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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    FFXIV player are more toxic and cringe than I expected. Asmongolds fanbase will fit well in this community
    --- snip ---
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-07-20 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Removed Meme Image

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    FFXIV player are more toxic and cringe than I expected. Asmongolds fanbase will fit well in this community
    Honestly you can't really argue with the level of delusion that it requires to think that FFXIV is harder than or even equivalent to Mythic raiding on WoW. And there's always going to be some weird stipulation or caveat like "Well when you factor in that there's no X, Y or Z that WoW has clearly this is harder." or "The number of people clearing raids in WoW is greater than the number of people clearing raids in FFXIV which doesn't have raiding as the focal point to the extent that WoW does so clearly FFXIV is harder."

    Quote Originally Posted by BiggestNoob View Post
    snip
    You say this but a couple of us are getting a lot of toxicity despite praising FFXIV for the areas that it excels in it, but not the areas that it doesn't. :P And truth be told it isn't the FFXIV community that's toxic so much as the people that are in FFXIV because of the streamers that they follow from my experience. I personally only know one toxic FFXIV player, and granted he's extremely toxic, but pretty much everyone that you run into in game is relatively friendly.
    AchaeaKoralin - Are you still out there? | Classic Priest

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    You say this but a couple of us are getting a lot of toxicity despite praising FFXIV for the areas that it excels in it, but not the areas that it doesn't. :P And truth be told it isn't the FFXIV community that's toxic so much as the people that are in FFXIV because of the streamers that they follow from my experience. I personally only know one toxic FFXIV player, and granted he's extremely toxic, but pretty much everyone that you run into in game is relatively friendly.
    That's because it's a bad take. The same thing happened to TheLazyPeon and the toxic streamer who's bad at games. I've done both and savages are easily comparable to most mythic, and generally fairly unforgiving. You can overgear mythic and you can overgear savage, and savage eventually gets echo which makes it easily puggable, which is different to mythic.

    People like to idolize WoW's mythic content, but it's not that hard either. What's hard is going in on the first week and clearing much of it, even with splits and a ton of gear. It'll take most guilds weeks to catch up on gear, but the vast majority still clear it way over the gear the world first guilds are in. If you want a comparable challenge to what they're experiencing, it's ultimates which can't be overgeared, and that's the right comparison, but almost nobody playing WoW ever experiences that, which is why you hear people say ultimates are harder.

    There's not a simple direct comparison because XIV raids tend to be a much more predictable dance, coupled with fast reps and you can quickly progress them with a good group, and you only need 8 people to play well and optimize their play. They're different styles, but the level of responsibility and how much you're punished for mistakes makes up for the more straightforward character. It's not on a few people to have awareness or deal with mechanics.

    But generally speaking, most people don't push savage progression early on and instead pug it, and never step foot in ultimates, so yes, the game isn't really focused around it, but saying it's not got comparable PvE is incorrect. It doesn't have M+, sure, and I'd welcome it, and pretty much everything else is faceroll, but there's also a nice little challenge of doing all the extremes, unreals, and raids with min ilvl, which I'm happy to see streamers who want harder content are doing. The ARR stuff is generally easier because it's been nerfed or is much simpler than later content, but you'll get to see Asmon do them min ilvl later on, and possibly an ultimate before EW comes out.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by awadh View Post
    There's a difference between watching your favourite entertainer play something and listen to his jokes/commentary and playing the actual game itself which you might have zero interest in. You're not watching the game, you're watching the player. The game is just in the background as far as personality entertainers go - look at LIRIK and some other big streamers that always maintain massive numbers regardless of what they play. People watch them, not the game.
    It's a combination of both. I rarely watch asmongold do raids and farm mounts because it's boring but i like watching him quest and do reacts.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by BiggestNoob View Post
    <snip>
    Well it is true... a few pages back that guy and another guy were complaining that Asmon and his community are toxic af and thus they hate they have joined FFXIV. At the same time these 2 people are ironically the most toxic and elitist players in this thread by far lol.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2021-07-20 at 09:59 AM.

  6. #206
    I think the real issue is not the XIV community, its not the WoW community, and no im not trying to be neutral, im being blunt.

    Its that you get bad eggs in peoples camps that think that their game HAS to be better than the other game while not admitting any faults in it in any way or form.

    But over all, personal opinion at least? I PREFER XIV as the game Id over all have more fun playing, over WoW which I used to, but dont.

    This is the problem I fear, yes, you can enjoy both, and you can have a bias, but what I do admit is there is truth in saying that WoW players are increasingly more defencive about WoW's state because only a few people actually enjoy it to the current state its in.

    If they *Didnt* have that issue, then why is it that WoW's player base is actively moving so eagerly to other MMO's lately? The answer? Because WoW at this point in time really has hit the maximum reach of what it could achieve, its glory day is long over, it is not the king of the MMO genre anymore, its fine that it isnt either, id rather have multiple good MMO's than one amazing one that people rave on about being impossibly better than everything else.

    WoW, definatley is *not* the MMO it was, and thats a fact people that defend it just have to admit, the team working on it, are not the same team, the effort is focused on specific niches rather than the universal crowd it once attracted.

    Now, there are rooms for everyone, XIV appeals very heavily to a casual playerbase that are 90% interested in content that is challenging but accessable, WoW, as ill quote zack himself saying:

    "Is more for the supercasual and the super hardcore" which hes right, it appeals to LFR raiders, or Mythic raiders, Normal/Heroic is very niche and very meh to do.

    Frankly you'd be better getting rid of Normal and Heroic entirley and remaking the game around its LFR and Mythic raiding to allow for more variability and shorter raid cycles, and XIV is simply superior when it comes to that element.

    But XIV is weaker in the pvp field, being WoW's biggest reason to stand above it.

    As for WoW's reputations, nah, this is a non argument to me, WoW's alt-friendly content doesnt exist, and its very much a "get on the bandwagon or be left behind" game where XIV is much more able to tailor to you playing 1 char that can progress every class, and if you do infact want an alt, its not that hard to catch up gearing wise.

    What *is* harder however, I will argue, is that Mythics are not as hard as Ultimate.

    Mythic requires alot more vertical progression.

    While Ultimate requires increadably dedicated Horizontal progression, you cannot progress Ultimate just by outgearing it, you have to actually *be* good at the game, to its absoleute maximum, while Mythics, do leave room for forgiveness, and to proove that:

    Once People are geared in full heroic tier Sanctum gear in SHL, then Castle Mythic will be significantly easier, and once they're geared in Mythic Sanctum gear, then Mythic Castle will by comparison, be a cakewalk.

    This is a non debatable truth, you -can- outgear a Mythic, you -can- out progress a Mythic, you -cannot- out progress a Ultimate raid.

    Some argue that isnt a fair argument because Mythics have more bosses, more content to progress, but that also means your getting more loot to make previous content trivial over all, basically, WoW has a much more darksouls approach to its content, while XIV is more like cuphead.

    Cuphead you cant really cheese the game easily, every boss -is- hard, and even with increadable strats you can very easily die to most of them.

    While in WoW, your meant to have that Darksouls style progression where your gear trivalises the previous enemy, you get to a point you can literally 1 shot bosses in Dark Souls, in the same convention, in WoW, you get gear ot the point you can 1 shot bosses that were previously near impossible.

    Its a fairly reasoanble comparison, if you like a cuphead style challenge, XIV is for you, if you like a Darksouls progression, WoW is for you.

    But I am absoleutley going to defend the point ehre that Ultimate is harder, because it is much more unforgiving for the fact you -cannot- cheese it in any way or form, even if you know the best strats for doing so, because there is only 1 way to get an Ultimate right, but multiple ways to scuff a Mythic boss.

  7. #207
    The weebness of it and clunkiness of the gameplay made me turn that crappy game off after about 30mins of gameplay I just could not bear it anymore. It’s just bad, the „cinematics” are not even voiceovered, zones are standard jrpg tunnels, combat feels terrible and the weeb shit is too cringe to stand.
    If I really didn’t want to play WoW rn I’d rather play SWtoR, tESO or hell even Tibia rather than this borderline furry and pedophiliac game.
    S.H.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by BiggestNoob View Post
    One of them only played it to shit on it and get attention. It looks like that actually annoyed his fans more than drawing the attention he wanted. I'll call this the "TheLazyPeon" effect.
    Yeah it's pretty easy to tell when someone goes in with an open mind instead of looking for ways to shit on the things you've already decided beforehand that you hate. Both Q and LP made the same mistake, intentionally or unintentionally.
    If Asmongold were to quit the game tomorrow saying that he gave it a honest try but can't get over certain issues I don't think there would be a lot of backlash because he actually tried. He didn't skip, he learned as he went and played the game like a video game not like it was WoW.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    That's where I think Asmongold is different. He's set for life, he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to so when you see him enjoying something it's most likely genuine. There are however a lot of streamers who are starting to jump on the bandwagon now that they realize that "oh shit, this game is popular I better get in on that" and them I think it's wise to be more sceptical of.
    Even people who are "set for life" by us normal people's standards can turn that around really fast. You've seen celebrities who went from being millionaires to broke.

    Either way, I still don't understand why anyone thinks he's important. Plebs with webcams who panhandle for money while shit talking other players or the developers. Yet we reference these people. Does... not... compute

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Considering how Asmongold alone massively skyrocketed ffxiv's popularity just shows that ffxiv wasn't as big or popular as people here claim. It's also nowhere close to wow's popularity.
    lol no he didn't. Someone already posted some statistics. The popularity went up a tiny bit.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    lol no he didn't. Someone already posted some statistics. The popularity went up a tiny bit.
    ????

    The statistic clearly shows a never seen before increase on searchs on Google Trends which absolutely speaks volumes.

    Like how tf isn't this clear and massive increase, especially considering that these are % values? https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53289436

    EDIT: Just as a further point to make. This increase is bigger and more dramatic than the last expansion's release and already around the same when FFXIV was at its peak.

    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2021-07-20 at 10:57 AM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Show me one person who has actually done both who says that anything in FFXIV is more challenging / competitve WoW's mythic raiding and keep ignoring that FFXIV has no real PvP to speak of.
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    What weird bias? I've played both games, one is clearly better for the social aspect, and one is clearly better for high end PvE and PvP. You suggesting that anything in FFXIV is equivalent to WoW's mythic raiding in terms of challenge is laughable. Square-Enix's own design philosophy works against that idea.
    what kind of "design philosophy" would that be?
    Has wow a different kind of "design philosophy"?

    Both games have hard and easy modes of the same content.
    Why do you act like you know something, when you clearly do not?

    And... can't you just google yourself? That topic has been discussed a billion of times and every time it's basically the same conclusion.
    FFXIV fights are mechanically more difficult and more unforgiving. Especially the ultimate fights which are basically a 15-20 minute gauntlet. Fucking annoying if you ask me.
    WoW has these too of course, but the encounter mechanics are simpler, yet the classes are more difficult to play.

    In the end it's safe to say that most savage bosses are more difficult than entry level Mythic bosses.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-07-20 at 10:59 AM.

  12. #212
    It just shows the lack if intellect in the normal player, and the comfort they find in following the flow and doing the same as their authority/parent figure. Naturally this is "coincidentally" something they started doing out of boredom if you ask them.. a few weeks after a wow patch.....

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    Too many of the developers with genuine passion left WoW. It's not going to bounce back as it's been in a slow but steady decline for a while now. Will it 'die' in the typical sense? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure there's a few ways to milk money out of it still without necessarily having to shut it down.

    What makes me think it might die for real is that they also dropped the ball with Overwatch and don't seem to have much of note on the horizon to put them on the map in the same way some other big companies do.
    I always wonder where people who do not belong to the developer team of a game but somehow know who in the team is passionate or not about the game they are developing. At this point it's extremely likely, given how old the game is, that many of the devs are people that grew up playing the game and their passion was such that they decided to work towards joining the team. But I'm also just guessing.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    ????

    The statistic clearly shows a never seen before increase on searchs on Google Trends which absolutely speaks volumes.

    Like how tf isn't this clear and massive increase, especially considering that these are % values? https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53289436

    EDIT: Just as a further point to make. This increase is bigger and more dramatic than the last expansion's release and already around the same when FFXIV was at its peak.

    Also adding to that: Looking at the statistics it's pretty clear that FFXIV is only truly popular in Japan and to a much lesser extent in Singapore and other east asian countries. But in the West its popularity was skyrocketed by a single streamer, because the game isn't nearly as popular over here as people here make it out to be. Also just before anyone implies something: I am not saying anything against the game or don't think it's successful, but it is how it is: Asmongold alone made FFXIV a bigger game.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    ????

    The statistic clearly shows a never seen before increase on searchs on Google Trends which absolutely speaks volumes.

    Like how tf isn't this clear and massive increase, especially considering that these are % values? https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53289436

    EDIT: Just as a further point to make. This increase is bigger and more dramatic than the last expansion's release and already around the same when FFXIV was at its peak.

    An increase in searches doesn't mean increase in popularity. There were very likely people hearing about it and going "wtf... no way... please don't be true" and searching for it.

    People really need to stop pretending these webcam plebs do/did more than they really did. Giving people false accolades is a very strange thing to do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Asmongold alone made FFXIV a bigger game.
    No... no he didn't.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainV View Post
    We cant deny, while XIV is an amazing game, what has undeniably boosted its popularity, is the streamers.
    Not saying it's not true, but how are you objectively able to determine this?

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Not saying it's not true, but how are you objectively able to determine this?
    The same exact way they determine that streamers "do so much for the game"... placebo effect.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    The same exact way they determine that streamers "do so much for the game"... placebo effect.
    Game companies pay streamers millions of dollars to stream their game. I think their market analysts know more than your gut.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    Game companies pay streamers millions of dollars to stream their game. I think their market analysts know more than your gut.
    We all have our theories about these webcam folk and what/who is paying them. And we also have no market analysts here. We have streamer fans grasping at straws trying to pretend the person they watch does/did more than they actually did by making outrageous claims.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    We all have our theories about these webcam folk and what/who is paying them. And we also have no market analysts here. We have streamer fans grasping at straws trying to pretend the person they watch does/did more than they actually did by making outrageous claims.
    It's not a theory lol. It's a rule on Twitch that if your stream is sponsored you need to have #ad in the stream title. There's fuck tons of sponsored streams literally every single day on Twitch and it's plain to see because it's transparent.

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