The Asmongold Effect

[Graeham]

Maybe we're looking at two different official forums.

I've been on there for a long time and the official forums along with Reddit are by far the worst places to have a conversation about the game. I feel so bad for all the newer players I've seen berated and harassed. I browse a lot of subreddits and I'm also a moderator in one of the biggest subreddits... the FFXIV one is the most downvote-happy one I've browsed. And it's not even by a little bit.

I've seen the same problems, though I'm not saying it's great - just that I think it's the lesser of three rotten apples.

If you post there a lot, maybe you've seen me - I post as Theodric there, though I mostly stick to the general discussion sub forum these days.

[Stanelis1]

I ve been playing ffxi before I played wow back in the day, as such I was invited and took part in ffxiv's v1.0 alpha.

Even during 1.0 alpha when the game was unplayable (and remained so after release), the majority of posters on the alpha forum would tell people the game was fine and that "it was only an alpha".

There is still the ideology today on ffxiv official forums and on r/ffxiv. Ffxiv has a decent story and artistic direction but has always been flawed on a gameplay standpoint. Furthermore, it could have been vastly improved obver the years (but the game was never improved). Namely the dungeons could have been less linear, there could have been more class gameplay customization (talents), gearing could have been less boring, etc.

So when I see people flocking to ffxiv, coming from wow, I can t help scratching my head. Because yeah shadowland isn t peak wow, but ffxiv sure is wow with even wordt problems in the gameplay department.

[TheRevenantHero]

I tried this game, because the people of Moonguard were talking about how Asmongold moved to FF14, so I gave it a try....What a piece of crap this game is!. For real, people moved from WoW to this game?

You try to say FFXIV is trash but then you play WoW lmao

[Val the Moofia Boss]

when I see people flocking to ffxiv, coming from wow, I can t help scratching my head. Because yeah shadowland isn t peak wow, but ffxiv sure is wow with even wordt problems in the gameplay department.

Eh, FFXIV doesn't do anything gameplay wise particularly well (QoL features aside like being able to play every job on a single character) and there are things I wish it would do better, but it doesn't have the crippling negatives WoW has been suffering from for years (ie raid or die game design where everything is about doing chores to gear up to do the latest raid tier and everything else is sorely neglected, entire questlines and instanced content being removed from the game, etc).

[Eli85]

There is still the ideology today on ffxiv official forums and on r/ffxiv. Ffxiv has a decent story and artistic direction but has always been flawed on a gameplay standpoint. Furthermore, it could have been vastly improved obver the years (but the game was never improved). Namely the dungeons could have been less linear, there could have been more class gameplay customization (talents), gearing could have been less boring, etc.

So when I see people flocking to ffxiv, coming from wow, I can t help scratching my head. Because yeah shadowland isn t peak wow, but ffxiv sure is wow with even wordt problems in the gameplay department.

Dungeons have been linear across the genre for years now. You could argue that WoW dungeons are "less linear" but that's really splitting hairs. Honestly, offering branching paths to the same goal, or allowing (in small cases) a group to do bosses in a different order, does not make it less linear. So it's weird to me, in 2021, to complain about linear dungeons, when literally every MMO developers have embraced linear dungeons, because for the mass audience it only causes problems when they're truly non-linear.

The lack of gameplay customization, as you put it, is one of XIV's strengths, honestly. I absolutely love the fact that I can level a job to cap, get gear for that job, and now I can do any end game content that I want at any difficulty level. Gear is gear. It's great. I don't want to go back to having to run sims, read expansive guides, grind currency, grind content that bores me etc.

A lot of the appeal that the people flocking to XIV (and other games) see is that there is compelling gameplay beyond World of SystemCraft. Not that one is inherently better than the other, but I think people breathe a sigh of relief when they realize that they don't have to do endless chores just to participate competitively in the end game.

[xpsync]

I tried this game, because the people of Moonguard were talking about how Asmongold moved to FF14, so I gave it a try....What a piece of crap this game is!. For real, people moved from WoW to this game?

Hey whoa, dem be fight'in words round dees parts, you've unknowingly triggered the, no reasoning, closed minded, tunnel vision, brainwashed white knight patrol.

I posted this in a wow is dead thread: Which lmao, but now seems fitting here.

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What i find comical is that these so called "wow refugees" whom are now in makeshift tents (ffxiv) are so convinced wow is an empty dead no one plays shell? They have truly brainwashed themselves to believe this. Which wow is the prime butter that pays what 4k to 5k blizz employees, yeah it's dead alright lol.

They are wow vets, so for people so proud of their mmorpg ffxiv and say is so great, a place where players just blow sunshine up each others asses, greatest community ever to exist, it's just all rainbows and sunshine, sugar and spice and everything nice.

Then why are they so TOXIC AF, VENGEFUL, ANGRY, FILLED WITH RAGE, it's amazing the internal turmoil and hate they exhibit.

UMM HELLO!!!

You are an ffxiv player now; first, why would you care if you're so happy? Second, as a reminder you're an ffxiv player now, this is not how you behave, remember it's all joyful oblivious bliss from now on, it's all about smiles, happy sunny days, beautiful sun ray beams of joy, everyone loves everyone, flowers and love.
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[GreenJesus]

We all have our theories about these webcam folk and what/who is paying them. And we also have no market analysts here. We have streamer fans grasping at straws trying to pretend the person they watch does/did more than they actually did by making outrageous claims.

Look at games like Amongus or fall guys and tell me streamers don't have effect on game sales with a straight face.

[Sangris]

I doubt getting a swarm of drooling 14 year old twitch kids is a good thing for a community.

I honestly wouldn't worry about it too much. If they're acting like asshats they will very quickly find out that they won't get away with the same shit as in WoW and will get a ban.

[Graeham]

Not sure what's 'close minded' about opposing the claim that the game is 'trash'. The game isn't perfect, but neither is it terrible and it's in a far better state than WoW at present.

[GreenJesus]

I ve been playing ffxi before I played wow back in the day, as such I was invited and took part in ffxiv's v1.0 alpha.

Even during 1.0 alpha when the game was unplayable (and remained so after release), the majority of posters on the alpha forum would tell people the game was fine and that "it was only an alpha".

There is still the ideology today on ffxiv official forums and on r/ffxiv. Ffxiv has a decent story and artistic direction but has always been flawed on a gameplay standpoint. Furthermore, it could have been vastly improved obver the years (but the game was never improved). Namely the dungeons could have been less linear, there could have been more class gameplay customization (talents), gearing could have been less boring, etc.

So when I see people flocking to ffxiv, coming from wow, I can t help scratching my head. Because yeah shadowland isn t peak wow, but ffxiv sure is wow with even wordt problems in the gameplay department.

Theres almost never choices with talents in WoW anyway since they are never balanced. At least by not having them, Square Enix can tune the fights easier by not having to test different combinations along with interactions with whatever 50 different borrowed power systems.

[Eli85]

This is the kind of weird "I love XIV for [reason that isn't true at all]" stuff that I find little boggling.

There are definitely stats to think about when gearing, there are definitely currencies to grind, there are definitely guides, and there is definitely content to farm that may or may not be boring.

Maybe you don't do those things, maybe you're not at the point of needing those things, maybe you don't care about those things, etc. But they're definitely there, and people will definitely expect you to be paying attention to them if you want to clear content with them. It's not really any different from most other MMOs in that regard.

It's night and day from other MMOs, and especially WoW.

What currencies do you have to grind in XIV in order to progress your character? Weekly tome stone is the only one, and if you hit the raiding tiers on day 1, you can ignore it, if you so choose (largely due to the fact that raiding gear is better than tome stone gear). In addition, there is no content to farm if you want to progress. There is no Torghast equivalent in XIV. If you're clearing savage, that's all you need to do on a weekly basis; and I don't consider that to be "grinding" or "farming."

Now of course there are things like guides in XIV. There are guides in every game. However, XIV is so intuitive and informative that you do not need to read a single guide to be competent enough in your class to clear content. It's not like WoW where if you're not keeping up with the theory crafters that you're leaving performance on the table. XIV is nowhere near so mathematically intense as that. In fact, on that note, you have to think very little about stats, as most secondary stats that are applicable for your character are relatively equal. That is to say, the performance difference between optimized secondaries and non-optimized secondaries is minute.

Nothing I put in my post is untrue. I just don't think you understood the details.

[Ethas]

I honestly believe he tried the game just to piss Blizz for lulz that is all. And yes, he boosted FF tremendously there is no second opinion about that. The game is just yet another korean like MMO with terrible support and that account creation screen from 80s.

[Echo of Soul]

So there are tomes as a currency, yes. Some of those pieces are BiS. And your relic is your BiS, so yeah, you were doing that grind if you actually wanted your BiS stuff.

The relic is only bis at the end of the expansion when it doesn't matter anymore. Prior to that your BiS weapon comes from raiding.

[dlld]

By the developers own admission they are currently seeing record numbers of players in all regions (of their own previous numbers not compared to other games), but especially in US/EU. The big 'loads' of this xpansion like 5.3 having been out for quite some time and nothing big coming for another 4 months or so it does seem a bit unprecedented in mmo history, it's like if wow suddenly surged past wotlk numbers at the end lull of bfa.

[Selah]

Without a doubt, steamers can influence some people to play a game. Bellular and Matt on their YT channel ended up convincing me to give it a spin after seeing their many discussions. Then I talked to a few of my friends and they gave it a spin and they've quite liked it. I think they metric we could really use right now is one that measures who is trying FFXIV because a streamer or youtuber convinced them to and who is playing because of word of mouth.

[Katchii]

It's night and day from other MMOs, and especially WoW.

What currencies do you have to grind in XIV in order to progress your character? Weekly tome stone is the only one, and if you hit the raiding tiers on day 1, you can ignore it, if you so choose (largely due to the fact that raiding gear is better than tome stone gear).

You really can't ignore the grind if you want to stay current as there's no way you're going to be in all current raid gear week 1 of the raid coming out. In order to supplement the raid gear with other gear upgrades (because again, you're not filling every gear slot with raid gear on week 1) you have to do the tomestone grind.

In addition, there is no content to farm if you want to progress. There is no Torghast equivalent in XIV. If you're clearing savage, that's all you need to do on a weekly basis; and I don't consider that to be "grinding" or "farming."

See above. You have to grind or farm tomestone to continually get gear upgrades until you're able to fill all slots with raid gear. Unless you're totally OK with not getting any upgrades EXCEPT raid gear upgrades, but that's a slightly different discussion.

Nothing I put in my post is untrue. I just don't think you understood the details.

Not outright untrue, just a bit misleading or overstated.

[Necromantic]

Look at games like Amongus or fall guys and tell me streamers don't have effect on game sales with a straight face.

Games like what?

[Short]

traditional marketing has less and less influence on how games are received these days.

i mean, would you rather buy/play a game based on an arbitrary rating from a "games journalist" who pumps there review full off political/social garbage for the failing faceless corporation they work for?

or would you rather buy/play a game based on someones live commentary/gameplay experience?


neither is perfect, but i'm more inclined to take the live streamers opinion at face value than the written hit piece on any dying traditional games media website.

and we can't deny the bump in player interest that large scale streamers like Asmongold can generate.

[Wrecktangle]

I've seen the same problems, though I'm not saying it's great - just that I think it's the lesser of three rotten apples.

If you post there a lot, maybe you've seen me - I post as Theodric there, though I mostly stick to the general discussion sub forum these days.

I've seen and discussed things with you on there, oh wait that was years ago before I was banned LOL.

You try to say FFXIV is trash but then you play WoW lmao

Dude made my day that all my reports finally got you a timeout. You need the break to cool off my friend.

Theres almost never choices with talents in WoW anyway since they are never balanced. At least by not having them, Square Enix can tune the fights easier by not having to test different combinations along with interactions with whatever 50 different borrowed power systems.

I don't agree with this. I can pick between like 3 core builds for my Ret with different playstyles right now and have them all be reasonably well competitive against each other or at the least viable in different situations/content (i.e. max # of buttons, more burst phases for M+, max # of GCDs and maximum burst phase output for heroic farm, and then a balanced approach for progression where there's more uncertainty).

There's 100% absolutely situations where you're right, but I also don't like it when we say there's almost never because that just hasn't been my experience. The talent system needs a lot of love and attention, but it sometimes hits in a decent spot and is a good benchmark. That said they need to learn to devote time to fixing dead talents, or #s buffs to underperforming ones.

It's night and day from other MMOs, and especially WoW.

What currencies do you have to grind in XIV in order to progress your character? Weekly tome stone is the only one, and if you hit the raiding tiers on day 1, you can ignore it, if you so choose (largely due to the fact that raiding gear is better than tome stone gear). In addition, there is no content to farm if you want to progress. There is no Torghast equivalent in XIV. If you're clearing savage, that's all you need to do on a weekly basis; and I don't consider that to be "grinding" or "farming."

To be fair, I'm astronomically casual in both games and I still post up great logs in both. I am also one of the weird ones who actually enjoy torghast... It scratches my ARPG power fantasy itch without being a whole game. I can play as little as I want and still be competitve. I play probably 8-9 hours a week in WoW when I'm raiding mythic. In FF14, I'm also very successful but capping tomes usually annoys me and I usually dislike the content associated with the relics (too mindless for me) so I get annoyed if the weapons actually look good for PLD, which thankfully SB didn't, but ShB did which was annoying. I play probably 6-8 hours a week in FF14 when I'm raiding so pretty similar.

[minteK917]

There is grind in all mmo. The difference now is that FF14 use the TBC system, thats when wow grind respected your time. Grind are mmo bread and butter, but you need to make people feel its either 1) fun to grind or 2) worth their time. There is two type of reward power (gear, power, etc) or cosmetic (transmog, mounts, titles, etc.). MMO evolved a lot, now all of them come down to one thing for the majority of people, they are virtual doll simulator with gameplay. People are on average willing to put more time in grinding the cosmetic, then the power, because the power never last, but the cosmetics do.

This is why more and more people feel wow waste their time. Most of the mandatory grinds are for power and not only that, those grinds outside of the raids are also grinds for power, which in the end most people do for the cosmetic, the mounts, title, the achievement of having done it and the transmog, nobody actually cares about the power. If they want power grind to be the focus again, they need to go back to tbc model. You cant have grinds to open grinds. You need a linear grind upward, right now wow its like a bunch of horizontal grinds to help you grind other grinds.

All those horizontal grinds also destroy the will for people to put time into alt. FF14 solved that by making you do all thing on one character, in essence, its like if wow just made rep, all special grind cosmetic, etc account wide. Which they should at this point.

I think wow can easily be fixed. Remove any grind tied to burrowed power, never do these things again. Make the gearing path clear one direction, up. Make it simple, token gears and boss drops, token gear can come from various activities. Tie reputation or any long grind to cosmetics and not any power. Power needs to come entirely from the gear you gain by doing your journey may it be pve or pvp. Make every grind account wide. All reputation, all cosmetic you get, etc. This would greatly reduce player fatigue, this would also remove people having the feeling their time is wasted because they have to log every day to do chores to do what they actually want to do in the game. You dont need people to be logged, you need them to be subbed. When ever they log twice a week or 7 times a week, doesent matter if they stay subbed the same amount of months. Instead of wasting large amount of time forver tweaking all those borrowed power grinds that gets deleted and reworked every expansion. Use the new found free time to develop more side content that will last multiple expansion instead. It is fine to have expansion that only expand whats already in the game, more raids, more pvp zones, rework and add to old zones, etc. Trying to remake the wheel every expansion has a huge impact on quality.