Steve Danuser: "it's a little unclear how Necromancy works"

[Nnyco]

He literally explained how it worked, iunno where you got your quote from. But then this is mmo-c gotta hate on danuser anytime you can, right?

[Feanoro]

So much for the "its all planned years in advance" excuse.

I don't know which is worse, that they said that with straight faces, or that their tireless defenders actually bought it.



WoW lore has become a source of tragic comedy now. You pay attention to see the next train crash and laugh.

Daloser: "Duh, an expansion about death and I don't know how necromancy works. Oh well, back to wanking over mah kween Sylvie!"

[Progenitor Aquarius]

This Danuser is a very interesting person. His writing gives me a lot to think. I believe actually none apart the First Ones know the correct cosmology chart. I went to the ring to transference in Oribos and opened map. The flooring was a star symbol with each edges equal. I think that this was supposed to be the True Order. The chart Brokers have is quite similar but it’s still not it because it places life and death above all. Titans chart was quite alright but it got altered already by Sargeras betrayal. I will laugh if The Jailer will screw himself over at the end because First Ones design cannot be broken. He wants to dominate in death realm but it can’t exist without life same as void can’t exist without light. The Forbidden knowledge he wants is Void and might anger the Void because they can be the First Ones too. Would love to see him being slapped by one of their gross tentacles straight in his face. It all just shows the greed that the First Ones did not anticipate in their design to start with.

[Triceron]

daloser is unclear on how his own ass works.

But at least he will address it in future content

[exochaft]

I don't know which is worse, that they said that with straight faces, or that their tireless defenders actually bought it.

I don't think that there's any doubt they they plan things out in advance, but how much and how thoroughly they plan things out in advance is another matter entirely. A couple years prior to Shadowlands release, they could've easily said "Alright, for 9.0 expansion, we're doing to the realm of death, and Sylvannas is going to take us there!" That stills leaves a TON of work to make that narrative work well.

Honestly, I think this entire story arc that we're on could work... but it's just not being executed and implemented properly. One huge issue is that the story is insanely rushed, so nothing feels natural as much of what is needed to convey motivations and good storytelling gets cut. Additionally, way too much of the lore that matters is NOT in the game anymore, you have to wait until books are released (some of which are released *after* the events occur in-game). The irony is that what lore makes it into the game has no connection to the player, where we're always the bystander and never involved or invested to the point where it matters.

[Unholyground]

It uses harvested life energy to pull a soul into a non living vessel, most times only a fragment of the soul.

[Magical Mudcrab]

A lot of people are still thinking of the Shadowlands as a spiritual realm, analogous to the afterlife realms of most religions and so forth. In terms of the WoW cosmology, the Shadowlands (like the Twisting Nether) is actually a real and physical place - basically a different plane akin to the elemental planes like the Firelands or Deepholm, and while it has different rules it is functionally material. As for Maldraxxus and Necromancy, it seems to function pretty much the same as it does in our (the PC's) universe, except with the caveat that destruction of the soul is permanent in the Shadowlands, as there is nowhere else for souls to go unlike in our universe (where they shift to the Shadowlands after a time). Construct bodies appear to protect and preserve the soul to a degree, making it possible for them to be transferred from construct to construct. What's more confusing to me is individuals like Draka, Vashj, or Mograine - who appear to be themselves, more or less how they were in life, and not really constructs like the various abominations or other beings in Maldraxxus who look like more typical undead.

Necromancy in the Shadowlands is more about giving an entity additional armor and/or weaponry via housing them in a weapons platform as opposed to just restoring them to physicality after death. To the same extent, you could say the Kyrians are themselves Necromantic constructs of a sort, in that they are new bodies or forms created to house the souls of those judged to Bastion by the Arbiter. Same with Venthyr who were previously mortals. I would've probably not reused the term "Necromancy" for what the Maldraxxi do in favor of another term like Soulsmithing or Spiritshaping - which doesn't have the same connotations as the Necromancy we're used to and more accurately describes what the Maldraxxi are actually doing with their constructs.

What if it isn't as complicated as we're making it out to be and there isn't a meaningful distinction between the various types of Maldraxxi or even more generally the denizens within the Shadowlands. Perhaps because we are in a realm where your body is essentially your soul, as can be seen most evidently via characters like Uther whose forms bear their souls scars, you have an instance where reuse of them in the form of abominations and other constructs isn't so much resurrection but an amalgamation of souls (think something similar to Thaddius), and while either process (either using parts for construction or true reanimation of the soul) requires anima to undertake, as everything appears to in the afterlife, it may be that certain individuals are not able to be resurrected with anima efficiently. If that were the case, it could stand to reason that perhaps the reason why we won't see major lore characters return is simply because they are too impactful to return to life (if it is tied to the anima they brought with them to the Shadowlands or another factor in their existence), and it could be an explanation as to why unnamed grunts can be reanimated on a whim but individuals like Margrave Krexus could not.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

relatives...
the feminazi woke writer who wrote pre-SL shit novel is a cousin of one of current blizz higher ups,

Was this ever backed up by any thing other then two people sharing a last name or is it still just people being overly obsessed and jumping at shadows?

[Aucald]

What if it isn't as complicated as we're making it out to be and there isn't a meaningful distinction between the various types of Maldraxxi or even more generally the denizens within the Shadowlands. Perhaps because we are in a realm where your body is essentially your soul, as can be seen most evidently via characters like Uther whose forms bear their souls scars, you have an instance where reuse of them in the form of abominations and other constructs isn't so much resurrection but an amalgamation of souls (think something similar to Thaddius), and while either process (either using parts for construction or true reanimation of the soul) requires anima to undertake, as everything appears to in the afterlife, it may be that certain individuals are not able to be resurrected with anima efficiently. If that were the case, it could stand to reason that perhaps the reason why we won't see major lore characters return is simply because they are too impactful to return to life (if it is tied to the anima they brought with them to the Shadowlands or another factor in their existence), and it could be an explanation as to why unnamed grunts can be reanimated on a whim but individuals like Margrave Krexus could not.

I do think a spirit-like soul is the default state for formerly mortal entities who've arrived at the Shadowlands via judgment in Oribos, although the manners in which these souls getting physical bodies works seems not to be nailed down very well (or at least not thoroughly explained). Take for instance Bastion as per your example above. We know that former Azerothians arrive in Basion as what looks like ghosts, spirit-like beings, who go through the various processes to deal with their former mortal memories and become Aspirants and so forth. Their Kyrian forms generally have no bearing on who or what they were in life, except for Uther, who aside from being blue-skinned is pretty much an exact replica of what he looked like in life, even to the point of being aged, having his full beard, and so forth. The Maldraxxi by contrast all seem to adopt forms that more suitably fit their desired role among the Necrolords - be it a Lich, an armored undead giant, an abomination, or a Nerubian-like spider. Except Vashj, Draka, and Mograine opt for forms that are basically 1:1 their mortal selves, except for Vashj who opted to remain a Naga as opposed to a Night Elf.

[Airlick]

Am i the only one who thinks practically anyone in the WoW community would be better writers than the ones we have for WoW? They don't have an iota of testosterone on the entire team, and they haven't really added anything special to WoW's story.... but rather deconstructed and made lesser the works of SUPERIOR writers who came before.

If you have to rely on de-constructing someone else's work, rather than building your own narratives... you are a writer in name only.

Danuser isn't even a Danuser in anything but name, let alone a writer.

[Clone]

testosterone

This is how you tell people your opinion is shit.

[Piamonte]

It's a little unclear how most things in WoW currently work, but you have to start somewhere.

necromancy was well explained from a long time ago, its well established lore, i dont know what the fuck is steve danuser thinking.

[Feanoro]

necromancy was well explained from a long time ago, its well established lore, i dont know what the fuck is steve danuser thinking.

Daily reminder that he finds prior lore and continuity constraining.

[qwerty123456]

I know WoW was always story second but its a little disheartening when the stuff like this happens or really the whole way they set up the shadowlands plot when a Chinese F2P mobile game releases a 30 minute video detailing all the thought, lore, and artistry that went into designing a dragon bosses nut sack.

[Mojo03]

What OP says he said: "It's a little unclear how necromancy works."

What he ACTUALLY said: "I agree the wording for that text is unclear. It will be clarified in a future update."

So OP is either a total moron with no reading comprehension skills or he's trolling.

Either is possible in these forums.

[Merin]

I know WoW was always story second but its a little disheartening when the stuff like this happens or really the whole way they set up the shadowlands plot when a Chinese F2P mobile game releases a 30 minute video detailing all the thought, lore, and artistry that went into designing a dragon bosses nut sack.

I just imagine a bulk of the staff just doesn't give a shit. No one on staff made this game, no one on staff created this world and the community has absolutely despised the few attempts at bucking off the old Warcraft shackles so now they're in writing jail forever, using their few moments of lucidity each expansion to push in personal politics or take subtle digs at the playerbase.

WoW is unwilling, professional fanfiction at the moment.

I assume you're comparing it to Genshin? People like Genshin, the people who make Genshin are making what they want to make and aren't whipped and screamed at if Jimmy plays 30 minutes less a day unlike at Activision. I'd assume that makes for a more productive studio.

[GreenJesus]

We see with our own eyes both Rituals and Constructs people returning from death. You linked the quest earlier in the thread regarding needing to double tap what in game are people with lines, so obviously have souls. The Kyrian Abomination quest is premised on the souls staying in the bodies and having their own will as well as being recoverable. It is consistent that non-Maldraxxi who die in the Shadowlands die for real and this has been stated fairly early on. But the Maldraxxus story alludes several times to them being able to come back in another body. Hell, Gharmal's heart is still alive and pumping and you use it as a constantly working power source in the Kyrian story on that premise.

If you really want to give Danuser the benefit of the doubt, and I don't, you can say that we never see a member of the Chosen come back and extrapolate that that's why Krexus and Draka die while the others don't. This would make the explanation make sense and contradict no lore. It would however make the members of the House of the Chosen and the Primus by extension morons for creating an entire group dedicated to abolishing their main advantage.

I still can't believe that the angel knights are powering their order hall using the heart of an abomination. Its just so hilariously bad.

[qwerty123456]

I assume you're comparing it to Genshin? People like Genshin, the people who make Genshin are making what they want to make and aren't whipped and screamed at if Jimmy plays 30 minutes less a day unlike at Activision. I'd assume that makes for a more productive studio.

Yeah they just released a video about all the thought that went into designing Azhdaha.

[Sangris]

As soon as I read Danuser I knew it was some idiocy that was pretty basic and they didn't think through. I was not dissapointed.

Which, in turn, is actually very disappointing.

[voidox]

Making an expansion about the afterlife was a mistake, 9.0 should have been about N'Zoth's Black Empire.

nah, the mistake goes far back as legion's final patch: stuffing 7.3 with argus, titan revival, sargeras, army of the light, legion raid, alleria/turalyon, void stuff and so on all in 1 patch was stupid, cause that right there was a whole new expansion with potential just wasted :/

legion should have ended with a proper velen/draenei conclusion with KJ, a proper lead up to KJ fight and a more complete pushing back of the legion off azeroth. Then legion should have ended with Illidan showing the crystal he has and what it could do.

then the next expansion would be us going on the offensive against a weakened Legion, us invading for the first time. Using the crystal, we could go to legion controlled zones around the cosmos and rebuild the army of the light. The army could actually be an army of different surviving races, than just 1 ship with some draenei. Xe'ra's story and involvement could have been expanded on more, showing more about why she was so desperate and forceful with illidan and wanting to end the war

alleria's story with the void could have been expanded on more, showing why she wanted to delve into the void. Turalyon's past with the army could have been explored in-game. More could have been done with lightforged draenei and azeroth draenei, more with Argus and the story/history/lore there especially for the draenei returning to their home world

titan revival could have been an expansion wide story, reviving each titan one by one with stories for each leading up to the final raid. Sargeras could have been an arthas like expansion villain, showing up everywhere and us having something from him. Instead of how sargeras just showed up at the end of legion and was jailed.

And so much more.

Then you could have a proper BFA after all that focusing on just the fourth war, with meddling by Azshara leading into her own expansion post-BFA. Then in azshara's expansion you bring in Nzoth for his own expansion after that.

the idea with all this is that you keep the story and expansions related to Azeroth, and using characters that have a history and connection with players... instead of the garbage cosmic fanfic that Danuser is retconning into, and his stupid waifu sylvanus