About Galakrond and Deathwing

[darkoms]

I have noticed that many people believe that Galakrond is stronger than Deathwing and their whole argument is that Galakrond is just... big and can eat or step on Deathwing if the Lich King resurrects Galakrond. Do I understand correctly that according to your logic, any dinosaur or kraken is stronger than Sylvanas? Malfurion? Azshara? Illidan? That is, if i ask you who will win - King Krush or Azshara, you say that King Krush can just have a snack or step on Azshara? I mean, Mannoroth was bigger than Azshara and he chose not to fight her. Am I correct in understanding that, according to your logic, size is a more important advantage than enormous magical power?



Let's talk about magic. Galakrond knows how to raise the dead. Cool. Deathwing is the master of arcane, earth and fire and void. He knows how to literally lift and destroy mountains, in ancient times he changed the landscape of Azeroth to help the younger races. He is such a powerful mage that he was able to cast a powerful spell on Korialstrasz (a powerful mage in himself) under Malygos's nose and Malygos did not even notice it. And Deathwing also has such a powerful spell as

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Endless_Hunger

Galakrond literally has nothing to do against such magic, even Korialstrasz barely survived.

Also, I can't help but mention the breath of Deathwing. In one of the quests, you must use a tiny part of Deathwing's power to burn the bones of black dragons so that the Scourge does not resurrect them. Do you know where these bones lay? In lava. That is, literally the breath of Deathwing is much more hotter than lava, he would burn the resurrected Galakrond in a few minutes. Not to mention, Deathwing can just, you know, fly (Galakrond was so big at the end of his life that he could no longer fly due to his weight) and pour fire on Galakrond. And not to mention the fact that Galakrond will not even be able to hit him if he wants to, because despite his huge size, Deathwing is a very fast and agile dragon (although rather Deathwing will still destroy Galakrond with magic, and with his breath, but still not less).





Another ridiculous argument is that it took 5 Aspects to defeat Galakrond. Actually, it took 5 proto-dragons and a weakened Tyr(The Chronicle indicated that the Titan Keepers became weaker after the war with the Old Gods and the ordering of Azeroth) to defeat Galakrond. They weren't Aspects back then (and in terms of size, they got MUCH bigger after they became Aspects). Or that if the Lich King resurrects Galakrond, Galakrond will become even stronger for receiving the icy and necrotic powers of the Lich King. It won't help. When Khadgar confronted Deathwing, he noticed that ice spells did not work at all against Deathwing due to the fact that his body is filled with lava, he literally cannot be frozen (or chilled). Necrotic breath (Galakrond possessed it when he was alive, but not the fact that he would have possessed it after death) also does not help, since Kalecgos noticed that even an extreme amount of arkaina, which should have simply blown up any living creature, will not help against Deathwing from- for its incredible regeneration. Therefore, the Dragon Soul was needed. Indeed, Deathwing can be killed with massive physical damage, as we saw in the End Time. The problem is, we have no idea what happened there. Blizzard stated in an interview that after the victory, the Old Gods simply abandoned Deathwing as he did what they wanted and ordered him to kill himself. Most likely in this future, Nzoth simply took the powers he gave him and allowed Deathwing to kill him. And in the vision of Ysera, he was generally killed by Chromatus (who is clearly stronger than Galakrond).



Grommash's grandfather killed 6 very powerful gronns, and this despite the fact that he did not even have magical abilities, he simply killed them because he was a good warrior. Or this ogre https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Gorgog_the_Gronnslayer. He used magic to kill the Gronns, although he was much smaller than them. Still think size in Warcraft means something?

[spalernTJ]

Bahamut >>>

[chrisisvacant]

There are probably many more reasons people provide to explain why they think Galakrond is more dangerous. You're singling out the low hanging fruit and developing some huge post about it when you could just ask those folks directly.

[Rozz]

This is just another Azshara vs Aegywnn/Jaina issue. There is no telling how Galakrond would fare against modern magic and he was despatched by choaking on a rock.

I'd want to wager the empowered aspects should be able to solo him individually, but they're about as effective as a gun in an action movie.

[Candy Cough]

Deathwing destroyed the world by simply exiting the crust and needed the powers of the titans to be destroyed

Galakrond choked on a rock

You choose

[mickybrighteyes]

Deathwing destroyed the world by simply exiting the crust and needed the powers of the titans to be destroyed

Galakrond choked on a rock

You choose

power scaling kind of fucks characters over. Look at Jaina. One arc she's chucking tsunami at nations, the next she's crippled by her own depression. Tyrande hurling moons to wreck armies... trounced by a dude with a bow and a couple friends who ARE NOT known for combat power... oh and multiple millenia combat experience yet out tactict'ded by a young human lord... and then yeah big brain move to choke something that canonically doesn't need to breath...

Or how about the time a prominent undead character went out by... get this... losing his head. Like seriously what kind of UNDEAD kicks the bucket by JUST losing their head. Like we haven't had whole quest arcs with a dismembered thing ranting about finding their body parts.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Galakrond was so big at the end of his life that he could no longer fly due to his weight

This is going to sound super dismissive, but this is the only thing that's probably relevant. Galakrond likely would not be able to fly in undeath. That's the end of the fight. One of the most powerful tactics that can be used by dragons are hit-and-run tactics, deny the opponent the ability to actually engage you while you use your breath weapon to attack them from range. Even being as charitable as we can be and say that Galakrond may end up being more physically imposing than characters like Deathwing, it doesn't matter if he cannot leverage his strength. In an actual fight it's a mismatch unless Galakrond is shown to have some ability to either force opponents to the ground or has some powerful ranged ability.

Still think size in Warcraft means something?

It does, it's just not everything. Size confers mass, which implies strength needed to move this mass. When you are orders of magnitude larger than someone else, the options they have to defend themselves are limited. I think a good example of this can be seen in WoD where Grommash and Mannoroth have their "rematch". By every measure, Mannoroth is more dangerous. Mannoroth can use magic, Mannoroth has more experience in combat, Mannoroth's physical strength easily outclasses Grommash's, and Grommash is forced to flee and use an Iron Star to try and momentarily stop Mannoroth. However, what happened? Mannoroth was killed due to his overconfidence; he wasn't positioned to defend his head (likely) because he didn't consider the current problem a threat and Grommash took advantage of this.

The difference in size can be overcome by cunning or other kinds of power (i.e.: magic vs. physical might, for example), but it does confer some benefit in combat.

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Deathwing destroyed the world by simply exiting the crust and needed the powers of the titans to be destroyed

To clarify, it's because he broke the World Pillar, which I believe he was able to do because of his empowerment of the Aspect of Earth. It is also likely something that individuals like Therazane or groups of shaman like the Earthen Ring could likely do, though given they don't want the Plane of Earth to collapse into Azeroth it isn't something they would do.

[mickybrighteyes]

There is literally no point in arguing over what if's and what about's in fictional lore with fictional characters with inconsistent descriptions of strength and impact.

Sir, this is the lore subforum.... what do you think happens here?

[darkoms]

power scaling kind of fucks characters over. Look at Jaina. One arc she's chucking tsunami at nations, the next she's crippled by her own depression. Tyrande hurling moons to wreck armies... trounced by a dude with a bow and a couple friends who ARE NOT known for combat power... oh and multiple millenia combat experience yet out tactict'ded by a young human lord... and then yeah big brain move to choke something that canonically doesn't need to breath...

Or how about the time a prominent undead character went out by... get this... losing his head. Like seriously what kind of UNDEAD kicks the bucket by JUST losing their head. Like we haven't had whole quest arcs with a dismembered thing ranting about finding their body parts.

When Jaina wanted to drown Orgrimmar, she had a super powerful artifact.

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This is going to sound super dismissive, but this is the only thing that's probably relevant. Galakrond likely would not be able to fly in undeath. That's the end of the fight. One of the most powerful tactics that can be used by dragons are hit-and-run tactics, deny the opponent the ability to actually engage you while you use your breath weapon to attack them from range. Even being as charitable as we can be and say that Galakrond may end up being more physically imposing than characters like Deathwing, it doesn't matter if he cannot leverage his strength. In an actual fight it's a mismatch unless Galakrond is shown to have some ability to either force opponents to the ground or has some powerful ranged ability.



It does, it's just not everything. Size confers mass, which implies strength needed to move this mass. When you are orders of magnitude larger than someone else, the options they have to defend themselves are limited. I think a good example of this can be seen in WoD where Grommash and Mannoroth have their "rematch". By every measure, Mannoroth is more dangerous. Mannoroth can use magic, Mannoroth has more experience in combat, Mannoroth's physical strength easily outclasses Grommash's, and Grommash is forced to flee and use an Iron Star to try and momentarily stop Mannoroth. However, what happened? Mannoroth was killed due to his overconfidence; he wasn't positioned to defend his head (likely) because he didn't consider the current problem a threat and Grommash took advantage of this.

The difference in size can be overcome by cunning or other kinds of power (i.e.: magic vs. physical might, for example), but it does confer some benefit in combat.

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To clarify, it's because he broke the World Pillar, which I believe he was able to do because of his empowerment of the Aspect of Earth. It is also likely something that individuals like Therazane or groups of shaman like the Earthen Ring could likely do, though given they don't want the Plane of Earth to collapse into Azeroth it isn't something they would do.

Grommash won because he distracted Mannoroth and unexpectedly attacked, striking him in the head with an ax. You have to compare this to Azshara and Mannoroth.
Mannoroth is bigger and physically stronger, but he realized that he was nothing compared to Azshara, despite the fact that he actually wields magic.
Galakrond won't stand a chance against Deathwing (even if he can fly) simply because Galakrond can't do anything against magic or even Deathwing's breath. Deathwing simply or simply burn him with his breath (which is much hotter than lava) or turn him to stone, or use Endless Hunger, and so on.

[Athorha]

When Jaina wanted to drown Orgrimmar, she had a super powerful artifact.

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Grommash won because he distracted Mannoroth and unexpectedly attacked, striking him in the head with an ax. You have to compare this to Azshara and Mannoroth.
Mannoroth is bigger and physically stronger, but he realized that he was nothing compared to Azshara, despite the fact that he actually wields magic.
Galakrond won't stand a chance against Deathwing (even if he can fly) simply because Galakrond can't do anything against magic or even Deathwing's breath. Deathwing simply or simply burn him with his breath (which is much hotter than lava) or turn him to stone, or use Endless Hunger, and so on.

If either galakrond or deathwing came back they would be inclined to be different than their past conceptions so comparing the power level creep of someone we've seen in game for decades versus someone who hasn't been writtenly empowered is cherry picking your fights.

Unless you're arguing about in past time power levels. But if such were the case and you were comparing past levels of dw and galakrond, as they existed and experienced power creep simultaneously... obviously galakrond wins.

Galakrond empowered/resurrected by anything would probably stomp anything azeroth has ever created.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Grommash won because he distracted Mannoroth and unexpectedly attacked, striking him in the head with an ax. You have to compare this to Azshara and Mannoroth.
Mannoroth is bigger and physically stronger, but he realized that he was nothing compared to Azshara, despite the fact that he actually wields magic.

Yeah, as I said, size does confer strength, but can be overcome through a myriad of means.

Galakrond won't stand a chance against Deathwing (even if he can fly) simply because Galakrond can't do anything against magic or even Deathwing's breath. Deathwing simply or simply burn him with his breath (which is much hotter than lava) or turn him to stone, or use Endless Hunger, and so on.

I think we agree on this, but the point I was making was more that it doesn't matter what we speculate regarding Galakrond's ability to resist Deathwing's magic because Deathwing wins by virtue of being able to attack from range anyhow. Even if we assumed that Galakrond was superior to Deathwing physically, any debate on an actual encounter can just default to whether Galakrond could counter Deathwing's ability to attack from range while flying, and the answer seems to be no. Galakrond loses by default, regardless of any subsequent discussion.

[darkoms]

If either galakrond or deathwing came back they would be inclined to be different than their past conceptions so comparing the power level creep of someone we've seen in game for decades versus someone who hasn't been writtenly empowered is cherry picking your fights.

Unless you're arguing about in past time power levels. But if such were the case and you were comparing past levels of dw and galakrond, as they existed and experienced power creep simultaneously... obviously galakrond wins.

Galakrond empowered/resurrected by anything would probably stomp anything azeroth has ever created.

Chromatus will eat Galakrond, lol.
Chromatus>Aspect>Galakrond

[StationaryHawk]

Deathwing underwent a training arc off-screen in order to play his role as Catacylsm's main antagonist, and if Galakrond returned to relevance in any capacity the writers would absolutely do the same for him.

[Revamp Man]

Ok
Galakrond vs deathwing

Size
Deathwing:
larger than the other aspects
Comparative to the length of 4 sky ships based on the spine fight
Large enough to use the Wyrmrest temple as a perch

Galakrond:
His skeleton is almost the size of the zone
Described as so large he inhaled other proto-drakes
Seen using a mountain as a perch
Mouth large enough to bite a titan keeper’s hand


Magic:
Deathwing:
Not a master of the void
Has draconic magic
Has the power of the dragon soul which held the power of the other aspects
Given the power of the earth warden so has power over the earth
Literally so powerful due to magic his body was breaking apart

Galakrond:
Can eat dragons and turn them into his undead servants
Has magic resistance and powerful breath
Absorbs magic used against him
His remains were so corrupted by his magic and hatred that he was able to corrupt power magical items within range given enough time
His necrotic powers were also effecting the world around him

Weaknesses:
Deathwing
Magic from the dragon soul
Body is unstable
Flying over a hole


Galakrond:
Weak to a rock being shoved down his throat
Literally just that

[darkoms]

Ok
Galakrond vs deathwing

Size
Deathwing:
larger than the other aspects
Comparative to the length of 4 sky ships based on the spine fight
Large enough to use the Wyrmrest temple as a perch

Galakrond:
His skeleton is almost the size of the zone
Described as so large he inhaled other proto-drakes
Seen using a mountain as a perch
Mouth large enough to bite a titan keeper’s hand


Magic:
Deathwing:
Not a master of the void
Has draconic magic
Has the power of the dragon soul which held the power of the other aspects
Given the power of the earth warden so has power over the earth
Literally so powerful due to magic his body was breaking apart

Galakrond:
Can eat dragons and turn them into his undead servants
Has magic resistance and powerful breath
Absorbs magic used against him
His remains were so corrupted by his magic and hatred that he was able to corrupt power magical items within range given enough time
His necrotic powers were also effecting the world around him

Weaknesses:
Deathwing
Magic from the dragon soul
Body is unstable
Flying over a hole


Galakrond:
Weak to a rock being shoved down his throat
Literally just that

Where did you get the information about Galakrond's magic resistance and absorbs magic?
And in the veins of Deathwing, the Void literally flows, giving him regeneration. For some reason, it seems to me that if there is literally a Void inside you, you are good at this magic.

[Mehrunes]

You already made this thread before. More than once, actually.

Anyway, anyone saying Galakrond would win is just wrong. And it's not even about whether he could even fly to reach Deathwing or not (being reduced to just bones would have shaved a significant part of his mass). Charge of the Aspects made it clear that neither normal magic (even if the scale of the attack is immense) nor physical attacks had any tangible effect Deathwing. He couldn't even be destroyed as he'd just regenerate.

He had to be unmade by the one thing that could hurt him, i.e. the Dragon Soul charged with "his" essence. Which required a bunch of lore-bending bullshit where Thrall charging it counted as it being infused with Deathwing's power, because being a Shaman is totally the same thing as having Titan-gifted Earth Warder powers. And where it also doesn't matter which "Earth Warder" does the infusion for it to work on Deathwing. Digression aside, Alexstrasza even stated that if every living mortal was thrown at Deathwing it still wouldn't have mattered without the Dragon Soul.

[darkoms]

You already made this thread before. More than once, actually.

Anyway, anyone saying Galakrond would win is just wrong. And it's not even about whether he could even fly to reach Deathwing or not (being reduced to just bones would have shaved a significant part of his mass). Charge of the Aspects made it clear that neither normal magic (even if the scale of the attack is immense) nor physical attacks had any tangible effect Deathwing. He couldn't even be destroyed as he'd just regenerate.

He had to be unmade by the one thing that could hurt him, i.e. the Dragon Soul charged with "his" essence. Which required a bunch of lore-bending bullshit where Thrall charging it counted as it being infused with Deathwing's power, because being a Shaman is totally the same thing as having Titan-gifted Earth Warder powers. And where it also doesn't matter which "Earth Warder" does the infusion for it to work on Deathwing. Digression aside, Alexstrasza even stated that if every living mortal was thrown at Deathwing it still wouldn't have mattered without the Dragon Soul.

Yes I remember. In the previous thread, I just asked why people think so, in this I wrote a post with arguments.

You are also right about Thrall. As Thrall himself noted, he received these powers only after Fandral divided his spirit into 4 parts and sent it to the Elemental Planes. In fact, Deathwing's servant accidentally created a weapon against him.

[Revamp Man]

Where did you get the information about Galakrond's magic resistance and absorbs magic?
And in the veins of Deathwing, the Void literally flows, giving him regeneration. For some reason, it seems to me that if there is literally a Void inside you, you are good at this magic.

Then galakrond is good at titan Magic because he ate Tyr’s weapons and hand

[TheFirstOnes]

Bahamut >>>

1. Irrelevant.

2. Deathwing literally slaughters him.

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On topic: Nozdormu would slaughter Galakrond. Let alone Deathwing.

Maybe if Galakrond was Mawsworned in the future, then sure, maybe he'd win. But that's it.

[Triceron]

So the thing about lore....


It's fiction, therefore they can make whatever shit up about it and make Galakrond as powerful as weak as they want.

If they have need to bring him back in the story as a major threat, then they're gonna give him all the reasons you need to know he's a threat. Just like Zovaal came out of literally no where and became super powerful, or Sylvanas got super powerful, or Tyrande got super powerful. And they're all gonna have whatever weaknesses they want to give em too, like Elune taking away Tyrande's power, or Zovaal zapping Sylvanas, or Dragon Soul being a weakness for any and all Dragons, even Deathwing.


Yeah.