in to the mirror to find out what's truly wrong.
    You sound high AF....

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    You sound high AF....
    What they say must be true for people like you, Truth hurts. ouch for you.

    If you love playing games on autopilot that's fine, nothing wrong with that, just don't know what compels you to lash out at others over it, you got your paradise game you should be happy?

    Think about it, you can buy anything you want on the cash shop, HECK you can even PAY to SKIP all the content, my dude you should be jumping for joy, and not angry at the world. Enter your cc and enjoy paying your way, it's what you've been begging for all these years and now it's here, can't understand why you'd be so upset?

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by xpsync View Post
    What they say must be true for people like you, Truth hurts. ouch for you.

    If you love playing games on autopilot that's fine, nothing wrong with that, just don't know what compels you to lash out at others over it, you got your paradise game you should be happy?

    Think about it, you can buy anything you want on the cash shop, HECK you can even PAY to SKIP all the content, my dude you should be jumping for joy, and not angry at the world. Enter your cc and enjoy paying your way, it's what you've been begging for all these years and now it's here, can't understand why you'd be so upset?
    I meant the way you're speaking. You sound like one of those super high AF hippies who talk about some profound revelation they came to about the world and are trying to share it with people, and everyone who isn't also high has to get a translator to try and understand the point.

  13. #513
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I meant the way you're speaking. You sound like one of those super high AF hippies who talk about some profound revelation they came to about the world and are trying to share it with people, and everyone who isn't also high has to get a translator to try and understand the point.
    Oh good, I thought I was the only one who thought that while reading the post.

  14. #514
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Which is a fair criticism, but that's part of what people discuss when making adjustments. Does everyone HAVE to be forced to experience all that text and everything else associated with the MSQ?

    My experience says "no" as I know many people who skip everything they can, don't care about story at all, focus almost entirely on the group content and STILL enjoy the game.

    All they're asking for are options. I'm not necessarily opposed to that idea, so long as it doesn't change my experience. I like and am fine with the game as it is, mostly.
    Well, the option to skip the story does exist even if it costs money so I think it would be possible to just unlock stuff as you level up as other games but that's not a philosophy the designers want to encourage, it seems
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  15. #515
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    They are both MMOs, they both operate around retaining players for a long time for either subs or MTX juice or both, they both fill their games with various tricks and shticks to do so. Some like tricks of the game A and some like tricks of the game B.

    This is such a silly and a completely subjective argument. It's really down to what every person likes and prefers.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Well, the option to skip the story does exist even if it costs money so I think it would be possible to just unlock stuff as you level up as other games but that's not a philosophy the designers want to encourage, it seems
    For now at least. We'll see how things go moving forward after Endwalker.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I meant the way you're speaking. You sound like one of those super high AF hippies who talk about some profound revelation they came to about the world and are trying to share it with people, and everyone who isn't also high has to get a translator to try and understand the point.
    Ahh ummm ok...

    /looks left and right
    OK peeps, just smile at katchii, back up real slow like, whatever you do, DO NOT make any sudden moves, just keep smiling like everything is normal then about 10 feet out run for your f'ing life...

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    It's not a fair comparison because you don't complete a raid but a single boss fight which takes like 5 minutes.
    When you say "you have to beat Nzoth on normal" a WoW player will connect that to the trash fights and the whole raid - not just the last fight of the raid which a lot of players probably want to see in the first place because they are usually pretty nice and fun to do.
    Considering the number of trials and dungeons you do just trying to get to Heavensward it is a bit fair.

    Just to get out of ARR content you need to complete:
    Thornmarch (Hard)
    The Whorleater (Hard)
    The Striking Tree (Hard)
    Snowcloak
    Akh Afah Amphitheatre (Hard)
    The Keeper of the Lake
    The Chrysalis
    The Steps of Faith

    6 trials and 2 dungeons and doesn't include the 13 required group instances while leveling.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    So to fill the downtime created by completing most of the activities in 8.2, as well as to clear the bad taste playing wow classic has left in my mouth, I decided to jump in and try out FF14. I've always been a great fan of FF games, so the thought of playing those old school jobs in an mmo setting and riding chocobos seemed kind of cool to me. One of my mates also plays it which gave me an additional incentive to try it.

    I'm a person who gets a kick out of leveling things up, collecting stuff and all that, so every game that allows you to do that will provide me with some sort of entertainment. And I had a fair share of fun playing FF14 btw, about 3 weeks of fun to be precise. There's a lot of good things in the game, and overall it is an mmo, and everyone who enjoys that kind of gameplay will enjoy it to an extent. In this thread I will be focusing on the negatives, but that does not mean I hate the game. I wanted to make this very clear because fanboys are often unable to understand that.

    At some point however, all the gameplay problems started to mar my experience to the point where I no longer feel the need to log in to play anymore. I stopped playing the game 5 levels away from the cap (at 75) because it's just unpleasant to play it now. It also made me realize how much I value some aspects of a game, ones that I normally don't think about. With that said, let me enumerate the biggest problems I encountered.

    alright, i'm gonna do some speculations, because who doesn't love making a strawman out of ones opponent during an argument/debate.

    now, from the info you give in your intro, as well as that i can gather from point 1 and 3 you most likely play either a Monk or a Dragoon.
    so, with that info we can get a better understanding as to why the sodium in your post has piled up as much as it has.

    so let me start by saying that everything in your post is but an opinion, from you not liking how the combat is structured, to you not understanding how a Queue system works in conjunction with server capacities.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    1. The combat

    ...is awful. Much like Rift, Swtor and all the other usual suspects in the past, it just feels clunky. It's one of those things that are hard to put into words. It's just not as smooth and fluid as you'd like. It feels like there are unnecessary delays between you using a skill on your keyboard and the character actually executing the command.

    The other thing is that the rotations are extremely bloated as you advance your level. FF14 is a good example of what happens when you don't do the so called "ability pruning" that all the elitist players criticise so much in wow. At max level, or even slightly below the max level, your rotations include about 20-25 skills. And that is not including AOE skills, utility skills etc. It's just the single target rotation. I'm sure someone will argue that using 25 skills in a rotation is fun, but to me it's really not. It makes it hard to pick up a class because unless you're a gaming professor you will have a hard time learning it. It also makes it ridiculously hard to optimize your gameplay, let alone min-max, which is downright impossible. Using your actual rotation on anything outside of a dungeon boss? You wish. You'll just have to settle for using a couple random skills, using a fraction of your potential on those non-boss things. As far as the number of skills, combat below level 50 at best feels okay, afterwards it's just too much filler stuff in your rotation.

    The funny thing is I didn't even think combat would matter so much, because I am mostly interested in other areas of an mmo, but it turns out that a bad enough combat system can turn you away from a game even if you aren't combat oriented.

    no job/class has a 20/25 single targets spell/skill rotation. though assuming you play Dragoon i see why you feel like they do, seeing as how they're the only class with a 5 step combo. on average every DPS job/class has between 1 and 2 single target combos of roughly 3 attacks, and between 3 and 5 O-GCD's and/or job specific mechanics which either have a 15/45 second cooldown. or work with a builder/spender mechanic.

    the main difference, and what i assume is the REAL issue you're having with FF14's combat, is that FF14's combat is Pro-active, predetermined and rigid, you have to set up your rotation and get yourself in position to perform your combo's. and use your job mechanics at the perfect opportunity to get the maximum out of your special DPS window. where as WoW combat is a lot more Re-active, chance based and free flowing. X happens, now you have to do Y. but Z could also happen, then you have to go back to A.

    also, if we want to talk about optimized gameplay and min/maxing. it's a lot easier to do that in FF14 than it is in WoW. mostly because FF14 doesn't have any DPS based chance on hit effect. you either perform X action and it does Y or you don't.
    there's no windfury procs, no multi strikes, no "chance" to freeze target in place. or "chance" to make your next X spell free and 100% crit. if an attack reduces the cooldown of another attack, or gives you X resource it just does that. it only rarely throws those casino like possibilities your way.
    so that combined with the predetermined boss movements makes FF14 a lot better at allowing optimized min/maxing than WoW.

    so FF14's combat isn't bad, it's just different. and it will take time, for some people more than others, to get used to it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    2. Leveling and alts

    MSQ Leveling is a bit weird, but it's fast and varied, which is good. Myself I am not a plot-person so I don't care at all what the game's story is about and thus I skipped every cutscene ever. Somewhat enjoyed all the leveling of my main job still, because at least it took me around the world, through all the zones, and it was close to the questing/leveling experience I know from other games. No problems here.

    However, the real problem is the leveling of your alt jobs. Now some people will probably scratch their heads and start telling me how fast it is and all that...okay, I don't disagree, it may be fast, but fast does not equal entertaining or interesting. Quite the contrary, leveling alt jobs is pure pain in FF14. You use your main character for all of the jobs, and you can only do quests once per character, which means that you are pretty much left with the following methods for leveling up your alt jobs/classes:

    -levequests (incredibly boring repetable quests, which are also capped hourly to make it even worse and stop you from doing them all the time)
    -doing dungeons over and over (only really viable for tank and healer jobs)
    -a dungeon crawler mini game that you can do over and over for levels

    While those methods may be quick, they are an absolute and complete pain. I managed to level an alt tank job to a level of about 40 or so through dungeons which is where I felt I am done with it and can take no more of the same dungeons over and over. The whole system seems to be designed with blocking grinds in mind. You are supposed to just do a daily roulette once per day and level your alt job that way, over the course of like 100 days.

    okay, cudo's for actually saying that you skip cutscene's and care little for the lore and not complaining about not understanding the story. plenty of people skip and then later bitch about not understanding why it is they're tasked to go do X or Y ingame.

    now,
    no MMO has gotten level alt jobs down to a point where it doesn't feel like a chore. this includes your little precious WoW, leveling alts will always be a chore. but! let's take a look at all the different ways you can level an alt in FF14.

    now, it seems the list of possible ways to level an alt job is missing some options. lets add them shall we?

    -beast tribe dailies. "yeah but they're dailies, you can't spam them. and the ARR beast tribe dailies hardly give any EXP" fair point, but they are an option.

    -fate grind. it's like WoW's world quests, but more straight forward and faster with a shorter respawn times for each Fate)

    -side quests. yes, all those side quests you skipped cause the MSQ gave you enough EXP to keep going, now's a good time to grab some. you can even do them on your max level job/class and deliver them on your lower level alt job/class for easy completion. or combine them with other options from this list. can't do that in WoW.

    -hunting log/grand company hunting log. every ARR combat job/class has it's own hunting log which gives a decent chunk of EXP up to level 50. best part is, you can usually combine it with other EXP farm/grind methods like fate grind or side quests for a little extra EXP boost. the grand company you join will also offer the same hunting log but for different targets, and it can be completed on any class/job, though only once in total.

    -hunting board. not to be confused with the hunting log, these are weekly wanted quests for certain enemies. the easy ones are pretty common and the harder ones will need a group, but you'll find "hunt trains" if you look/ask around that go around and kill all of an expansions larger Hunting Board targets every couple of hours.

    wonderous tales in HW you'll meet a little girl called Zoe. who, every week, wants to hear all about your epic tales of slaying primals and conquering dungeons. she'll give you a special book with 16 tasks. complete a task to get a sticker. complete 9 and return it to her for a massive amount of EXP and rewards based on which stickers you unlocked. best part about this? you can do all the tasks in the book on a max level character, you'll even get reroll options for the book if you complete a dungeon/trial/raid with someone in the group who hasn't done that specific dungeon/trial/raid yet. which will allow you to reopen a completed task by shifting it's completed status to another, random, incomplete task.

    daily duty roulette daily duty roulette's for trials, dungeons, leveling and raids will give a decent EXP chunk. yes, they are only daily and yes you can only do them at or above the minimum appropriate level. but most can be queue'd for at level 50+. which makes the 50 to 80 grind a bit more diverse. combine this with Fate grind, Beast tribe dailies, hunting log, hunting board or leve quests to keep yourself busy while waiting for the Queue to pop.

    grand company adventure squadron command missions now there's a mouth full. once you reach Second Lieutenant rank with your grand company you'll be tasked with recruiting fresh blood for the grand company. you'll also be required to get these new rookies into fighting shape. which means, you guessed it, sending them on quests/missions based on their level/team composition to level them up. you can get a total of 8 recruits, each with a job/class that corresponds to any of the ARR jobs without a soul crystal. so things like marauder, conjurer, pugilist, archer. once they reach a high enough level you can even grab 3 of them and take them through some of the ARR dungeons with you. their performance and innate power based on the perks you've unlocked for them from their dispatched missions. you can even get them to a point where you can comfortably stand back and let them complete the entire dungeon by following/guiding them from mob pack to boss to mob pack without attacking once yourself. there's also no queue time and you even get full EXP like you are doing the dungeon normally.

    point is, every MMO makes alt leveling feel like a chore. but FF14 has vastly more options to level alt jobs than WoW.
    and that's not even pointing out the passive EXP bonus you get because you have a job/class of a level higher than your alt, and the EXP boost items you can use like food, scrolls, manuals. all of which can be obtained through ingame means.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    3. Queues are ridiculous, even during the peak hours.

    It's no surprise that playing DPS results in long queue times, but even trying to queue up for a trial from the current expansion, that is required for a MSQ quest can take up to an HOUR. The game is only playable if you have a friend who can tank/heal for you, otherwise you have to wait for like an hour, and your best bet is to just do something else (but that something else can't be playing an alt job, because the best way to level that up is doing dungeons, and you can't queue for another thing at the same time).

    It's pretty funny, because while I never believed all the talk about FF14 killing WoW, all the voices make you think and consider the possibility that the game is pretty active. Again, reality turns out to be different than the forum rhetoric. If you have to wait up to 1 hour in queue as a dps for current obligatory MSQ content, that means barely anyone is playing it.

    o you sweat ignorant summer child. long Queue times for DPS classes are a staple of any MMO which has instance based area's. and those Queue times only go up, not down, the more people play the game.

    lets say that, on average, every job/class has the same amount of people playing it. so we'll take 5 for each job/class.
    now, FF14 has 4 tank job/classes. 3 healer job/classes and 10 DPS job/classes. (i know, there's 11. but Blue Mage can't Queue for content like other DPS classes so i won't count them.)
    so we have 20 tanks, 15 healers and 50 DPS all queue for dungeons.
    lets say you just decided to join the dungeon queue and everyone else already queue'd up, so you're #50 in the Queue.
    and lets say that every 5 minutes, 1 of each class/job joins the queue. so every 5 minutes 4 tanks 3 healers and 10 DPS join the queue.

    now, dungeons require a 1/1/2 setup. so 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 DPS. which means that, since healers are the least represented they'll all get instant Queue pops because there's always 1 tank and 2 DPS available for every healer.
    15 tanks get a Queue pop because there's 15 healers and plenty of DPS available to fill in the open spots. so 5 tanks are now waiting in the Queue for healers to join.
    and since every party need 2 DPS, 30 will instantly get a Queue pop and 20 will have to wait for new healers to join the Queue.
    5 minutes pass and the first group of new players join the Queue. 3 healers instantly pop their Queue tanking the front 3 tanks and 6 DPS from their respective Queue's
    1 tank is added to the back of the tank Queue, putting the new total tank Queue at 6, cause 5 + 4 - 3 = 6.
    4 new DPS get added to the total DPS Queue putting the new total of DPS in the Queue to 24. cause 20 + 10 - 6 = 24.
    your spot in the Queue after 5 minutes is now 14.
    another 5 minutes pass and another group joins. again. 4 tanks, 3 healers and 10 DPS.
    we cycle through the same riddle again and now we end up with 28 DPS in their Queue. 7 tanks and 0 healers, because they're the least played/most wanted.
    your position in the Queue is now 8.
    another 5 minutes go by, we add another tank to their Queue and 4 more DPS to their respective Queue. totaling 8 Tanks and 32 DPS.
    your position is now #2 in the queue. 15 minutes have passed since you entered the Queue with everyone else from a 0 point.
    5 more minutes pass, another influx. 1 tank is added to the Queue for a total of 9. 4 more DPS join pushing their total to 36.
    you're Queue pop's after 20 minutes. you get to go and do your dungeon. 15 minutes pass and you complete your dungeon. you decide to solo Queue up again for another one.
    there's now 12 tanks in the Queue. 47 DPS, you join as the 48th. it'll take roughly 40 minutes for your Queue to pop from the moment you joined.

    and that is assuming this static increase and applying tanks and healers liberally. it's actually more skewed in terms of how many DPS there are compared to tanks/healers, that combined with a mixed Queue system. where some Queue's encompass ALL dungeons from level 15 to 79. some only focus on the level 50, 60 and 70 dungeons. some only offer level 80 dungeons. some only offer you Trials. and some only Raids.

    there's also server overload we need to account for. if every 5 minutes 3 new groups join but the first groups don't leave until after 15 minutes. and the max amount of groups the instance server can handle is 20. then 10 minutes after the innitial groups have joined even healers will start to have an occasional 5 minute queue because the instance server just can't handle that bump in connections.

    but hey, there's actually a reasonably easy fix for your problem, you know. the 1 thing that MMO's allow you to do that other types of games usually don't...
    ASK FOR HELP.

    if you're below level 80 and haven't finished the MSQ in it's completion, you have access to something called the Novice Network. suck up your pride and prejudice and curb your "but i want to do it my way" attitude and just ask them "hey, i need to do X for the story. but i'm a DPS and the queue is over 30 minutes long, would someone be willing to join as a tank or healer to help me skip this wait?" no is the baseline answer which you have, even if you didn't ask. but the chances of getting a yes are exponentially larger than if you just sit there is single silence expecting the world to revolve around you.
    or do you also play WoW solo? if so you should know that Queue times suck for DPS regardless of which MMO, that uses the trinity system, you play. so saying FF14's Queue's take to long, even for mandatory content, is a bit of a petty argument seeing how FF14's actually has content. even if it's over 10 years old, it's still valid content.

    also, you CAN play an alt job/class whilst waiting for your MSQ Queue to pop. just that you can't Queue them for dungeons whilst your Main is waiting for theirs.
    there's still plenty to do on Alts while waiting for that Queue, as you can see in the retort to point 2.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    4. Professions are done horribly

    So with this one I don't have much hands-on experience, because after researching how those things work in FF14 I decided not to even try. Profession skills such as mining, cooking etc. work as a separate class, so they lower your level to 1. It is an interesting concept, but also means you have to switch jobs whenever you want to partake in those activities (because you will get one shot by any mob otherwise). To pile up onto that, you have mining rotations, which you have to use correctly, or you risk failing the mining activity (I mean really?).

    There were some other minor things that got on my nerves, many of those probably more subjective so I won't be talking about them too much. Dungeon encounter design, un-obvious boss mechanics, UI bugs, the horrid TRUST system (doing dungeons with NPCs which takes like 1 hour longer than a normal party), retainers instead of a regular deposit place, market interface, confusing housing system.

    Crafting in FF14 isn't for everyone, but it IS there as an option. the fact that you have such a strong opinion about it without ever trying it makes your opinion about it completely void and invalid, sorry. even if that opinion was nothing but positive praise.
    i'd urge you to try out 1 gathering and 1 crafting job before you judge them based on the little research and hearsay you've formed your opinion on.

    yes, gatherers and crafters do start out at level 1. but crafters rarely have to venture outside of capitol cities or crystal based towns. and gatherers get passive skills which make them invisible to enemies, allowing them to casually stroll past any hostile mob and pick clean any gathering node without the fear of getting attacked.
    so your worries are unfounded and ill informed.

    as for the other minor things, yeah i can understand some of them.
    the un-obvious boss mechanics are pretty much there as a learning experience. since most mechanics do make a return in later dungeon/trial boss fights in the same form, allowing you to adjust accordingly even if you never fought that boss before. but the first time you encounter them can be tricky. most telegraphs, however, are pretty obvious after a couple of tries and paying attention. and there's plenty of guides on youtube on how to deal with boss mechanics/dungeons. same as WoW.

    the Trust system is a bit meh and takes a bit to long. but considering it was available right at the start of the expansion, they couldn't very well make it as fast as normal dungeon Queueing. cause if they did then they might as well remove the MMO part from the game entirely. and seeing as how you've complained about the long Queue times for DPS classes, this IS a valid option to continue some of the mandatory story content and level your alt jobs without having the spend 1 hour in the Queue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    In the end...it's just one of those games. It's fun for a while to take a break and play it. It will just make you appreciate and enjoy the proper MMORPG more once you go back to it full time.

    the king has been dethroned.
    WoW is a chore which treats you like a number on a spreadsheet, where "engagement metrics" determine how fast they'll allow you to obtain things. and fun is distilled and boiled down till it has evaporated into how much of a sluggish grind you're willing to put up with before they toss you a hand full of whatever arbitrary currency they can think of. not enough for anything meaningful. but just enough to make you come back each week to do it again. whilst they lock the cool upgrades behind casino like structures. where even the wins, astronomically small as they are, feel hollow and unsatisfying.
    where the rockstar ego devs openly berate and belittle their fans/player base for any constructive feedback they might have given them, whilst they and their hardcore fans/grifters are so high on Copeium they make Charlie Sheen look permanently sober.
    and where they've tried and failed time and time again to pressure wash the writing off the wall.

    FF14?
    is a vacation where i'm asked every now and then if i would like a refill.
    where excursions are free, ungated and rewarded. where i'm happily surprised by the untold extra's i get just from being there, and my concerns aren't ignored and tossed aside.
    sure, i had to get on a plane and navigate a couple of airports. but right now, i'm on vacation. and i'm enjoying it immensely.
    Last edited by Short; 2021-07-19 at 08:23 PM.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Can you get progress the MSQ without doing them, yes or no?
    Can you progress to m+ or raiding and be viable without renown yes or no.

    People like you is the reason why we need prowing grounds back.

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