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  1. #41
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    A lot of people are still thinking of the Shadowlands as a spiritual realm, analogous to the afterlife realms of most religions and so forth. In terms of the WoW cosmology, the Shadowlands (like the Twisting Nether) is actually a real and physical place - basically a different plane akin to the elemental planes like the Firelands or Deepholm, and while it has different rules it is functionally material. As for Maldraxxus and Necromancy, it seems to function pretty much the same as it does in our (the PC's) universe, except with the caveat that destruction of the soul is permanent in the Shadowlands, as there is nowhere else for souls to go unlike in our universe (where they shift to the Shadowlands after a time). Construct bodies appear to protect and preserve the soul to a degree, making it possible for them to be transferred from construct to construct. What's more confusing to me is individuals like Draka, Vashj, or Mograine - who appear to be themselves, more or less how they were in life, and not really constructs like the various abominations or other beings in Maldraxxus who look like more typical undead.

    Necromancy in the Shadowlands is more about giving an entity additional armor and/or weaponry via housing them in a weapons platform as opposed to just restoring them to physicality after death. To the same extent, you could say the Kyrians are themselves Necromantic constructs of a sort, in that they are new bodies or forms created to house the souls of those judged to Bastion by the Arbiter. Same with Venthyr who were previously mortals. I would've probably not reused the term "Necromancy" for what the Maldraxxi do in favor of another term like Soulsmithing or Spiritshaping - which doesn't have the same connotations as the Necromancy we're used to and more accurately describes what the Maldraxxi are actually doing with their constructs.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-07-19 at 02:35 PM.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  2. #42
    Just gotta accept that WoW is gameplay first and consistant storytelling is an afterthought at this point.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by NoiseTank13 View Post
    While I agree that people on MMO Champ would be just as if not moreso qualified to write for Blizzard than Danuser, you honestly just sound like one of those weirdo's who subscribe to Alpha/Sigma sexual hierarchy unironically and that kinda is super cringe.
    Should I know what your last point was about? I’ve never heard of it and kinda don’t want to if it’s one of those looney tunes Twitter verse theories.

  4. #44
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    *sigh* This whole mess could be so easily avoided if they just bothered to think things through.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    A lot of people are still thinking of the Shadowlands as a spiritual realm, analogous to the afterlife realms of most religions and so forth. In terms of the WoW cosmology, the Shadowlands (like the Twisting Nether) is actually a real and physical place - basically a different plane akin to the elemental planes like the Firelands or Deepholm, and while it has different rules it is functionally material. As for Maldraxxus and Necromancy, it seems to function pretty much the same as it does in our (the PC's) universe, except with the caveat that destruction of the soul is permanent in the Shadowlands, as there is nowhere else for souls to go unlike in our universe (where they shift to the Shadowlands after a time). Construct bodies appear to protect and preserve the soul to a degree, making it possible for them to be transferred from construct to construct. What's more confusing to me is individuals like Draka, Vashj, or Mograine - who appear to be themselves, more or less how they were in life, and not really constructs like the various abominations or other beings in Maldraxxus who look like more typical undead.

    Necromancy in the Shadowlands is more about giving an entity additional armor and/or weaponry via housing them in a weapons platform as opposed to just restoring them to physicality after death. To the same extent, you could say the Kyrians are themselves Necromantic constructs of a sort, in that they are new bodies or forms created to house the souls of those judged to Bastion by the Arbiter. Same with Venthyr who were previously mortals. I would've probably not reused the term "Necromancy" for what the Maldraxxi do in favor of another term like Soulsmithing or Spiritshaping - which doesn't have the same connotations as the Necromancy we're used to and more accurately describes what the Maldraxxi are actually doing with their constructs.
    Danuser is a functional adult, I am sure he can make excuses himself.

  6. #46
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Danuser is a functional adult, I am sure he can make excuses himself.
    I'm sure he can - I'm just explaining how the Shadowlands function, and how their form of Necromancy appears to work, albeit with some elements I can't quite quantify with the given ruleset as explained above.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  7. #47
    My question is this: what happens to dead people in the Shadowlands who are raised, by necromancy, back into Azeroth? Do they disappear from the Shadowlands? What happens to their memories and abilities gained there? Why do we never hear about this happening?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    A lot of people are still thinking of the Shadowlands as a spiritual realm, analogous to the afterlife realms of most religions and so forth. In terms of the WoW cosmology, the Shadowlands (like the Twisting Nether) is actually a real and physical place - basically a different plane akin to the elemental planes like the Firelands or Deepholm, and while it has different rules it is functionally material. As for Maldraxxus and Necromancy, it seems to function pretty much the same as it does in our (the PC's) universe, except with the caveat that destruction of the soul is permanent in the Shadowlands, as there is nowhere else for souls to go unlike in our universe (where they shift to the Shadowlands after a time). Construct bodies appear to protect and preserve the soul to a degree, making it possible for them to be transferred from construct to construct. What's more confusing to me is individuals like Draka, Vashj, or Mograine - who appear to be themselves, more or less how they were in life, and not really constructs like the various abominations or other beings in Maldraxxus who look like more typical undead.

    Necromancy in the Shadowlands is more about giving an entity additional armor and/or weaponry via housing them in a weapons platform as opposed to just restoring them to physicality after death. To the same extent, you could say the Kyrians are themselves Necromantic constructs of a sort, in that they are new bodies or forms created to house the souls of those judged to Bastion by the Arbiter. Same with Venthyr who were previously mortals. I would've probably not reused the term "Necromancy" for what the Maldraxxi do in favor of another term like Soulsmithing or Spiritshaping - which doesn't have the same connotations as the Necromancy we're used to and more accurately describes what the Maldraxxi are actually doing with their constructs.
    My sense is that all souls are naturally drawn to a "point", like water to a leak in a giant bathtub. It is at this point that someone built the machinery of death to intercept souls as they pass thru. My current head canon is that, in some ancient forgotten war, the Void Lords punched a hole in reality at this point. The Void Lords were beaten back, but the hole remained and it was drawing souls thru it. So the death machine was required to plug the leak. "True death" is to pass thru the hole, where the Void Lords get your soul and do something with it.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  9. #49
    So the forces of 'death' are kind of charlatans. They pose as avatars of an ineffable cosmic force but nothing present there is the 'natural' way that death is supposed to go. They're all kind of like Odin (and wow's Odyn for the matter) and are preventing souls from going to the true (and perhaps unknowable) afterlife to raise as a force for a cosmic conflict. That's the kind of vibe I got from the beginning.

  10. #50
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Its actually very clear how necromancy works. All necromancers just summon giant invisible hand that floats over undead and pull the strings. Premium version is also ventriloquist so they can talk.

  11. #51
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    My sense is that all souls are naturally drawn to a "point", like water to a leak in a giant bathtub. It is at this point that someone built the machinery of death to intercept souls as they pass thru. My current head canon is that, in some ancient forgotten war, the Void Lords punched a hole in reality at this point. The Void Lords were beaten back, but the hole remained and it was drawing souls thru it. So the death machine was required to plug the leak. "True death" is to pass thru the hole, where the Void Lords get your soul and do something with it.
    That might explain the original purpose of the Arbiter and the mechanism that "draws" souls to the Shadowlands upon death in our reality. Part and parcel of the whole "ordering" thing that the First Ones did to bring functionality to the metacosm, more or less. I like to think that prior to the First Ones there was simply a massive conflict between the Light and the Void, the primordial essences of the primitive cosmos, and that left the metacosm a broken shambles until the First Ones created a number of transcendent machines or constructs to fix the metacosm, isolating the forces into their own realms and setting up the machinery to control the flow of essences, energies, and anima into the system we see today in the Warcraft metacosm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xez View Post
    My question is this: what happens to dead people in the Shadowlands who are raised, by necromancy, back into Azeroth? Do they disappear from the Shadowlands? What happens to their memories and abilities gained there? Why do we never hear about this happening?
    Hard to say. Based on the whole convoluted "rope" analogy, it would seem those souls do disappear from the Shadowlands and return to the main reality with their memories of the Shadowlands missing. One could argue that until the Scourge that true Necromancy was very rare, and that the Scourge didn't really bother overmuch with raising the bodies of the ancient dead inasmuch as they did those who died of the Plague of Undeath (whose souls were necessarily prevented from going to the Shadowlands to begin with). The raising of the long-dead does occur, though, such as with Thoras Trollbane in Legion - if he has any memories of the Shadowlands he doesn't seem to speak of it, and it's unknown where he may have dwelled prior to being raised into undeath.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  12. #52
    Probably wasn't on his mind, his focus with undead seems to be "how can my self insert have sex with them?" instead. Priorities of the coomer.

  13. #53
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    "I will address this in future content"

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/steve-d...ands-vs-323425

    Prepare for a future retcon.
    what are you talking about? hes not saying "i will adress this in future content" he says "In any case, I agree the wording for that text is unclear. It will be clarified in a future update."
    They are going to change the quest text to be more clear.

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    I love how this ENTIRE thread is complaining about something that is not real cause yall cant read.
    he literally explains how it works and says "i will update the text to say so in future update" but yall cant read so you instead read that as "i dont know how it works, i will figure out something in the future"
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  14. #54
    Do you think they made people that die in Shadowlands die for good because they wanted to get rid of Garrosh from the game for good?

  15. #55
    Calling everything that's not known being explained later a retcon is quite dumb.

    There's also a lot of information told by unreliable narrators that people take as truth, then when the unreliable narrators turn out to have either lied or to not have known the truth its also parroted as being retcon.

    He also did not say what you're quoting, he said their explanation of how it works is unclear, not that it is unclear to them how it works.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Making an expansion about the afterlife was a mistake, 9.0 should have been about N'Zoth's Black Empire.
    Long ago I remember speculation, based on the light comic with her sisters, that Sylvanas somehow learned being undead makes you resistant/immune to void corruption; and that she started the BFA war intending to raise an undead army large enough to face the Black Empire in 9.0.

    The story I would have prefered.

  17. #57
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    3 pages of reading comprehension fails with no end in sight. But hey, any chance to pile on to trash WoW's current state, right?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Meddling with the afterlife and time-walking is never a good idea, especially if you don't really realize the outcome untill it happens...
    Id say both of these ideas can work, but only if its the main plot of the entire story you want to tell.
    Not if its only a small part of a much larger universe, where the main story is something completely different.
    Almost every good movie/book/game about time travel/afterlife that ive seen, focused solely on said topic and was self-contained. Throwing it into a pre-existing, big fantasy universe like warcraft will always lead to a confusing, contradicting shitshow.
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

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  19. #59
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Making an expansion about the afterlife was a mistake, 9.0 should have been about N'Zoth's Black Empire.
    agree
    N'zoth deserves his own exp
    who the FUCK thought that his underling get his own exp, that shatters azeroth itself, and the big boss, the biggest threat of all old gods, the biggest manipulator of all azeorth timeline, get a single fucking patch in the WORST exp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentaldemise View Post
    Didn't we have an entire expansion about this a few years ago.

    Wrath of the.....something with the ....something king?

    Definitely hasn't been touched on before in WoW lore.

    Seriously how does he get paid six figures.
    relatives...
    the feminazi woke writer who wrote pre-SL shit novel is a cousin of one of current blizz higher ups, was exposed and blizz answer was ... absolutely nothing, we can go fuck ourselves and they won't give a fuck, they hired someone who is racist anti-white men and open about it, to make wow lore
    then again the head lore writer is a guy who has a body pillow of a character in wow, so i don't think blizz gives a single fuck about how biased their writers are
    I do NOT know if Danasur is relative to anyone in power, but honestly it will explain a LOT about how he got in position and why blizz tolerate the worst writer ever, he is the worst toxic fan who got in power, a "Misery" (if u saw that movie) status of fan, he needs serious medical care, not giving full control of lore direction

    regarding topic: I was under impression necromancy is clear since 1994 in warcraft, heck it is clear in D&D and that is over 40 years older than warcraft exist, why would they now be confused about it?
    I smell another waifu Sylvanas shoved in our throats, well our asses since our throats already full of sylvanas shoving

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Meddling with the afterlife and time-walking is never a good idea, especially if you don't really realize the outcome untill it happens...
    time-walk was perfect in TBC/Wrath, just old dungeon, go visit, leave, a tourist visit, nothing else, u literally can't do anything but just a tourist visit
    that worked perfect
    from WoD however it became total bullshit
    So it can work if u use it as tourism voyage, it doesn't work if u make it impact anything at all
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Overlordd View Post
    "I will address this in future content"

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/steve-d...ands-vs-323425

    Prepare for a future retcon.
    Love how his answer makes no sense with a quest in game showing the construct made of Kyrian parts keeping its memories.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

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