Domination Magic: Light over Death?

[username993720]

Does anyone else feel like domination magic would have better fitted the Light rather than Death?

Seeing Anduin as a robotic Death Knight kinda kills the fantasy, for me.


I mean, i understand how puny creatures like undead could be dominated through that blue glow:


But, Death Knights? i mean, the whole point about putting on the Helm of Domination is being corrupted and falling to whispers, at least for me, rather than being fully controlled like a robot.


However, when it comes to Light worshippers, i can definitely see them being brainwashed into being mindless robotic zombies.


I can see them having this golden glow in their eyes as a sign of their conversion to the forces of the Light. Something like chanting in a robotic unison: "The Light is good. The Light is benevolent. Join us. Embrace the Light Mother." - like some kind of a creepy cult.


Perhaps, this kind of magic is foreshadowing for how a Light-centric expansion would go about? I mean, there's no way they won't be trying to convert us, and would definitely have some aspect of control over those converted (not in a corruptive way).

I, personally, see the Lightbound marching in perfect formation and unison, eyes glowing gold, chanting together as a choir how we should give ourselves in to the Light.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I've traded my freedom for power before. My destiny is my own OP.

[Varodoc]

The Naaru or potential Light Lords will be pushed as the "main threats pulling the strings" when the inevitable Light expansion drops, therefore it will be revealed that it was actually a Naaru or a Light Lord who taught Zovaal how to use Domination magic, who then made it his own.

"The Light has made a bargain with the enemy of all."

You know it's kind of funny when you think about it, in the end the Void is the force that promotes the most freedom in the Warcraft franchise. Even Life has a habit of literally planting spores in someone's brain to mind-control them (see WoD dungeon), but the Void never does literal mind-control. See Deathwing and Azshara, who are completely morphed and twisted by the Void, but retain their free will (which in Deathwing's case translated to total madness).

And, as a side note, whenever I hear Liadrin speak, I am reminded of a robot with no agency.

[username993720]

I've traded my freedom for power before. My destiny is my own OP.

Nice Illidan quote.

But, for real, how do you feel about it?

The Naaru or potential Light Lords will be pushed as the "main threats pulling the strings" when the inevitable Light expansion drops, therefore it will be revealed that it was actually a Naaru or a Light Lord who taught Zovaal how to use Domination magic, which then made it his own.

"The Light has made a bargain with the enemy of all."

WoW, i never thought about it. Cool...
But, how did Light domination magic become blue Runic one?

You know it's kind of funny when you think about it, in the end the Void is the force that promotes the most freedom in the Warcraft franchise. Even Life has a habit of literally planting spores in someone's brain to mind-control them (see WoD dungeon), but the Void never does literal mind-control. See Deathwing and Azshara, who are completely morphed and twisted by the Void, but retain their free will (which in Deathwing's case translated to total madness).

And, as I side note, whenever I hear Liadrin speak, I am reminded of a robot with no agency.

Priests, literally, have an ability called "Mind Control", so i wouldn't say so...

[Varodoc]

But, how did Light domination magic became Blue runic one?

Blizzard in 2021: Jailer created Domination magic and uses it to dominate and jail people.

Blizzard in 2022 (Light expansion): Domination magic actually belongs to the Light and appears shiny, but the Naaru taught it to the Jailer as bargain, the Jailer thus learned his powers from the Naaru and modified them somewhat to appear blue.

^There, done.

This will happen since Blizzard literally said at one point that they don't care about continuity, so they will 100% retcon a few things here and there to build-up the Naaru as the ultimate masterminds. Just like how they built Janitor as the ultimate mastermind at the expense of Sargeras, Kil'jaeden, Ner'zhul...

Priests, literally, have an ability called "Mind Control", so i wouldn't say so...

Yeah but that ability was created like in 2003, back then Blizzard didn't even make a distinction between Fel, Death, Void, and just grouped everything under "Shadow/Darkness", so it's irrelevant.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Nice Illidan quote.

But, for real, how do you feel about it?

Couple of things:


1. I posted this in another thread but what we have seen so far of domination magic is the ability to mind control dominate the will of your target and control them at a whim, and to manifest physical as chains to grab things and/or bind things. I know it's been stated that this magic was originally used to bind the Jailer in the Maw (and over time he was able to use this magic as his own) but that still feeds into what we currently see it as.

2. The Light can achieve the same thing -- whether that is actual mind control or another form of will suppression -- as we have seen during the Mag'har Orc allied race scenario. But it seems the Lightbound still have autonomy over themselves. This comes off to me that certain magic/power has the ability to "dominate" wills to certain extents.


If you are asking that should the concept of domination be regulated to the Light only, I would say no, since they outcome comes off (to me, at least) different between the two.

[Varodoc]

And for the record OP, let it be known that Yrel and the Lightbound are not in the same state Anduin is. They're not straight up mind-controlled, so much so that you can find a sermon written by Yrel that shows she genuinely believes the Light will purify all; she has seen it in a vision granted to her by the Prime Naaru. And in the end she even calls Grommash "old friend", meaning that she isn't suppressed or mind-controlled or anything, she's simply deluded.

Though Liadrin does sound like a robot as I was saying earlier, but then again she has the personality of a robot so it's whatever.

[Houle]

Blizzard in 2021: Jailer created Domination magic and uses it to dominate and jail people.

actually, the jailer didnt create domination magic as far as we know. the primus was described as also being a master of it, and they used domination magic to bind zovaal in the maw.
he merely twisted it so he could use it as a weapon against the others. or, as the primus put it: "he forged his chains into a weapon"

[username993720]

Blizzard in 2021: Jailer created Domination magic and uses it to dominate and jail people.

Blizzard in 2022 (Light expansion): Domination magic actually belongs to the Light and appears shiny, but the Naaru taught it to the Jailer as bargain, the Jailer thus learned his powers from the Naaru and modified them somewhat to appear blue.

^There, done.

This will happen since Blizzard literally said at one point that they don't care about continuity, so they will 100% retcon a few things here and there to build-up the Naaru as the ultimate masterminds. Just like how they built Janitor as the ultimate mastermind at the expense of Sargeras, Kil'jaeden, Ner'zhul...

And, what did the Light get in return?

Yeah but that ability was created like in 2003, back then Blizzard didn't even make a distinction between Fel, Death, Void, and just grouped everything under "Shadow/Darkness", so it's irrelevant.

Yet, they haven't got rid of it. So, it should tell you something about it...

If you are asking that should the concept of domination be regulated to the Light only, I would say no, since they outcome comes off (to me, at least) different between the two.

What would be the difference?

And for the record OP, let it be known that Yrel and the Lightbound are not in the same state Anduin is. They're not straight up mind-controlled, so much so that you can find a sermon written by Yrel that shows she genuinely believes the Light will purify all; she has seen it in a vision granted to her by the Prime Naaru. And in the end she even calls Grommash "old friend", meaning that she isn't suppressed or mind-controlled or anything, she's simply deluded.

Though Liadrin does sound like a robot as I was saying earlier, but then again she has the personality of a robot so it's whatever.

Perhaps. But, a robotic mindset, i feel, does fit the Light way more than Death.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

What would be the difference?

That one seems to brainwash the individual and the other just seems to control them.

Perhaps. But, a robotic mindset, i feel, does fit the Light way more than Death.

I agree with this.

[Feanoro]

Evil always promises freedom, then delivers chains.

Good requires discipline, which many mistake for chains.

[Athorha]

Evil always promises freedom, then delivers chains.

Good requires discipline, which many mistake for chains.

Conception of good, duty, discipline requires purposeful direction / conception which could be considered chains on the soul.

If you want to avoid chains avoid good/bad dualities altogether as ideology in life, for character development in warcraft its pretty rawly shown.

[deviantcultist]

Evil always promises freedom, then delivers chains.

Good requires discipline, which many mistake for chains.

Sounds like something the Light would say in an RP setting to assert their "righteousness".

Labelling good and evil is unnecessary, plus you can accept some of both Light and Dark without giving in to the promise of either. A strong individual is comfortable with Dark as it is the key to overcoming the odds but one may also be open to the Light because this is the chance at peace and lasting bonds.

Both can chain you, although chains brought by the Light are far more insidious due to the fact that they are masked as "the right thing" or "virtue".... or "required discipline".

How much each force can do for you is obviously something open for philosophical debate. However, it is very fallacious to treat them as "Good vs Evil" and argue that the bad parts of Light are a "misunderstanding", while the good parts of Dark are deceptive and bad regardless.

PS. I used the term Light/Dark to refer to a more global philosophical term for them rather than Light/Void that is a WoW lore thing.

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Perhaps. But, a robotic mindset, i feel, does fit the Light way more than Death.

I feel vindicated to see that Light and Death are both enslaving forces. It was something I argued to people stuck in the ways of old school DnD who thought that Death is antithesis to Light (as if Void doesn't exist) and I always said that both Light and Death enforce tyranny as opposed to Void or other forces that are liberating or purely chaotic altogether.

[username993720]

That one seems to brainwash the individual and the other just seems to control them.

But, is Death really associated with control? and, before you say Undead, so does the Warlock with Demons, and Shaman with elementals.

I feel vindicated to see that Light and Death are both enslaving forces. It was something I argued to people stuck in the ways of old school DnD who thought that Death is antithesis to Light (as if Void doesn't exist) and I always said that both Light and Death enforce tyranny as opposed to Void or other forces that are liberating or purely chaotic altogether.

Light makes sense because of the new brainwash tyrannic agenda.
Death, much less so. Why would Death require domination magic?
I could see Life using it, with the Botani making plant zombies.

[deviantcultist]

Light makes sense because of the new brainwash tyrannic agenda.
Death, much less so. Why would Death require domination magic?
I could see Life using it, with the Botani making plant zombies.

Because unlike other cosmic forces, Light, Order and Death require individuals to act in predetermined ways in order to sustain a greater purpose or whatever they justify it as.

Life seeks growth and harmorny.
Void seeks to consume everything, which is devastating but it is not control.
Disorder seeks to destroy and break everything.

By alignment metrics, you can say that the first set of three are the "Lawful" forces and the latter are the "Chaotic" ones with reality being in the middle of everything.

[darkoms]

I think it's pretty interesting that Light and Void have some kind of effect on the mind. The Light makes you a fanatic, and the Void makes you mad.

[username993720]

Because unlike other cosmic forces, Light, Order and Death require individuals to act in predetermined ways in order to sustain a greater purpose or whatever they justify it as.

I can understand Order and Light.
Less so Death. Because Zovaal needs his forces to obey him? every force needs it.

I think it's pretty interesting that Light and Void have some kind of effect on the mind. The Light makes you a fanatic, and the Void makes you mad.

Actually, it was said that Light brought about feelings of hope, tranquility and peace while Void brought about feelings of fear, despair and anxiety.

[Raetary]

Actually, it was said that Light brought about feelings of hope, tranquility and peace while Void brought about feelings of fear, despair and anxiety.

None of that refutes what Darkoms said.

[darkoms]

I can understand Order and Light.
Less so Death. Because Zovaal needs his forces to obey him? every force needs it.



Actually, it was said that Light brought about feelings of hope, tranquility and peace while Void brought about feelings of fear, despair and anxiety.

In fact, Death is quite often considered to be something stubborn and opposed to Chaos.
You can see this in Warhammer FB / Aos where the Chaos Gods despise Nagash for the fact that he can rid the world of Chaos if he subjugates everyone to his will, or in 40k where the Necrons are the anti-Warp / Chaos faction, and the C'tan are the equivalents of the Chaos Gods in the material world.
You can see this in Heroes of Might and Magic 5 where necromancers are the main opponents of demons and Death (the third person of the goddess Asha) is just aspect of Order.

[Skirdus]

God remember when the Light was actually a force of good and wasn't just a reskin of literally every other magic force in the WoW universe

This new cosmology kind of sucks, ngl